Arma 3 Helicopters DLC Discussion (dev branch)

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Aye... hmmm... I doubt that too, because all the instruments are there in real time, literally modeled inside the Helicopter itself. However, that's teh way it was in TOH, yet they still had simplified ones that your talking of, so its possible. But to only be for Helicopters again would feel a bit odd. Hop in a jet, just instruments. Hop in a heli, now you got these large dials on the bottom of the screen... it would feel out of place in my opinion. Maybe if they implemented it as an option for those who use them more.

[the_demongod 31]

It would be rather nice to have the clickable cockpit brought into arma 3. It doesn't have to be complex, only just as simple as ToH was. It was a small thing but it really added a lot to the game in my opinion.

On a slightly unrelated topic, It would be nice if the DLC brought with it better simulation for the spotlight on helicopters. We either need to be able to steer it (perhaps there could be an action menu option that would cause the light to follow your line of sight. toggle on > look where you want the light to be fixed > toggle off), or have two separate lights, one that points straight down for landing/illuminating LZs, and another that points forwards and allows the pilot to see in front of them while flying at night. Believe it or not, some of us enjoy flying missions at night without NVGs, and having lights that are weak and unadjustable make this very difficult.

[Raid 18]

Aye... hmmm... I doubt that too, because all the instruments are there in real time, literally modeled inside the Helicopter itself. However, that's teh way it was in TOH, yet they still had simplified ones that your talking of, so its possible. But to only be for Helicopters again would feel a bit odd. Hop in a jet, just instruments. Hop in a heli, now you got these large dials on the bottom of the screen... it would feel out of place in my opinion. Maybe if they implemented it as an option for those who use them more.

Yeah at least have the code in the engine so scripter's would be able to access the output value from the collective. This would be useful in mission making I guess if you want to make a detailed helo cinematic or mission flight. E.g set the Helo to use XXXX collective which will be just enough to fly under powerlines or something if you know what I mean. Not only scripter's would be able to make their own HUD elements. It's just a suggestion that I would really like to see :)

---------- Post added at 01:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:55 ----------

It would be rather nice to have the clickable cockpit brought into arma 3. It doesn't have to be complex, only just as simple as ToH was. It was a small thing but it really added a lot to the game in my opinion.

On a slightly unrelated topic, It would be nice if the DLC brought with it better simulation for the spotlight on helicopters. We either need to be able to steer it (perhaps there could be an action menu option that would cause the light to follow your line of sight. toggle on > look where you want the light to be fixed > toggle off), or have two separate lights, one that points straight down for landing/illuminating LZs, and another that points forwards and allows the pilot to see in front of them while flying at night. Believe it or not, some of us enjoy flying missions at night without NVGs, and having lights that are weak and unadjustable make this very difficult.

Maybe even have it attach it to a Flir. So say you switch the Flir to normal camera have the spotlight move where you're aiming.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

It would be rather nice to have the clickable cockpit brought into arma 3. It doesn't have to be complex, only just as simple as ToH was. It was a small thing but it really added a lot to the game in my opinion.

On a slightly unrelated topic, It would be nice if the DLC brought with it better simulation for the spotlight on helicopters. We either need to be able to steer it (perhaps there could be an action menu option that would cause the light to follow your line of sight. toggle on > look where you want the light to be fixed > toggle off), or have two separate lights, one that points straight down for landing/illuminating LZs, and another that points forwards and allows the pilot to see in front of them while flying at night. Believe it or not, some of us enjoy flying missions at night without NVGs, and having lights that are weak and nonadjustable make this very difficult.

I would love to see interactive cockpits in Arma 3. Though, if it were to arrive for helis, i would than be upset it's not there for fixed wing as well. Would be nice to be able to change Camera modes on the To-199 screens or something of that sort, just by looking at the corresponding panel and interacting with it, without having to scroll.

Only certain helicopters have this ability, and i believe they are all the European ones. The Hellcat has this capability in the armed and un armed version. Other Helicopters are more simple military ones. Like the Ghost hawk, it's stealth feature would not allow for a moving light pod on the bottom, the Mohawk has a frontal hard point for either lights or a multi suite camera system. The MH-9 series HAD the selective ability but was taken away. Would be nice to see those return, and the KA-60 (ORCA)... Has a fixed light like the Ghost Hawk.

[quickvenge 10]

I hated TOH cockpit interaction as everything had to be center to the screen. As a trackIR user it was a real pain to use. They need something like what DCS and Xplane have which is an independent cursor from view to toggle switches and stuff. Otherwise it will be engine auto start/stop for me still.

I'm wondering if they will still model over torque damage. If that is the case, we really need functional torque and RPM gauges.

[x3kj 1247]

I dont see the purpose of clickable cockpits. They avoided tank interiors entirely, so i dont think this fidelity is necessary/appropriate for the helicopters.

[nodunit 397]

Because the DLC focuses on helicopters and not tanks so its not exactly a fair comparison because a tank is a closed asset whereas a helicopter must have a cockpit, its not even apples to oranges.

You are right though, interactive cockpits aren't really viable unless they have a purpose such as an alternative form of use (interaction vs action menu) or make something accessible that would otherwise not be easy to get to.

[x3kj 1247]

You are right though, interactive cockpits aren't really viable unless they have a purpose such as an alternative form of use

In that sense they always would be viable =P TOH needed them, because the entire game solely focused on Helicopters. Arma does not. To spent alot of ressources on an optional thing that not everybody is going to use is not wise. Too much fidelity (which means work) for one aspect of a game that also has many other aspects to take care of. So it's the same as with tank interiors, although different work aspect (more modelling compared to scripting/configging). Therefore i'm absolutely certain that they won't include this.

[nodunit 397]

In that sense they always would be viable =P TOH needed them, because the entire game solely focused on Helicopters. Arma does not. To spent alot of ressources on an optional thing that not everybody is going to use is not wise. Too much fidelity (which means work) for one aspect of a game that also has many other aspects to take care of. So it's the same as with tank interiors, although different work aspect (more modelling compared to scripting/configging). Therefore i'm absolutely certain that they won't include this.

They were viable in TOH but who said that interaction will be in Arma 3, thus far we've only heard of flight model.

What I'm saying is that if there is no start up procedure or something to tinker with on the mpd's then theres really no reason to interact because there is nothing to interact with.

[twisted 128]

They were viable in TOH but who said that interaction will be in Arma 3, thus far we've only heard of flight model.

What I'm saying is that if there is no start up procedure or something to tinker with on the mpd's then theres really no reason to interact because there is nothing to interact with.

actually i'd like to be able to perhaps do things point at the handle on a door (to a building) and get the option to open it. Revolutionary i know, but maybe a little more intuitve than the current get all the options system in Arma3.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I always thought that everything should be handled that way (via. interaction), and the scroll menu only for scripted things, such as VAS menu, and technical things that you cannot walk up to and interact with. Would be an interesting approach to Arma 3, but... Well, that's just one of my thoughts. But Fennek has a great point. Unless the interaction were to be added to EVERYTHING, it's never going to happen.

[nodunit 397]

We'll just have to wait and see, if BI holds true to the gameplay elements being free but content being pay for then it might be possible.

Maybe they'll take Dslyecxi's idea under suggestion,

[hades198 10]

to be honest I would be pleasantly surprised to find click-able cockpits in the new DLC and maybe a deeper level of aircraft familiarisation required to operate it such as simplified start up procedures etc. However I understand that such a requirement would not be welcomed by everyone so maybe such an option could be toggled within the difficulty settings. I'm not going to go as far as to invest in a in depth explanation, but I can't see many reality orientated servers/players or to an extent coop servers operating without such features if they were implemented in the DLC.

[mistyronin 1181]

to be honest I would be pleasantly surprised to find click-able cockpits in the new DLC and maybe a deeper level of aircraft familiarisation required to operate it such as simplified start up procedures etc. However I understand that such a requirement would not be welcomed by everyone so maybe such an option could be toggled within the difficulty settings. I'm not going to go as far as to invest in a in depth explanation, but I can't see many reality orientated servers/players or to an extent coop servers operating without such features if they were implemented in the DLC.

Agree 100%

[nodunit 397]

Same, heck I'd be overjoyed if they essentially brought TKOH to Arma 3 even if it wound up being an expansion full out at $30 or something, to have all of the systems that worked in TKOH would be suuuuch a huge step up...

The % of collective control vs a 0-100, your own real laser designator, actual functioning and cushioned landing struts with wheels behaving like wheels, just these few basic things would solve so many problems that many modders out there are trying to work around.

Edited June 13, 2014 by NodUnit

[the_demongod 31]

to be honest I would be pleasantly surprised to find click-able cockpits in the new DLC and maybe a deeper level of aircraft familiarisation required to operate it such as simplified start up procedures etc. However I understand that such a requirement would not be welcomed by everyone so maybe such an option could be toggled within the difficulty settings. I'm not going to go as far as to invest in a in depth explanation, but I can't see many reality orientated servers/players or to an extent coop servers operating without such features if they were implemented in the DLC.

Agreed. That level of familiarization really makes a big difference realism wise. Plus, it is so much more rewarding when you carefully follow the steps, enabling battery, starter, etc and turn the throttle to full and the engine roars to life for the first time. Much better than pressing 'W' and taking off immediately.

[quickvenge 10]

For me, what good is an interactive cockpit if the flight model is not realistic and doesn't feel like flying the real thing. The fact that the nose doesn't pitch down on a number of TOH helicopters when you lower collective for me is a distraction from being realistic as an example. Coordinating cyclic, collective, and pedals to takeoff, hover, and land is difficult in its own right more so than a plane. If you model other things that can go wrong, settling with power, over torque, low RPM for example, all the while getting shot at, it is rewarding that you took off did your mission, and got back in one piece.

But that level of authenticity could alienate even some of the realists in Arma.

[nodunit 397]

That's why all of the things you mentioned in TKOH were enabled or disabled via game difficulty, it could be as simple in control as Arma 2 with a few changed nuances such as collective being % power vs position or go full on with the rotor discs influencing one another thus requiring a constant or consistent interaction and trimming to stabilize.

Edited June 14, 2014 by NodUnit

[Wiki 1558]

I just wonder how we will be allowed to choose between the different FM we want.

[gatordev 219]

That's why all of the things you mentioned in TKOH were enabled or disabled via game difficulty, it could be as simple in control as Arma 2 with a few changed nuances such as collective being % power vs position or go full on with the rotor discs influencing one another thus requiring a constant or consistent interaction and trimming to stabilize.

To me, this is crucial for my enjoyment. It's not fun for me to have to manage collective/pedals/cyclic for every little input I make on my joystick. Why? Because I don't have to do that in real life. I'm not concentrating on those things because it's second nature. Instead I'm concentrating on other more important things. When it's harder to fly a computer game (because of the interface or game mechanics) than it is the real thing, that ceases to be fun for me.

But adding the various options for the player to turn on or off allows each individual player to be happy (until they go onto a server, I guess).

[robowilso 40]

To me, this is crucial for my enjoyment. It's not fun for me to have to manage collective/pedals/cyclic for every little input I make on my joystick. Why? Because I don't have to do that in real life. I'm not concentrating on those things because it's second nature. Instead I'm concentrating on other more important things. When it's harder to fly a computer game (because of the interface or game mechanics) than it is the real thing, that ceases to be fun for me.

But adding the various options for the player to turn on or off allows each individual player to be happy (until they go onto a server, I guess).

Great post gator! This line of thinking fits in line with so many aspects of Arma gameplay. The player is filling the role of a professional whether that role be aerial or ground forces and alot of these things would be 'second nature' But I also can relate to the opposing view. Just further evidence of "reality is all subject to the perception of the person experiencing it''

[blackpixxel 53]

But it becomes your second nature. You just have to practise some time in the editor and then you will now when and how you have to react to some of the helicopter behaviour.

[gatordev 219]

But it becomes your second nature. You just have to practise some time in the editor and then you will now when and how you have to react to some of the helicopter behaviour.

If I have to practice something in a computer game that I do regularly in real life, not only does it start to become less "fun" (for me), it also starts to become negative training. If sim nerds want to obsess over every little control input (realistic or perceived realistic) with a greatly reduced "feeling" on their computer (compared to real life), then good for them. Personally, I don't want to do that. That's why making everything optional is a great compromise for everyone involved.

[blackpixxel 53]

You have to practice everything in Arma, so this would not be an exception or something special. Also the current easy-flightmodel needs some little training. And btw, the TOH-flightmodel makes your helicopter more agile, so you also profit from using it. And since when is it less fun to get better at something?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

You have to practice everything in Arma, so this would not be an exception or something special. Also the current easy-flightmodel needs some little training. And btw, the TOH-flightmodel makes your helicopter more agile, so you also profit from using it. And since when is it less fun to get better at something?

What he is saying, is that for him being an actual pilot, the practice of flying in a game, can be negative for a pilot in real life. Even when i went to an Airfield to take a pilot's test, my instructor told me not to play flight sims ever again, and it's for good reason.