Ukraine General

[beastcat 14]

I dont understand you, the independent journalist who are filming and patrolling with them or reporting about seperatists in general are as close as it is possible. These are war reporters risking their lives. There is not much to discuss, either journalists are reporting or not but it is possible.

Here is an example of a german independent journalist who is joining a combat unit (seperatists) going to patrolling the frontline and have contacts (raw footage), vice news is another example and you will find probably more indep. journalist when you google:

I guess I stand corrected, I never saw a "foreign" reported drive around with the separatists.

Oh and heres an interesting ANNA video. Skip to 7:15 and you will see their reporter from the beginning of the video. Yes, its the fat one with the bulletproof vest, uniform, helmet and AK.

http://youtu.be/l3iIRllRZuk

[mistyronin 1181]

Oh and heres an interesting ANNA video. Skip to 7:15 and you will see their reporter from the beginning of the video. Yes, its the fat one with the bulletproof vest, uniform, helmet and AK.

He has a weapon, so technically he is a combatant not a journalist.

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Poroshenko offers rebels more autonomy

He said he was seeking a permanent solution to the conflict and had submitted a bill to parliament that would give separatists more autonomy but with "a status that keeps these regions in Ukraine".

"Ukraine will not make any concessions on issues of its territorial integrity," he insisted.

(BBC) 'Frozen conflicts' and the Kremlin

Andrei Piontkovsky, a Russian affairs commentator known for his sharp criticism of President Putin, believes the three-term Russian leader has a personal interest in maintaining instability in Ukraine, with its orientation towards the EU.

"His ultimate objective is his presidency for life," he told BBC News last week.

"So Ukraine has no right to become a democratic, economically open state. From Putin's point of view, that would create a very bad example for Russia."

(The Atlantic) Russia and the Menace of Unreality

We saw a similar dynamic at work on the international stage in the final days of August, when an apparent Russian military incursion into Ukraine—and a relatively minor one at that—was made to feel momentously threatening. Putin invoked the need for talks on the statehood of southeastern Ukraine (with language that seemed almost purposefully ambiguous), leaving NATO stunned and Kiev intimidated enough to agree to a ceasefire.

(Press office of President) Speech of the President at the meeting of the Cabinet of Ministers

(The Guardian) Azov fighters are Ukraine's greatest weapon and may be its greatest threat

The Azov, one of many volunteer brigades to fight alongside the Ukrainian army in the east of the country, has developed a reputation for its fearlessness in battle.

But there is an increasing worry that while the Azov and other volunteer battalions might be Ukraine's most potent and reliable force on the battlefield against the separatists, they also pose the most serious threat to the Ukrainian government, and perhaps even the state, when the conflict in the east is over. The Azov causes particular concern due to the far-right, even neo-Nazi leanings of many of its members

Edited September 10, 2014 by surpher

[ProfTournesol 956]

(Vice News) Russian Roulette Dispatch 78 : among Pro Russian fighters

mw_i74BFJ_U

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 18:59 ----------

(The interpreter) Russian Journalist Describes Detention, Torture of Detainees By Russian-Backed Separatists

[surpher 1]

(NewsWeek) Russian Soldiers Reveal the Truth Behind Putin's Secret War

I had no idea we were to go to Ukraine; we all believed they brought us to a base for the usual routine exercises. If I knew it was for war, I’d have quit back in Kostroma

[Tonci87 163]

(NewsWeek) Russian Soldiers Reveal the Truth Behind Putin's Secret War

The Russian soldiers and their families are really beeing shafted.....

[JdB 151]

Meanwhile those they leave behind are called "traitors", "liars" and "provocateurs" by puppets of the Kremlin for worrying about their loved ones. I wonder how much more denial of the Russian armed forces' sacrifices it would take for some in the officer cadre to turn on Putin.

[surpher 1]

(Reuters) New sanctions against Russia to take effect on Friday

The new EU sanctions are expected to put Russia's top oil producers and pipeline operators Rosneft, Transneft and Gazprom Neft on a list of Russian state-owned firms that will not be allowed to raise capital or borrow on European markets, an EU diplomat said.

[beastcat 14]

Gazprom sent 45% less gas to Poland than they were supposed to.

Source: Just google it and pick whatever source you like

Looks like project "Build a huge fucking wall on the border to russia" is going full steam ahead.

So far 1500 kilometers of trenches, 4000 sheltered positions and 60km of "unexplodable barricades" (Maybe someone has a better name for that) are being built as phase one of the plan.

If they reach phase two, they want to build a second line of defense. Also a 2300km wall is considered (For comparison, the USA-Mexico border is 3,145km long, so I guess its very veeery optimistic).

Welt.de - Ukraine secures border to Russia

Edited September 11, 2014 by beastcat

[surpher 1]

(Reuters) 'Parmigiano-Belarussiano' and other secrets of Russian chefs under food ban

Belarus provides an obvious loophole. Minsk has imposed no ban on imports from the EU and has a customs union agreement with Moscow, which means products can be brought into Belarus legally and shipped to Russia with no border checks.

Two chefs said this was an increasingly common practice. Belarus has become a source not only of Italian cheese but of fruit and vegetables, all bearing phoney Belarus labels.

[oxmox 73]

Gazprom sent 45% less gas to Poland than they were supposed to.

Source: Just google it and pick whatever source you like

Looks like project "Build a huge fucking wall on the border to russia" is going full steam ahead.

http://img.welt.de/img/ausland/crop132131278/0916609296-ci3x2s-w300-ai2x3l/title.jpg

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/479508247-an-ukraine-soldier-shows-a-trench-dug-in-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXk5WzQ9h1QMcN5cB6T%2BIwGBsBG EnkoJQXa3P%2B3%2Bvnvps

So far 1500 kilometers of trenches, 4000 sheltered positions and 60km of "unexplodable barricades" (Maybe someone has a better name for that) are being built as phase one of the plan.

If they reach phase two, they want to build a second line of defense. Also a 2300km wall is considered (For comparison, the USA-Mexico border is 3,145km long, so I guess its very veeery optimistic).

Welt.de - Ukraine secures border to Russia

That means the the split of the Ukraine is already decided ? Anyway, I wonder why they are building a defence line which reminds on world war 1.

Smoke on the water and hot panties

Music is stronger than war.....

:D

Edited September 11, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]

That means the the split of the Ukraine is already decided ? Anyway, I wonder why they are building a defence line which reminds on world war 1.

It's less of a construct for defending, but more to slow down a possible invasion in order to be able to respond in time. Noone is going to be sitting in the trenches, its too deep to be useful anyway. To cross them you need special equipment that will bee seen in advance and even if its not, it will still buy time for a response if the russians will try to cross it. The towers are purely for spotting.

Finally something a little bit less depressing than usual:

Rostov, Kamenskaya

Edited September 11, 2014 by beastcat

[aleksadragutin 9]

It's less of a construct for defending, but more to slow down a possible invasion in order to be able to respond in time. Noone is going to be sitting in the trenches, its too deep to be useful anyway. To cross them you need special equipment that will bee seen in advance and even if its not, it will still buy time for a response if the russians will try to cross it. The towers are purely for spotting.

Waste of good money. None of that could stop a modern army, especially one such as Russian.

[beastcat 14]

Waste of good money. None of that could stop a modern army, especially one such as Russian.

Again, its not for stopping, its for slowing down. Did you even read what I wrote?

[Tonci87 163]

That thing would slow down the Russians for merely an hour at best.....

Russian Pioneers are the best and would blast a hole+crossing into that thing in no time. That border is a waste of money.

[mistyronin 1181]

[beastcat 14]

That thing would slow down the Russians for merely an hour at best.....

Russian Pioneers are the best and would blast a hole+crossing into that thing in no time. That border is a waste of money.

I remember in some interview some time ago they said that even if it will hold them back for 5 minutes they will consider the trench successful. Also most of the excavators have been donated by the respective regions anyway, so yeah.

[Dwarden 1124]

I would say that such fence has mainly effect to prevent smugglers, small incursions, immigrants etc.

Europe has something similar near border with Turkey

[spooky lynx 73]

That border is a waste of money.

This. That's the main reason of its construction. I suppose that contract for development and construction will be signed with the ventures either held by oligarchs currently ruling the country or affiliated with them. So everybody are happy. Average Mikola gets another patriotic picture, Kolomoisky & Co gets another billion.

[aleksadragutin 9]

I remember in some interview some time ago they said that even if it will hold them back for 5 minutes they will consider the trench successful. Also most of the excavators have been donated by the respective regions anyway, so yeah.

You need manpower, not just tools. That costs, a lot.

As for slowing it down, any good army would clear it in no time. You don't even need expensive resources, just some explosives, mine cleaners, and ramps. And even if they couldn't clear it, there are always airborne troops which land behind it.

Ukraine couldn't organize it's army for months now, so 5 min or even a day wouldn't help much.

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------

This. That's the main reason of its construction. I suppose that contract for development and construction will be signed with the ventures either held by oligarchs currently ruling the country or affiliated with them. So everybody are happy. Average Mikola gets another patriotic picture, Kolomoisky & Co gets another billion.

That's how it usually works.

[spooky lynx 73]

BTW such wall would stop not Russian but Ukrainian army. From fleeing to Russia:)

Translate:

Chelyabinsk meteor - few seconds of flight had been recorded by tens of phones, cameras and dashcams.

Russian army - that SOBs drive across the Ukraine for months already and remain invisible for all kinds of gadgets.

[beastcat 14]

I just looked up how much it would cost to excavate the trench with german pricing and I got 12.000.000€ (Thats almost 3 T-84-120 tanks). Now just consider that this is the pricing I found on a german website, that excavating this much will be cheaper per m³, that the earth does not need to be transported away and that many of the work is being done by volunteers with volunteered tech.

[aleksadragutin 9]

I just looked up how much it would cost to excavate the trench with german pricing and I got 12.000.000€ (Thats almost 3 T-84-120 tanks). Now just consider that this is the pricing I found on a german website, that excavating this much will be cheaper per m³, that the earth does not need to be transported away and that many of the work is being done by volunteers with volunteered tech.

Not just a trench, it's a defense line, with towers, walls, fences, barricades, mines etc.

[beastcat 14]

Not just a trench, it's a defense line, with towers, walls, fences, barricades, mines etc.

The towers are 20km apart and the enforcements are planned to be built on the Lugansk border (Which is not under ukrainian control as of right now, so we'll see if it will happen at all).

[aleksadragutin 9]

The towers are 20km apart and the enforcements are planned to be built on the Lugansk border (Which is not under ukrainian control as of right now, so we'll see if it will happen at all).

So basically a ditch?