Israel General

[Psycho_5101 10]

Israeli Soldiers Shoot and Kill Fleeing Civilians

This is simply open warfare on civilians, some think thats ok and even celebrate it, this is the new order

REALLY ???

Check your facts before talking mate.

and about celebrating... this is BS ,

We not celebrating DEATH .

and one more thing ...

What you think about this ?

[mistyronin 1181]

Psycho why you compare the Syrian conflict and the Israel-Palestine? First there has been a huge world wide condemnation on the Syrian conflict ( even the NATO countries thought to interven militarily almost a year ago, I guess you read about it ).

Second, the particularity in the Israel-Palestine conflict is the difference on sides casualties.

In a few weeks Israel's Army ( which is supposed to be a proper legit army that follows the international conventions ) killed more than 1500 civilians.

While on the other side Hamas, that as Shay has properly said before, it's considered a terrorist organization has only killed a few dozen Israeli soldiers.

Conclusion, when a proper Army kills hundreds of civilians massively like a terrorist ( committing war crimes according to different International Organizarions, including the UN ), and a terrorist organization kills only dozens of enemy combatants like a proper army... Something it's really wrong there...

Edited August 5, 2014 by MistyRonin

[cozza 24]

atm it seems safer to be in hamas than it is to be a civilian in Gaza.

ohhh look. The situation just got more worse :p

[negah 26]

When the teenagers kids were killed by a terror organization which took the blame the IDF was arresting Hamas operative in the west bank where the murder have been - not Gaza, not a single shot was fired in the West Bank so I don't know where do you get the arresting hundreds and killing everyone.

Just read this Wikipedia article, especially the sequence of events.

Day 8

Twenty-five more Palestinians were arrested at Dura and Dheisheh, bringing the number of detainees to 320, of which 240 are considered Hamas operatives. The number of sites searched mounted to 1,150, of which 1,000 buildings were damaged, the figure including over 750 homes. According to Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Malki Israel had destroyed 150 homes by week's end.

320 is three hundred and twenty and that was only Day 8, and only 240 of them are considered Hamas operatives, its not even proven they are Hamas. 750 homes damaged, 150 destroyed, yeah such a peaceful police investigation.

Day 10

The Palestinian Prisoners' Society named 420 people so far arrested, claimed Israel consistently understated the numbers and refused to disclose where they are detained.

Day 14

Nine youths were injured by tear gas or rubber bullets. Two boys, aged 13 and 14, were arrested in Dura.

Despite the Oslo Accords stipulating coordination with the PA security service for Israeli entry into West Bank Areas in the Area A, in what was called an 'unprecedented move, Israeli units raided the Tunis and Rafidia neighbourhoods of Nablus and Balata refugee camp without prior clearance. 200 homes in Awarta were also raided.

Here you have your hundreds arrested people.

According to Palestinian reports, an elderly man, Ali Abed Jabir, either died during an altercation with Israeli troops who broke into his home while ransacking houses in the village of Haris, or was denied passage for medical treatment after suffering a heart attack.

Ahmad Said Suod Khalid (27), an epileptic, of Ein Beit al-Ma' refugee camp was shot in the abdomen, back, and thigh, for refusing an order to turn back as he insisted on going to a mosque for dawn prayers. Muhammad Ismail Atallah Tarifi (30) was found dead on the roof of a building opposite an Israeli sniper position, an autopsy found he was shot dead by an M16, a rifle in use with the IDF.

Not a single shot fired in the West Bank? No one killed?

Deaths

3 Israelis: Naftali Fraenkel (full name: Yaakov Naftali, 16, from Nof Ayalon), Gilad Shaer (full name: Gilad Michael, 16, from Talmon), Eyal Yifrah (19, from El'ad).

Palestinian: Mohammed Dodeen (15, of Dura), Ahmad Sabarin (20–21, from Jalazone refugee camp), Mustafa Aslan (22, from Qalandiya refugee camp), Mahmoud Atallah (Ramallah), Ahmad Khalid (36, from Ein Beit al-Ma' refugee camp).

Arrest(s) 530 Palestinians[1]

[vilas 477]

Well that is easy to answer.

When the teenagers kids were killed by a terror organization which took the blame the IDF was arresting Hamas operative in the west bank where the murder have been - not Gaza, not a single shot was fired in the West Bank so I don't know where do you get the arresting hundreds and killing everyone.

The guy who is responsible for the murder of the palestinian guy is in jail and waiting a trail - he is facing life in prison.

Then Hamas stated firing rockets on Israel in massive force. Then Israel responds with precise (

I don't know where you get your facts from but they are not right.

you know, the problem is that media in different countries are different way biased

1) in some western countries they do not say when imigrants or Muslims commit something bad, example: i was in Italy in may, i was told by tour-guide, that if we will be robbed or attacked to rob by non-White immigrants, we should not fight, case than we would be accused of racism, sounds weird ?

when in England one of my friends was attacked by Jihad-lover for drinking beer and kissing girl, noone wanted to know about it, when few Skinheads fight back - everyone shouted about it, cause they have big immigrant lobby, when Gypsy killed someone in The Netherland to rob him mp3-plaer, they said crime was commited by ... Pole, well, this Gypsy was NOT Pole, he had Polish citizenship but they called him Pole, while he was not Polish nationality , he was Gypsy...

2) in Poland because of big Jewish lobby, for example noone writes about Palestinian suffering, when Jew will rob someone, noone will write about it, because we have big Jewish lobby, Jewish nationality owners etc.

3) in Russia if skinhead rob someone, noone will tell , if gay will rob someone, every news will show him,

etc. etc. etc.

your country media are also biased too, probably in Israel because of German-business lobby, you heard about "Polish death camps" - reason is simple, German industry do not want Isreal customers to connect word "holocaust' with word "Germany" , so they use fact that my country was occupied by Nazi Germany to call death-camps Polish and to produce movies (this is real scandal) in which instead SS you have Polish army (i know such example of TV movie)

or have you heard about Jews who commit economical crimes abroad and are saved later by state of Israel ? i doubt, your media will not tell about them, cause some of your Rabins say that "non-Jews must be slaves" < yes, there are Rabins who say such things "cause god told so"

so you know,

they on the west do not know about Islamist actions, like in Poland all news i have about Palestine are ... English news

so you know, maybe your media lie ?

do you trust your media ?

cause i do not trust my own country media, they are owned by big corporations, they say that (sorry to use Polish example) :

- there is no crisis, there is no unemployment (we had over 20% unemployment, later 6% of Poles emigrated abroad and they do not want to return) ,

- people want to work, there is plenty of job offers (low paid, but they do not say it)

- Poland has low taxes and low retirement age (west have 60 y.o, Poland has 67, taxes in UK are lower than in PL)

etc.

so do you believe your own media for 100% ? have you ever heard about "Polish death camps" from guys who are dealing German products on Israeli market ;) ?

my media lie, Russia media lie, your media also can lie

and remind that some Rabins spread in the world words like "Jews are to rule the world, non-Jews must be slaves, cause god give Jews superiority" < not only Jihad crazy guys say such moronic stuff , Rabins too,

and one more thing ...

What you think about this ?

you mean Syria war ?

there is difference between bombing hospital and liquidation of 100 000 mad religious fighters,

IDF makes too much collateral damage, having such hightech they have,

But I feel that Hamas is responsible for this war episode and they should be blamed in the first place. I know that this is a never ending story and now more palestinians will seek revenge for what Israel caused them.

Palestinians must understand that Hamas is destruction for them and by supporting Hamas they actually destroy their own future..

nope , look again at video of son of Hamas leader he posted site ago,

those Hamas extremists REALLY DO believe in god/heaven

they do not afraid to die, they do not care about life on earth, they do not take your measure

let me use stupid example,

imagine that you are gay, and i am Jihadist or Catholic i middleages,

you have rifle, i have knife,

i run to slaughter you, you shoot me, than my brother go to slaughter you, you shot him, than next my brother goes... you ask "what is a sense, you harm yourself?"

but you do not understand that "i just want to kill gay, to go to heaven, when god will give me reward and 70 beauty virgins which will be my sex-slaves to f*** them every hour, because i want to go to heaven" (goal is not to survive, goal is to kill and die for cause) ,

you cannot look from YOUR point of view, look from point of view of someone, who believe there is heaven and life after life, so this "earth life is just a step to go to heaven"

so they don't care how much people (including their own) they gonna hurt, because for them life on this planet IS NOT important,

if you are atheist - you believe you live ONCE and THIS LIFE is only precious things you have and this will not repeat, so you try to live the best you can, knowing it is your ONLY ONE life,

but they aren't , religion is irrational,

they do not see they harm Palestinians, they see "we led them to heaven , cause our goal is to kill all non-Jihadists" , study some interviews with ex-Muslims, like this son of Hamas leader, which escaped and which video was shown site ago,

i am from very religious Catholic family, believe me, those people really do not care if they are poor, ill, i know what was in my childhood when i had arguments every Friday, i was not beaten, cause i would fight back, but my grandmother was making me a lot of shout and troubles because i didn't wanted to eat Fish on Friday , because "Christ said to eat fish on friday"

can you imagine such moronic stuff, that someone should eat something BECAUSE OF CALENDAR DATE ? it is pure nonsense, why the f** i must eat fish in friday ? why not saturday ? why i couldn't eat pork sausage on friday ? why?

why in my house every "holy day" there were big arguments and nearly beating because "you do not follow Christ" ?

till my grandma died, there was argument almost every friday, every sunday (that i do not go to church) , till she died she was terrorizing home with her beliefs, the same had my cousins with their mother , the same has my girlfriend etc.

if i was not fighting back, but allow myself to be beaten, they would not see they harm me, but "they do it for my good, so i will go to heaven and avoid eternal condemnation and hell" , for the same reason i cannot visit girlfriend's house - her family, cause we have sex without marriage, and her parents do not want to see me , because in their minds i am hurting my girl when i have sex with her, how can you hurt anyone with orgasm ;) c'mon, it is mad,

what's the fu*** problem to eat ham in Friday ? i still do not understand it although i am 36 y.o. ,

you know what happened when friend of my mother had problem with cancer ? she needed few thousands money for cancer treatment, her mother had such money, but her monther prefered to ... give those money to the church "and let god will help" than to give money to daughter, my mother's friend had to borrow money from bank, cause her own mother said that money should go to church "for god" and "god will cure her" and it was not in middleages, but in XX century,

but this is religion , if not religion, those people in Middle East would limited violence to 20% of what they have now, of course there are national-territorial issues, but religion causes 80% violence there, cause people there believe in their own superiority on both sides, those who say that "this land was promised by god, so it belongs to us" are equal to those who say that "death to infidel"

i personally know one metal-head girl who had to be treated by psychological therapy, because of her family, she had so religious family, that she cried after orgasm, she couldn't have orgasms, cause her mother told that if she doing it without marriage "she nails Jesus to cross again" and this girl couldn't find man till she was 30, because she was afraid of sex , because of stupid religion rules of her family, her mother was calling her sinner all the time etc. so girl had to leave house and escape to another city to avoid visits of her mother "which wanted to help her daughter to reach kingdom of Christ"

we had such metal-head forums in PL about such cases of people mistreated by religious parents, i know many such cases, i had 2 such girlfriends too,

my cousin has kid with woman he don't love, because "condom is sin" , so they not used condom, there is not wanted child suffering, why ? because 2 people believed that condom is sin

Edited August 5, 2014 by vilas

[papanowel 120]

... when Gypsy killed someone in The Netherland to rob him mp3-plaer, they said crime was commited by ... Pole, well, this Gypsy was NOT Pole, he had Polish citizenship but they called him Pole, while he was not Polish nationality , he was Gypsy...

It was in Belgium and the guy is polish if he has this citizenship... nothing wrong about that. There is bad/crazy people in every country.

[mistyronin 1181]

It was in Belgium and the guy is polish if he has this citizenship... nothing wrong about that. There is bad/crazy people in every country.

I understand it the same way. He was a Polish gypsy living in Belgium.

One thing is ethnicity ( culture ) and the other nationality / citizenship ( where it is registered legally, which country will respond for you ).

For instance I'm not a Finnish citizen nor my culture is Finnish, but I'm a permanent EU resident of Finland.

Or one of my friends is culturally an Italian gypsy but his citizenship is Finnish ( because of his father ).

[Psycho_5101 10]

What would you do if you were to live like this for years?

[cozza 24]

I wouldn't go bomb the shit outta thems for starters. That's just gonna cause more rocket attacks in the future.

2012 gaza conflict was to stop Rocket attacks and that did fuck all, because 2 years later the same is happening again. So Israel needs to seriously rethink how they handle there retaliations, because probably in 2 years you will be in this mess again.

So don't tell me what would I do, because you guys in Israel are seriously doing fuck all about it either.

[Psycho_5101 10]

Since 2004 we tryed to find a solution for this mess , but at the end there is no one to talk to... Hamas will only stop if all Israeli citizans will pick up their stuff and leave Israel for good or just die.

Do you really think you got better solution ?

Shoot :)

[mistyronin 1181]

Since 2004 we tryed to find a solution for this mess , but at the end there is no one to talk to... Hamas will only stop if all Israeli citizans will pick up their stuff and leave Israel for good or just die.

Do you really think you got better solution ?

Shoot :)

But Hamas at this point is no kind of menace for Israel, and it hasn't been for a lot of years.

And in the worst of the cases they can be fight one by one, not by destroying residential areas, schools, UN shelters or hospitals.

You talk of Hamas as if it was a big powerful army. But is just a bunch of extremists that are not able to fight with much more than dumb rockets.

[Psycho_5101 10]

You talking like they (Hamas) bunch of teenage punks...

Mabby we should call the cops on them ?

Clearly you have no idea what r you talking about mate.

Check this video pls

sorry for the Hebrew site , but just watch the video

http://news.walla.co.il/?w=%2F2689%2F2772894

I found it on youtube , here you go :

Edited August 5, 2014 by Psycho_5101

[shay_gman 272]

Just read this Wikipedia article, especially the sequence of events.

320 is three hundred and twenty and that was only Day 8, and only 240 of them are considered Hamas operatives, its not even proven they are Hamas. 750 homes damaged, 150 destroyed, yeah such a peaceful police investigation.

Here you have your hundreds arrested people.

Not a single shot fired in the West Bank? No one killed?

Yeah wikipedia.... a prove well of knowledge.

It is not hard to understand from the writing who wrote it. Any death that happened is eleged done by the IDF even if some old dude died from heart attack or another found dead (which happens all the time when they are fighting against each other) .

As I told I'm not trying to convince any one as i'm sure for someone from the outside without understanding of the middle east and arab's culture they sure looks like victims.

Time after time the so called intellectual west was sure he have the answer by supporting the "victims" and bringing "liberty" to middle east by doing so:

The CIA established and trained Al-Qaeda (they were the victims while fighting the USSR)

US supported the muslim brothers in Egypt (they were the victims while Mubarak was in charged).

With the total deconstruction of Iraq the UN open the way for Iran with is's atom plane.

Not to mention the total chaos in Syria because of all of the above and the rise of Daash.

Libya disintegrate to tribes and chose.

Even the fall of the apartheid in south africa led only to tribes war and mass murders.

And I can continue all day with the west thinking that the middle east is freaking switzerland....

It's about time the west will understand - they know nothing about foreign relations especially with countries and regions that are not part of the first world and stay back.

The west take them for victims, again supporting the wrong side.But as I told you before, i'm not afraid. In 20 years when 25% of Europe will be populated with extremist islamist you'll understand as atm from my visits to western europe there are in almost every major city a district that it looks like even the police are afraid to get in, and we all seen Paris burning for 3 days just a few years ago, and decapitating of UK's soldiers in freaking London.

In our "neighborhood" 1800 deaths isn't much when you are fighting asymmetrical war against terror that is shooting from schools and hospitals in one of the most dense places on earth.

But to be honest I don't believe a single world that is coming from the Palestinians about death tolls even now that Gaza have 1800 deaths as they use their death numbers to gain the favor of the world while playing the victims.

[Tonci87 163]

You Israelis don't understand that by your indiscriminate killing you motivate more people to join Hamas!

Do you have any idea how many people lost their friends, their parents, brothers, sisters or kids? All those people now hate you with a burning passion!

You strategy is flawed. You just recruited the suicide bombers of tomorrow.

[mistyronin 1181]

You talking like they (Hamas) bunch of teenage punks...

Mabby we should call the cops on them ?

Clearly you have no idea what r you talking about mate.

Yeah, I clearly have no idea, neither the UN, nor the US, nor any of all the other countries that have issued complains lately. Only the Israel's gov has the real truth... :rolleyes:

The wise late IDF strategy is working flawlessly, I'm sure most of Palestinians are happy with the new surgery incursions and are thinking to isolate Hamas...

I guess you know the sacred tests and so on, so here's a quote that fits perfectly the Israel's gov.:

they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind

[Psycho_5101 10]

[mistyronin 1181]

Psycho, I think that anyone who watches this video will reach the conclusion that the IDF should focus on preparing the defence of the north of Israel instead of keep massacring the Palestinian civilians, which will attract more fighters against Israel.

[vilas 477]

truth lies in between, in the middle

- neither west has idea what is eastern belief and religion devotion (as Shy_Gman said, west thinks that if they are so tolerant and open to migration, opposite side will love them, no, opposite site see them as submissive suckers not as friends, opposite side will cut their throats shouting for Sharia, this woman is perfect example of western thinking - Elin Krantz - it is symbol of western nativity , Jews who say that in 2030, 2040 west will be full of Elin Krantzes are right too)

westernians are naive, they do not understand neither religion devotion, nor revenge, honor-kills etc.

- nor people in Israeli people try to understood 2-nd Newton rule (every action, has reaction, if you for example create state on land where someone lived, they gonna hate you and try to kill you, seeing you as invader, when Jews are in world banks, world corporations - than people hate them not because they are antisemitic from the birth, they become antisemitic when they take credit in bank, when you ask why there is antisemitism in west, ask about big corporations, FED, crisis and how much Jews are in corporations management boards , ask about why Poland has to pay compensation for what German Luftwaffe bombed, everything has it's reason, people see crisis and rich bankster, bank owner name is Jewish-sound, so they become antisemitic because this guy is rich and they are in financial debt in his bank)

truth lies in between , not on 1 side,

Israel was created as state on place where people lived and those people do not see Israel other way than occupant so they want to kill all Israelis, like Poles wanted to kill all Germans till 1945 or Russians before 1918 when we were for 123 years occupied,

it is normal, looking for annihilation and revenge on occupant is normal,

and of course right have those , who say , than IDF actions of course bring more terrorist reactions in future,

when you have collateral damage, you can be sure, someone from relatives of those who died gonna seek revenge,

thats why Hamas operate from urban area - they know it

they know, when they launch rocket on Israelis, than Israelis gonna bomb this place, some people will die , than Hamas has more followers

Hamas doesn't care about THIS LIFE , they believe in eternal life after life, so they want to raise bodycount as far as possible,

when Israelis strike back, someone dies, relatives of those who die join Hamas... vicious circle

but as i said before - truth lies in between

i can bet, that Israelis who say that wikipedia is not truth, also were taught about "Polish death camps" by rabins who say that "non-Jews must be slaves" like Rabin Ovadia Josif

you know what Rabin Ovadia Josif said ? "non-Jews are born to serve Jews and to be our slaves"

what is difference between Jews supporting such rabin, and guys supporting Osama Bin Laden ? or Adolf Hitler ?

Edited August 6, 2014 by vilas

[fabrizio_t 58]

Psycho, I think that anyone who watches this video will reach the conclusion that the IDF should focus on preparing the defence of the north of Israel instead of keep massacring the Palestinian civilians, which will attract more fighters against Israel.

Well, if it's true that one of the biggest supporter of ISIS is Saudi Arabia, then i think Israel can't be the immediate target.

At least the massive IDF operation in Gaza seems to confirm Israel doesn't feel threatened at all.

Just speculation, though.

Edited August 6, 2014 by fabrizio_T

[vilas 477]

maybe Hamas want to make WW3 in region because of some beliefs , they want provoke Israel to harm civilians, hoping that "ISIS-like" or other Arab countries, would attack Israel

for sure videos were proving that Hamas fires rocket from urban areas as well as Palestinian civilians were saying that Hamas launches and escapes , Hamas behave like our European football hooligans, when one or another party has march, than football hooligans mix with this march, start to throw stones at police, than they escape first when police is battoning, because they like adrenaline,

Hamas - from those posted videos - behaves like: "lets get into residential area, lets set launcher, set timer or radio-control, lets escape before first rocket fly" , videos posted in this topic were showing Hamas tactics, they get into civilian area, they use remote control to launch rocket and they escape to be safe, when civilians have problems after their action (this woman on one movie was saying about it)

it is like with opposition party that wants to get to rule , the worse economical situation of country, the bigger chance that opposition wins, so opposition is happy when economy goes down instead of cry, because opposition goal is not to have rich country, but to be in parliament and take salary there,

so it is similar to such kind of opposition,

Hamas is not care about Palestinians life, they care how to rule, and what harm to provoke, to get more power,

what was shown on those videos ? we seen remote control launching system near hotel, they could launch and mount it in desert , there is desert out there for sure, but then they would not bring world attention, Israeli drone would kill 10-20 men who are causing mess and there would be more peace, so they use human shield tactics, after all in their religion human life is nothing,

weapons cost a lot, they get money somewhere from on those rockets

http://www.truthdispatch.com/hamas-terrorists-fighting-with-babies-in-hand/

of course someone can say "this is Christian website, it is not true" ;) but if someone deny Christian news, he should deny Al-Jazeera too, cause Christian news is not worse than Muslim news , cause some pages ago someone said that he doesn't believe Christian news pages but the same time he believes Muslim info pages ;)

IF statements that : Hamas was using ambulances or school bus to transport weapons and attack, or Hamas fighter was carrying rifle in one hand and child in other hand are true - than it is proving they are terrorists which should be eliminated like ISIS, like Al-Queda etc

i would not like to be in shoes of soldier who would be under fire of guy who in second hand keeps infant, i hope that such statements will find evidences (photography, video)

also as said in article, some photos of hypothetical victims in Palestine come from ... war in Syria

but lets be objective - there are some proofs that IDF also used human shield in past

Edited August 6, 2014 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

Vilas similar strategies to Hamas ( to set up rockets and flee ) were used by terrorists groups like E.T.A. in Spain or I.R.A. in UK and neither the Spanish Army nor the UK one start bombing all kind of high populated areas.

BTW who denied "Christian news" before in this thread?

[shay_gman 272]

It is going to be a long one but I suggest you read it as it most likely the most honest post you'll read from Israeli this days:

Seeing the Jews fundamentals sadden me more than seeing the Islamic one. Israel was established as a not religious country.

In fact even if you take a look at pictures of Arabs from 1900s you'll see most of them are wearing suits not Hijabs. Israel and the Arab countries around it become more and more fundamentalist which is a great danger to both sides.

Most of the world see Israelis as Zionist, let me tell you something my grandparents are from Hungary and they didn't came to Israel because they were Zionists they came here escaping from prosecution, pogroms and death camps. They were refugees. Only the guys that came from eastern Europe in early 19th century were Zionist that really leave their houses to start a new state they were at its pick 55,000 Jews that came to this forsaken malaria 's plagued country. The rest just came here because they have no were to go.

No we do not hold duel citizenships and we have NO WERE TO GO – but to the sea. Do you have another piece of land for us? Do you want to handle 8 million Jews that are coming back to Europe?

So if you look at that most if not all of the Israelis are refugees. So if we are to solve the 1.8 million Palestinians refugee problem then we have to deal with the9 millions Israelis refugee problem.

Now if you look back to 1948 most of the world were refugees – after WWI and WW2 a lot of nations were torn apart driven from their homes. So logically after let say a generation a nation cannot be called refugees anymore. Were they live is where they are.

Why no one is calling for Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Saudi Arabia to accept the Palestinians that lives in their countries for almost 70 years citizens?! Why there isn't a world movement that calls for them to let Palestinians buy properties, vote or go to public schools?! But all the world is trying to make Israel (which is the only country that gave full rights and citizenship to 1.8 Palestinians) to take them all under its wings?

Israel was established by the UN voting in 1948 not by stealing lands, in fact Palestine was never a state or a country they were always controlled by other nations from the Salah A Din dynasty, to the Christens crusaders, to the Outmans, Turks and British.

Look guys I am merely a Jew the last time I went to Synagogue was at my Bar Mitzvah (20 years ago), I don't keep Kosher but I have no were to go, I am the son of refugees surrounded by nations that want to kill me just for who I am.

You are saying just stop the killing, we are not killing because we want too, we are killing because we forced too. I don't want to send my son to the military I don't want him to learn how to run to the bomb shelter when he will turn 3, I don't want him to try gas masks every year and keep it in the closet just in case.

Yes Israel did wrong along the way, but since the 1995 we are trying to do right, we signed the Oslo treaty we got out of Gaza, we give the Israeli's Arabs full rights (even more then Jewish in Israel to compensate) we were willing to withdraw from almost all of the west bank for peace and what did we get: suicide bombers, rockets and terror.

You want us to stop the blockade, well we stopped – until 2006 there was no blockade. So why there is now? Because we were attacked day and night by rockets from Gaza so we wanted to limit the amount of materials they can get to shoot on us.

You want us to turn to peace – well we did in the 1990s what did we get – every Sunday another bus full of innocent civilians was bombed.

You want us to remove all the roadblocks – in the 1970s there were no roadblocks as a child I remember all the handymen's were from Gaza and the West Bank. But they kept on bombing us with IEDs and killing civilians.

Why won't you say the other way around... dear Palastenians Israel has tried to make peace with you but you offered it nothing but the sword so now we will give you nothing untill you will behave. Keep the peace for one year and then we talk about the blockade, keep it for two years and then we talk about the road blocks and so on...

So I truly ask you: what is the end goal that you want?

If you think Israel is the reason the extremist Muslims hate you then you'll probably don't understand nothing about the Sharia and the mentality of this guys they are killing Arab christens in Iraq and Syria. What do you think they will do to you?

If you want us to just die in silence just keep on doing what you are doing, condemning Israel and in few years Israel will be part of the Sharia from Iraq to Egypt and when they will stop killing us and all the other infidels in their territory they will turn to you.

If you want peace do this:

Let's face it even if Israel will give up and say "hey guys you know what, we were wrong take the charge and just let us stay as we have no were to go" I doubt that that you will see any Jews in Israel in 5 years. The extremist Islamite are massacring other Muslims and christens all over the world and in Gaza so I can just imagine what they will do to us Jews without the IDF. If the tides were on the other hand and Israel was controlled by Hamas and we were in Gaza do you think we will end this war with 1,800 deaths?! In Syria there are more than 170,000 deaths, Muslims killing Muslims what would you think would have been otherwise? The only chance to have a real peace in Israel is under Israel hands.As it is the only true democracy around, As it is the only country around it that dictate by laws of freedom to all religions, as minorities are being prosecute all around the middle east from Christens and Kurds in Iraq, to Druze in Syria.

So what should you do if you want peace:

Ignore us. Do not support Israel but do not condemn it also just ignore. Do not fuel this terror organization by condemning us nor by showing the death toll that it's poor civilians are paying because this is what the Hamas want. The could have built shelters they could have choose not to shoot from populated areas they could have choose not to hide rockets in UN schools or even more they could have just no get to war with Israel or at least stop it in the first cease fire. But this is how extremists work, the collect their recruits from the shoulders of civilization, they need this deaths to recruit those who stay alive, they need the deaths to beg the world for money, money which they will invest in producing more weapons to create more deaths.

They need you to support them, they don't do anything productive, they don't sell anything. The only get richer on the back of the poor civilians.

And what about Israel you asking? If war crimes were committed when we had another option. then we should pay for it. Not on the public stage as Hamas want us but silently. The morality of Israel is 10 times more important to me than its land. After all this is our sons and daughters that we are sending to fight, and I can assure you we did not raise no murders.

All I and most of us here in Israel just want to do is live in peace, we want our daughters to be able to wear whatever they want to and let them date with other guys, we want our children to choose their way of life and not to be forced into religion. We want to be able to freely go wherever we want to and pray to whatever god we believe in. It sadden me that you almost never hear that from the other side as you are most likely to hear them shouting that they want to destroy Israel rather then hearing them that they want peace.

We want to live in peace and we really don't care where – but where else can we go?!

Just ignore us.

Edited August 6, 2014 by shay_gman

[mistyronin 1181]

The point is that in Judea in the 1900s the 90%'of the population was Arab-Palestine, after that the refugees that as you well said migrated in mass to Judea and formed a Gov. trying to rule those who were living there without even asking to the natives, making them migrate massively after the different wars.

Just check a map of how many and where the Jews lived in 1940 and what % were and how much are now and how many territory they control. If that doesn't ring a bell...

Basically it has been a ethnical cleanse. Israel has managed to remove the native ethnic group that were more than 90% in the 1900s and close the remains in concentration camps with huge walls, concertina wires and checkpoints.

Why would those Arabs that have been treated that way be annoyed with the Israel Govs? Why are they creating terrorist groups?

And the only excuse Israel had to create a State, remove the natives and close the remains was because in a religious texts from a few thousand years ago says that its their land.

The native americans were massacred in millions by the European colonists, do they have today the right to immigrate to Africa, remove the natives and create their own state?

Edited August 6, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

Shay_gman I really understand the motivation of Israel and the reasons. But your current government is not doibg you a service. This indiscriminate killing of civilians is not only a war crime but will also have a huge backlash in the future.

[sgt.cr@$h 11]

Pharaohs, Assyrian, Romans, Crusaders, British and finally Zionist. Does people learn from history? no they don't. Does they think they are immune and technology would help them? no one is immune, kingdoms come and go and if they don't know that then they are fools !

what i mean from that, Palestine will go back to Arabs no matter what, there will be no peace as long as they still there( Israelis ), Arabs just shattered and divided but if they unite not USA not EU not Russia not China non will be able to stop them from taking back what's their!

LEARN FROM HISTORY, EVIL NEVER WINS NO MATTER WHAT !

Edited August 6, 2014 by Sgt.CR@$H
because i can >:D