Ukraine General

[aleksadragutin 9]

Fine, I guess we will have to believe some random guy on the internet, rather than well known organisations which have done serious, well documented studies. After all, everyone can make a study and the opinion of one guy is much more reliable.

Exactly! You can chose to not believe me, after all that would change nothing, but I happen to know a thing or two you don't. And wikipedia is called FREE encyclopedia for a reason.

[beastcat 14]

Exactly! You can chose to not believe me, after all that would change nothing, but I happen to know a thing or two you don't. And wikipedia is called FREE encyclopedia for a reason.

Wanna know a tip? If you don't trust wikipedia, you can always press the small blue number to get the source.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Wanna know a tip? If you don't trust wikipedia, you can always press the small blue number to get the source.

2 of 3 sources are government, and the other is B92 which is quoting the government. If you don't believe a Serbian that Serbs don't like EU that's fine. Just goes to show your narrow vision.

[mistyronin 1181]

2 of 3 sources are government, and the other is B92 which is quoting the government. If you don't believe a Serbian that Serbs don't like EU that's fine. Just goes to show your narrow vision.

If you ask a Serb. You'll have the opinion of one Serb.

I do believe and trust that you, and probably your social circles don't support that Serbia join the EU.

But you can't talk for all the Serbian population, just for a tiny part.

As I said before, if the Gov. tries to do something that the people don't agree, the people will take care of them. You already saw what happened to Milosevic or to Yanukovic ( or Mussolini ).

[aleksadragutin 9]

If you ask a Serb. You'll have the opinion of one Serb.

I do believe and trust that you, and probably your social circles don't support that Serbia join the EU.

But you can't talk for all the Serbian population, just for a tiny part.

As I said before, if the Gov. tries to do something that the people don't agree, the people will take care of them. You already saw what happened to Milosevic or to Yanukovic ( or Mussolini ).

It is not that simple and it doesn't work that way. Ok we let's say we stop them, what next, elections, promising A delivering B? The truth is that small people can not have their country to them selves these days.

With Milosevic many people think that western intelligence agencies have messed with public unrest. There is an interesting movie about that http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0339535/

[mistyronin 1181]

It is not that simple and it doesn't work that way. Ok we let's say we stop them, what next, elections, promising A delivering B? The truth is that small people can not have their country to them selves these days.

With Milosevic many people think that western intelligence agencies have messed with public unrest. There is an interesting movie about that http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0339535/

The good thing of the democracy is that nothing is for ever. In each elections you can vote the candidate that you believe it does best. And if you don't trust any of them, you can present yourself ( I guess you are an adult ).

About possible Western influence in the unrest. That's hard to believe as Milosevic controlled all the media, and had a strong censorship. But even if it was. We are talking about thousands of people that were angry, it's statistically impossible that external influence could be the cause of the majority of the protest.

Serbs are not idiots, and Serbia is a modern country with educated people ( 98% of literacy ), not like Afghanistan were only 28% of the population can read or Mali with 27%.

[aleksadragutin 9]

The good thing of the democracy is that nothing is for ever. In each elections you can vote the candidate that you believe it does best. And if you don't trust any of them, you can present yourself ( I guess you are an adult ).

About possible Western influence in the unrest. That's hard to believe as Milosevic controlled all the media, and had a strong censorship. But even if it was. We are talking about thousands of people that were angry, it's statistically impossible that external influence could be the cause of the majority of the protest.

Serbs are not idiots, and Serbia is a modern country with educated people ( 98% of literacy ), not like Afghanistan were only 28% of the population can read or Mali with 27%.

That is a naive over simplification. It's nice that you believe that, but there are over 20 partys here. Everyone who ever thought they could change something was wrong. Those who honestly wanted things better quit politics when they were faced with this. Those who stayed are the ones who want things better, but for them selves. I don't expect you to understand but if someone here knows what I'm talking about they could try to explain it better.

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Ukraine crisis: President calls snap vote amid fighting

Petro Poroshenko said many current MPs were backers of ousted President Viktor Yanukovych and that the majority of Ukrainians wanted a new parliament.

Elections would be held on 26 October, he said in a TV address.

Separately, Ukraine's military says it clashed with rebel armoured vehicles that entered the country from Russia.

More than 2,000 people have died in months of fighting between Ukrainian forces and separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

[vilas 474]

And if you don't trust any of them, you can present yourself ( I guess you are an adult ).

again you wrote something funny :D

how you will present anyone if mainstream media tv stations will not show you ? if you are not from mafia, noone will talk with you,

and to get to parliament your party must have > 5% of votes to cross border limit

[mistyronin 1181]

again you wrote something funny :D

how you will present anyone if mainstream media tv stations will not show you ? if you are not from mafia, noone will talk with you,

and to get to parliament your party must have > 5% of votes to cross border limit

My father was a politician, and occupied quite high positions in my home country ( and his cousin reached to industry minister ). And no, neither of them were in the mainstream media TV, nor were rich ( my father died a few years ago and his cousin is now in an important position in the EU ). But talked with a lot of people, traveled a lot, and convinced the people.

I've lived politics all my life, my father took me to meetings, and also to each vote showing me all the details ( was a weird relationship, he didn't care about the usual stuff at home, but we had a lot of interesting politic conversations ). I even meet a few times my country's president when I was a kid.

So yeah, I know more or less how the game works.

Edited August 25, 2014 by MistyRonin

[mistyronin 1181]

( Yle ) Finland asks Russia to explain air space incursions

[maddogx 13]

How is that related to Ukraine?

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Captured Russian troops 'in Ukraine by accident'FPDR

A Russian defence ministry source was quoted by the Russian news agency RIA Novosti as saying: "The soldiers really did participate in a patrol of a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border, crossed it by accident on an unmarked section, and as far as we understand showed no resistance to the armed forces of Ukraine when they were detained."

Interrogation videos

Edited August 26, 2014 by surpher

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes, we already noticed that Russian soldiers have no clue where the frontier actually is. In fact they are so absent minded that they even forget to wear the accurate country badge every now and then.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[Tonci87 163]

That is a naive over simplification. It's nice that you believe that, but there are over 20 partys here. Everyone who ever thought they could change something was wrong. Those who honestly wanted things better quit politics when they were faced with this. Those who stayed are the ones who want things better, but for them selves. I don't expect you to understand but if someone here knows what I'm talking about they could try to explain it better.

Yeah I know wht you mean.

You see guys here on the Balkan most people become politicians for one single reason: To fill their own pockets as fast as they bloody can.

You have lots of parties that will promise everything that is popular before the votes, only to completely forget about it once they get elected, or in the best case do a really half assed job. Politics just works different here... And it is not easy to get into politics yourself. You can join a party if you wish, but beeing a party member doesn´t give you any power. You need to know the right people and be good with them to advance to meaningfull positions. People that really want to change something are viewed as dangerous by other politicians and therefore can´t advance. Some try to go without a party, that may work on a small level, but those people usually get outfunded by the real parties....

[vilas 474]

news from minute ago - Ukrainian border service claim, minute ago Russian helicopters attacked Border Station in Ukraine, killing 4 Border Guards of Ukraine,

apart from captured 2 tank crewmen, Ukraine claims they have 10 more man captured this night who are Russian Federation Soldiers sent to Ukraine , also they claim "they have no idea they are on Ukraine" , green man again

Edited August 26, 2014 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

Ukraine's security service said its military had captured the 10 Russian paratroopers near the village of Dzerkalne, about 50km (30 miles) south-east of the rebel-held city of Donetsk and about 20km from the Russian border.

20km.. Either they were really really lost (I find it hard to believe that you can drive 20km without noticing that you aren´t in your own country anymore, but hey it does happen to some people) or they were on some kind of mission.

[mistyronin 1181]

How is that related to Ukraine?

We have been talking in different instances about how the Russian Gov. and military have been acting with their neighbors to try to get the big picture of what's happening in Ukraine.

[beastcat 14]

20km.. Either they were really really lost (I find it hard to believe that you can drive 20km without noticing that you aren´t in your own country anymore, but hey it does happen to some people) or they were on some kind of mission.

Im suprised Russia didn't say that those are not actually russian soldiers, but soldiers the separatists have captured from Ukraine.

[mistyronin 1181]

20km.. Either they were really really lost (I find it hard to believe that you can drive 20km without noticing that you aren´t in your own country anymore, but hey it does happen to some people) or they were on some kind of mission.

And the fact that they painted the traffic plates in white and their officers told them that they were going on an "exercise"...

BTW if you are guarding the border of a country, I can promise that you'll know in what direction the other country is. And one thing is walk a few hundred meters, the other are dozens of kms.

[beastcat 14]

http://youtu.be/F6KvVA44Qy8

People fleing from Mariupol due to fears of a russian invasion.

The Mariupol administration has actually made a statement after the separatists opened a new front, that the citizens should stay for now, because no real danger was present at the moment and that they will be kept up to date about the possible full scale invasion. Edited August 26, 2014 by beastcat

[vilas 474]

http://un.ua/eng/article/528862.html

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/reuters-four-border-guards-killed-in-russian-helicopter-attack-362061.html

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/france-24-far-right-russian-jihad-fighters-cross-into-ukraine-video-362067.html

[beastcat 14]

[ProfTournesol 956]

This video is no proof whatsoever. Using prisoners speech is a shame.

[beastcat 14]

This video is no proof whatsoever. Using prisoners speech is a shame.

Prisoners speech? This is a simple interrogation.

You can see it as proof, you can not see it as proof, but I don't see whats wrong with interrogations. The police does it, the military does it and these are certainly more humane than the ones from the other side.