Female character models

[vegeta897 13]

It doesn't seem like there's any more progress to be made in this thread aside from BIS giving some response. Though they've already said why female models aren't in the game right now, have they spoken on future plans/possibilities?

[gibonez 18]

Bloody hell.

Even Electronic Arts is more progressive and sensible than half the people on this board. This is not primarily about "wut is real"

Shouldn't it be however.

This is a mil sim and thus it should remain realistic, no way female combat units are out on the field today doing infantry combat on support roles sure but not doing grunt work.

Female soldiers are fine for arcade fps that EA, and activision have but keep it the fuck away from a mil sim like Arma.

[soulis6 24]

Shouldn't it be however.

This is a mil sim and thus it should remain realistic, no way female combat units are out on the field today doing infantry combat on support roles sure but not doing grunt work.

Female soldiers are fine for arcade fps that EA, and activision have but keep it the fuck away from a mil sim like Arma.

Incorrect. Arma is a game, it is designed to be played and to be fun, not to train troops. Pure simulations are not generally fun, and not sold to people who play games. You can't throw around the R word without acknowledging everything else 'incorrect' about the game, and in which case you are then picking and choosing among non-sim aspects of the game, to support arguing to be LESS inclusive of half of all people in the world.

[shodantek 10]

With 1300+ hours in Arma 3, i honestly don't have a problem with civilian females, but i honestly don't want to have to put down a chick because she poses a threat to my Special Forces unit. My personal opinion. Civilian's, yes, active duty, not so much.

This is supposed to be a MilSim. There are already active duty female soldiers in many countries, including the U.S. You would expect that female soldiers are, if anything, more prevalent in the 2030s.

[Cephel 10]

This is supposed to be a MilSim. There are already active duty female soldiers in many countries, including the U.S. You would expect that female soldiers are, if anything, more prevalent in the 2030s.

Active duty yes, as a support. As in, not actually deployed to combat. As in, never see frontline grunt work. That's the cold hard fact. Have a good read here from a female veteran on the exact reasons why women will NEVER be deployed to combat in the same way men will: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/27/some-advice-on-women-in-combat-from-a-female-veteran/

This recent trend of claiming you're unable to enjoy a video game if there isn't a female ( or gay, or trans, or whatever the hell ) character for you to play as seriously needs to stop. It's called being able to immerse yourself in a game. Start playing games because they're fun, not because you can be a girl in it. If arma isn't fun to you with only male characters to play as, then try different games, because it won't be fun with female characters either

As for actually having said models. It's unrealistic, it's a massive increase in workload ( new voices, new models, new animations, all with different variations ) for what is essentially no gain whatsoever.

Keep this crap out of my arma.

[nodunit 397]

[kklownboy 43]

what what ? There are many Gals with guns. More is better. Lets put this "crap" in ARMA. BIS blew it.

[sorophx 25]

Have a good read here from a female veteran on the exact reasons why women will NEVER be deployed to combat in the same way men will: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/27/some-advice-on-women-in-combat-from-a-female-veteran/

Jazz Shaw is a retard it would seem, with shit arguments. I could rebut any and all of them

[novemberist 2]

How is this still a discussion about women in the army? We want female character models, because is women make up a significant amount of the human population and their absence in a game world kills a lot of immersion for players (i.e. not only female players). Whether they eventually be in Arma 3 as soldiers, civillians, support personnel etc. doesn't even matter. It's about time we get basic female models.

[vegeta897 13]

This recent trend of claiming you're unable to enjoy a video game if there isn't a female ( or gay, or trans, or whatever the hell ) character for you to play as seriously needs to stop. It's called being able to immerse yourself in a game. Start playing games because they're fun, not because you can be a girl in it. If arma isn't fun to you with only male characters to play as, then try different games, because it won't be fun with female characters either

I'm sorry, this is an incredibly regressive attittude. This "recent trend" you speak of is not about the ability for people to enjoy games. No woman ever said they couldn't enjoy a game if they were unable to play as a female, or that playing as one would magically make the game better. It's about gender representation. It's a real issue that a lot of people care about. Video games are now a gigantic part of culture (not just a nerd hobby anymore) and in general are pretty far behind in terms of the roles females have in them. Either lack of them as primary characters, or having them completely sexualized simply to appeal to the male demographic. Nobody is asking for females in games where they shouldn't be, but if female soldiers in Arma would break your immersion, perhaps you are the one with the problem. They aren't aliens. Is it that unrealistic for you to see a woman in combat fatigues shooting a rifle? The fact that you think the progressive movement for better representation of females in videogames "needs to stop" instantly discredits everything you say.

[sorophx 25]

No woman ever said they couldn't enjoy a game if they were unable to play as a female, or that playing as one would magically make the game better.

actually, plenty of women have said this in my gaming experience

[roshnak 41]

Active duty yes, as a support. As in, not actually deployed to combat. As in, never see frontline grunt work. That's the cold hard fact. Have a good read here from a female veteran on the exact reasons why women will NEVER be deployed to combat in the same way men will: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/27/some-advice-on-women-in-combat-from-a-female-veteran/

Let's say I accept this argument (I don't. It's dumb and history proves you wrong.). What percentage of the military is comprised of combat arms, again? And what would preclude me from making a mission where the other 80% of the military is represented?

[Cephel 10]

It's about gender representation

No it's not, they CLAIM it's about gender representation to make anyone speaking against it look like a misogynistic person. The truth is, gender representation in video games doesn't exist in the first place. They're not human. They're digital models that APPEAR human. You are not represented by video game characters, female or male. Stop claiming this is about representation, because it is simply not

Video games do not exist to fulfil some political quota to include this many % of women in them. Video games are pieces of art. Are you seriously also protesting in front of well known museums for not including more paintings with women? Even worse, you demand that games be modified away from what the designer intended. So are you genuinely saying that you want to replace half the men in "The last supper" with women to be more political correct? Don't be ridiculous. What you and people like you isn't an accurate representation of video game characters. You want people to shoehorn your world view and agenda into an art form, that people that you dislike tend to play. For no other reason than to FORCE them to experience said world views and beliefs. It's exactly the same thing creationists are trying in america by trying to get it recognized as an actual science ( it's not btw ), they don't do it to enrichen the scientific process, they do it to destroy science itself, because it conflicts with their world views.

So I say again, yes, it is precisely THAT unrealistic to have female combat deployed soldiers in the game. Yes, if you are unable to enjoy the game with the characters you have right now, then you're playing it for the wrong reason. Yes, this recent equalization trend is the worst thing that happened to video games since Jack Thompson. Yes, you are idiotic if you think that representation has ANY place in a video game. And yes, the next dragon age is gonna be complete shit because of those aforementioned reasons, and yet you will still buy it because it's "progressive".

Jazz Shaw is a retard it would seem, with shit arguments. I could rebut any and all of them

Be my guest ( ignoring the fact that Jazz Shaw just reposted it, and is not the actual person in question ). The actual soldier in question was genuinely a deployed female soldier of the IDF and I'd love to see you "rebut" any of her arguments. Go ahead

Edited July 26, 2014 by Cephel

[vegeta897 13]

No it's not, they CLAIM it's about gender representation to make anyone speaking against it look like a misogynistic person. The truth is, gender representation in video games doesn't exist in the first place. They're not human. They're digital models that APPEAR human. You are not represented by video game characters, female or male. Stop claiming this is about representation, because it is simply not

Video games do not exist to fulfil some political quota to include this many % of women in them. Video games are pieces of art. Are you seriously also protesting in front of well known museums for not including more paintings with women? Even worse, you demand that games be modified away from what the designer intended. So are you genuinely saying that you want to replace half the men in "The last supper" with women to be more political correct? Don't be ridiculous. What you and people like you isn't an accurate representation of video game characters. You want people to shoehorn your world view and agenda into an art form, that people that you dislike tend to play. For no other reason than to FORCE them to experience said world views and beliefs. It's exactly the same thing creationists are trying in america by trying to get it recognized as an actual science ( it's not btw ), they don't do it to enrichen the scientific process, they do it to destroy science itself, because it conflicts with their world views.

So I say again, yes, it is precisely THAT unrealistic to have female combat deployed soldiers in the game. Yes, if you are unable to enjoy the game with the characters you have right now, then you're playing it for the wrong reason. Yes, this recent equalization trend is the worst thing that happened to video games since Jack Thompson. Yes, you are idiotic if you think that representation has ANY place in a video game. And yes, the next dragon age is gonna be complete shit because of those aforementioned reasons, and yet you will still buy it because it's "progressive".

I'm not sure why you're talking about me as if I identified myself as part of the group of people I referred to. I personally do not care whether a game has playable female characters or not. But I have read a fair amount from people that do.

To say gender representation doesn't exist in video games because they're virtual is totally naive. By that logic, gender representation doesn't exist in almost any media, especially literature. Even movies or television with live actors aren't really "real" humans from the viewer's perspective, since they're just pixels and sound waves. But the viewer sees them as human, just as they can see video game characters, cartoon characters, or words in a book as humans. I don't know where you get this criteria. It's gender representation. A character in a video game can represent a female or male human. That's what we're talking about. And since video games are a very prevalent part of culture now, they have a real impact on society's perceptions, especially children. If you deny this, you're just being ignorant.

I'm not even going to touch the nonsense you're spouting about agendas. Give me a break, dude. More like, female players in online games are given shit daily and are sick of dealing with misogyny. Do you think it's a coincidence that the people they're getting shit from are the same people playing these games that portray women as secondary, sexualized damsels in distress?

[laverniusregalis 10]

It's because Altis is a goddamn sausage-fest, okay?

[Cephel 10]

By that logic, gender representation doesn't exist in almost any media, especially literature.

Last I checked, people didn't ask for more females in books, this is my entire gripe. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current situation and people try to shoehorn their world views into games. That's the gist of it. Keep this crap out of my video games.

I personally do not care whether a game has playable female characters or not.

Weird, because you just had a post on the page prior that says otherwise

Video games are NOT a political medium where every subgroup of people needs to be represented. Do you want females in Tetris too? Honest question. If you start to alter artistic works to add political correctness in the form of more women, more people of whatever, hell even if it's the prime example of female representation and there's literally no male characters, adding male characters would still be a bad thing. Forcing artists to change their piece of art so it fits political correctness or some agenda ( ie. "representation of women in video games" ) is an extremely dangerous thing to ask for. The last people who tried to change art to fit their world views and ban art that didn't fit it happen to be responsible for the Holocaust too. In art EVERYTHING goes, freedom of speech largely means the freedom to speak and create things that YOU don't like, this is what it means to live in a free country.

In art, everything must be doable, otherwise it stops being art. If I want to make a game that literally lets you rape and torture women, then you might find it disgusting, but it is my god damn right to do so as an artist, and not you, nor anyone else will take that right from me.

Let artist do whatever they want and don't force them to change their work to appeal to the masses. Art MUST be able to provoke, to disgust and to be hated

Edited July 26, 2014 by Cephel

[BL1P 35]

"but it is my god damn right to do so as an artist"

says who ?

[Cephel 10]

The constitution of pretty much every first world country currently existing: Freedom of speech.

[Jafit 10]

For all the complaining that these people do about gender representation, none of them actually seem to be interested in developing any games that meet their standards.

Even for Arma, there's nothing stopping you from creating a mod that adds female character models to the game... And yet we're here, bitching to BIS to add it for us instead of doing it ourselves.

Imagine if people did nothing but bitch on the forums for BIS to add weapon resting, or fastroping, or whatever other feature people wanted... instead of just going and making a mod that does it anyway. It'd be pretty terrible.

If you actually care about this issue, then why not make a mod that adds female characer models?

[BL1P 35]

The constitution of pretty much every first world country currently existing: Freedom of speech.

ahh you mean america ?

I reserve the right to ignore "The constitution" as I am not american.

but

am a first world resident.

So now who did you say gives you the right ?

[Jafit 10]

So now who did you say gives you the right ?

A better question would probably be "who is going to stop him?"

Please don't devolve into philosophical debates, they always end with two people arguing over the definitions of words.

[BL1P 35]

A better question would probably be "who is going to stop him?"

Please don't devolve into philosophical debates, they always end with two people arguing over the definitions of words.

true true :)

but one too many beers and I can't help arguing with the colonies :)

My bad... Yes its your god damn yippy hoorah right dag nabbit to do as you wish as an artist !

[Cephel 10]

true true :)

but one too many beers and I can't help arguing with the colonies :)

My bad... Yes its your god damn yippy hoorah right dag nabbit to do as you wish as an artist !

So i take that remark about the "colonies" that you're from the UK then. Fine. I'm gonna quote article 10 of the human rights act from 1998 of the united kingdom, paragraph 1:

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. [...]

This includes the right to communicate and to express oneself in any medium, including through words, pictures, images and actions (including through public protest and demonstrations).

The type of expression protected includes:

- political expression (including comment on matters of general public interest);

- artistic expression; and

- commercial expression, particularly when it also raises matters of legitimate public debate and concern.

I can guarantee you that every civilized country has one of those, as it is a basic human right.

[roshnak 41]

Last I checked, people didn't ask for more females in books, this is my entire gripe. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current situation and people try to shoehorn their world views into games. That's the gist of it. Keep this crap out of my video games.

Weird, because you just had a post on the page prior that says otherwise

Video games are NOT a political medium where every subgroup of people needs to be represented. Do you want females in Tetris too? Honest question. If you start to alter artistic works to add political correctness in the form of more women, more people of whatever, hell even if it's the prime example of female representation and there's literally no male characters, adding male characters would still be a bad thing. Forcing artists to change their piece of art so it fits political correctness or some agenda ( ie. "representation of women in video games" ) is an extremely dangerous thing to ask for. The last people who tried to change art to fit their world views and ban art that didn't fit it happen to be responsible for the Holocaust too. In art EVERYTHING goes, freedom of speech largely means the freedom to speak and create things that YOU don't like, this is what it means to live in a free country.

In art, everything must be doable, otherwise it stops being art. If I want to make a game that literally lets you rape and torture women, then you might find it disgusting, but it is my god damn right to do so as an artist, and not you, nor anyone else will take that right from me.

Let artist do whatever they want and don't force them to change their work to appeal to the masses. Art MUST be able to provoke, to disgust and to be hated

This is a whole lot of words to justify an opinion that is based on a bunch of false assumptions.

[LukinFanBoy 0]

"but it is my god damn right to do so as an artist"

says who ?

Because, censoring thing makes them go away.