1stBN/160th SOAR Mod ArmA III WIP

[Gilatar 272]

2 minutes ago, LJH_1 said:

My entire argument is that its stupid to argue that supporters of a project can't be disappointed by a missed release date just because something is free and that its stupid to argue that because a project is free the developer is entitled to praise even after messing up.

 

And my entire argument is that it's unnecessary, rude and detrimental to the modding community to vent your disappointment vocally.

 

You can feel disappointed all you want, but modders put enough pressure on themselves as is. Having an entire thread full of people complaining about a missed deadline or requesting more content when you've just worked tirelessly to release it is not justified, and no argument can convince me that it is. Explicitly stating that you are entitled to a free addon is one thing, and that's not what I claimed you did, but when people complain about the lack of a release it's obviously with the intent to put negative pressure on the modder. Those are both displays of a kind of self-entitlement that we don't need as a community, and it baffles me that people are defending it.

[LJH_1 53]

5 minutes ago, Gilatar said:

but when people complain about the lack of a release it's obviously with the intent to put negative pressure on the modder. Those are both displays of a kind of self-entitlement that we don't need as a community, and it baffles me that people are defending it.

The only way you can ever achieve this would either be through totalitarian, 1984-esque, moderation on the forums where no one is allowed to display their emotion and you get punished for wrong think. Or if no one becomes excited or emotionally invested in any mods in the first place. It's ridiculous to think that you can have the good without the bad and that negative actions don't have  negative consequences. Why would you even want that to begin with? If you suppress people for being disappointed eventually you are just going to get a community full of apathetic people that don't have any opinions and aren't supportive or excited towards mods since being excited opens you up for disappointment and since its not okay to be disappointed why would you even get excited and open yourself up to that?

 

Yes it sucks to disappoint people and miss deadlines after working your ass off on a hobby project. People are going to respect you a lot more as a person and as a mod developer if you accept that as part of the risk of putting your work out to the public rather than trying to suppress peoples disappointment because they deem it as "rude and detrimental". I'd rather risk getting shit on by the community than not be respectable because I can't take criticism and disappointed supporters.

[Callsign 128]

9 hours ago, LJH_1 said:

...not okay to be disappointed why would you even get excited and open yourself up to that?

 

 

It's about emotional intelligence. The fact you're arguing over this suggests you're letting your emotions lead you, and no doubt my post will further add to that if you let them.

You don't have the addon now so not having it in future isn't a loss.

 

It is a shame that lots of extremely well crafted addons here seem to get to 90-95% complete then never released, but that's just the nature of modding as a hobby. These are individuals' pet projects, who undoubtedly have high standards in mind, or have unexpected complications roadblock that final push to release. The majority of the community doesn't see how complicated those problems can be, they only see the wireframe and textures and think, why can't I drive/fly/use the addon yet? That's not even to go into real life disrupting your hobby, which @warlord554  has already made people fully aware of.

 

We/ I care more about the individual making the addon than the addon itself, which is why you won't see many of the people who've been on here a long time complaining about expectations.

[LJH_1 53]

17 hours ago, Callsign said:

It's about emotional intelligence. The fact you're arguing over this suggests you're letting your emotions lead you, and no doubt my post will further add to that if you let them.

I'm actually pretty neutral, emotionally wise, I couldn't really give a fuck if this mod is released tomorrow in in three years. My argument is just that it is stupid to throw such a hissy fit when people are inevitably disappointed when you get their hopes up for a release. Obviously when you give yourself a public deadline and then miss it, people are going to be disappointed because you got them excited for it. It's a little ridiculous to put all of the blame on the supporters that are disappointed. Just because the mod you are making is going to be released for free doesn't mean you are entitled to praise and it shouldn't mean that you can't be accountable for making a mistake that disappoints your supporters. As I said before, that is a good way to alienate your supporters and make an apathetic community. Part of the risk of releasing your content to the public is being criticized and risking disappointing your supporters, especially when you set self imposed deadlines. It's not so much about the emotions, I just think its stupid to put all of the blame on a handful of disappointed supporters and call them entitled when you are literally saying the developer is entitled to your praise just because what they are doing is for free. It's not only hypocritical but a pretty strawman argument to make. 

 

Hopefully you can understand my argument a little better. It's more about pointing out the hypocrisy of that specific tactic used to shut down so many "debates" on the forums and in other places and less about the actual release of specific mods.

[Dedmen 2700]

I also stopped giving any dates for anything, because I know it doesn't work (TFAR 1.0 released christmas 2016? 😄)

I agree that modders shouldn't announce a release, and then just go silent when it doesn't happen, atleast say why it didn't happen instead of leaving everyone in limbo.

 

But frankly this discussion veered severely offtopic, so I'd prefer if this stops now. After all asking for release dates and the likes counts as spam according to our rules.

[PuFu 4600]

On 8/18/2019 at 12:23 AM, LJH_1 said:

Because it shows you can't take their word?

While i agree with the fact that the author simply shouldn't have posted anything about a release date to begin with, there are always some things that come in between a proposed release date and an actual release date (BIS engine, personal life etc).
Again, it is simpler not to post such release date to begin with, as it seems random people of the interwebs (supporters) can get some bad blood and get dissapointed over it

 

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And why are we faulting people for being rightfully disappointed? Just because its a hobby doesn't mean you get a pass for missing self imposed deadlines and getting people's hopes up. 

Because everything should be taken with a big cup of salt when it comes to hobby stuff. Being disappointed doesn't necessary mean publicly express your dissatisfaction. 

I have noticed people are getting their hopes up either way, and have expediencies that are more often then not unrealistic to something that is being done in spare time.

 

On 8/18/2019 at 1:03 AM, LJH_1 said:

Being disappointed by a mod missing a release date for like the 3rd time after its been hyped up by the developer is not being self-entitled.

This entire discussion section of BIF is nothing but a hype train. I honestly do not see the reason for it anymore unless there is some sort of real discussion going on between developer and the interested party.

If for one reason or another the supporters cannot grasp that over 60% of post here are never gonna see a release day, its on them not on anyone else.

 

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 Why should mod developers be entitled to everyone's praise even when they repeatedly fail to make deadlines they set? As I said before, just because its free doesn't mean you are a saint or that you are entitled to peoples praise.

Hobbyist developers are not entitled to anything, just like users aren't - that being praise, or requesting shit just the same. 

But then again, if one does modding exclusively for people's praises, then that one is doing it wrong to begin with. 

 

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 How is this a bad thing? People see the quality work and effort that is put into a released project and they want to see their dream vehicle, gear, weapon, etc. done by that person since they believe it will have the same quality as the already released mod. Sure it might be annoying having to answer that all the time but to make it out to be a bad thing is just silly.

It is not about being bad or good. it is about being able to distinguish the fact that different people have different interests, and your own wet dream asset might be wet just for you.

I really do not get why, after so many years of the same thing, people still believe their request / desire is worth any penny and why they keep doing the same thing over and over again.

 

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Why would you not feel some sense of flattery that people respect your work enough that they want to see you do their dream mod?

I can tell you from my own experience that doesn't feel flattery in the slightest after putting a lot of work into something that gets released, the first comment being - "why isn't A or B in yet" or "when will C or D gonna be added", as if anyone is purposely not adding (emphasis on adding rather than creating) stuff out of their magic hat that produces content from scratch on its own out of the fucking thin air.

 

10 hours ago, LJH_1 said:

Part of the risk of releasing your content to the public is being criticized and risking disappointing your supporters, especially when you set self imposed deadlines. It's not so much about the emotions, I just think its stupid to put all of the blame on a handful of disappointed supporters and call them entitled when you are literally saying the developer is entitled to your praise just because what they are doing is for free. It's not only hypocritical but a pretty strawman argument to make. 

The moment said supporters realize their ability to use a mod is simply a byproduct (and not the scope) of some random bloke on the internet decided to produce (in general for his own private enjoyment) and publicly release such content, then this entire community based around 3rd party mods will manage to grow and evolve.

 

 

Conclusion:
a. Never post about planned stuff or release dates unless you are able to deliver - fair point. It is otherwise simply better for all involved parties such details to be kept under wraps until it happens (you can see all the old farts that are still about creating stuff doing this for the past several years).
b. Public release should never be the scope of a mod. The scope should be the developer's fun and enjoyment while creating whatever he wants to create. As such, this entire BIF section should be taken lighter than it currently is.

c. The developer(s) is not entitled and should not expect anything (besides his license / EULA respected that is), be it early/late praise, feedback or criticism (purulent or constructive). 

d. The user(s) is not entitled and should not expect anything , be it a release, his request be produced and delivered, his feedback taken into consideration and long time support and compatibility of the content that he gets to use.

 

 

[PotionSeller 22]

Did that argument kill the thread?

[typhoontiger 36]

Don’t think the thread was going anywhere regardless 

[Alexxander2209 0]

is this thread still alive ? 

 

[islesfan186 83]

40 minutes ago, Alexxander2209 said:

is this thread still alive ? 

 

The creator has a small platoons worth of kids. As much as I am awaiting the release, RL has probably bogged it down

[typhoontiger 36]

I agree. Having a kid myself, I can only imagine how busy he is with a “platoon” of them lmao. Family first always 

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

@Alexxander2209 Not the best 1st impression one wants to make as it proves that you haven't bothered reading the thread. Please read before commenting. Thank You!

Moderator

[Crew Dog Gamer 25]

welp

[Foxone 1044]

22 hours ago, Crew Dog Gamer said:

welp

If you are still looking for an MH-60M I suggest you check out Yax's UH-60M pack, it also has the MH-60M and MH-60M DAP, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1745501605

(it also has the option to add an Assault Boat/CRRC to the bottom of the fuselage with ACE)