Ukraine General

[beastcat 14]

Humanitarian aid drivers in Donetsk

[spooky lynx 73]

Meanwhile in Germany some people think it's not only Putin's and Russia's fault for MH-17 crash and make a lawsuit against Ukraine.

P.S. Sorry if repost, couldn't read recent pages due to overdose of russophobia. Sorry.

[Rydygier 1317]

http://www.rp.pl/artykul/956150,1141083-Karaganow--Rosja-sie-nie-cofnie.html

Russia is much stronger, and the West much weaker than it seems to you in the West - writes in Monday's "Financial Times" one of the most famous Russian analysts.

Sergei Karaganov, president of the National Research University in Moscow, is one of the most listened in Moscow and Western analysts. His article in Monday's "Financial Times" will be read from Warsaw to Washington.

"The West today is not confident alliance, who announced the winner of the Cold War. This is moving aimlessly, mired in economic problems herd, which lost its own moral values​​. America and its allies decided once about the future, but at the beginning of the era of Asia let her sneak out of their hands. Their greatest achievement was globalization, which is now destroyed using sanctions ".

Karaganov describes a nation that is united behind President Putin, because he has studied the lessons of history and is ready to raise Russia out of the knee. A prominent political analyst, advisor of all successive rulers of Russia from Gorbachev, says bluntly: "Russia did not withdraw. This is for us a matter of life and death."

Using the vocabulary typical of Soviet diplomacy, Karaganov warns that "lasting peace in Europe is a worthy goal, but it can only be achieved through mutual respect and mutual recognition of legitimate interests." He adds: "Even for such Europhiles like me will be hard to argue for political union with Europe, which abandons, I hope only temporarily, Christianity and traditional values."

Karaganov's article is very important, because it is an expression of belief a large part of the Russian intelligentsia. This is an act of homage to the Kremlin and a set of arguments which - although quite empty (Karaganov not explain eg., How weak West and rotting NATO could threaten Russia so that it is for her a matter of life and death) - are more or less coherently presented by a large part of Russian society. Also justify any behavior of the Kremlin, from the invasion of the Ukraine after the censorship and restricting freedom of speech.

Interesting, how intelligent people can en masse share opinion, that is, as pointed, that illogical.

[Dwarden 1125]

I think Ukraine learned sad lesson "If you want peace, You prepare for war" as if You unprepared, the invader always win ...

[mistyronin 1181]

I've received this interesting Polish news:

( Defence 24, translated by Google ) Russian systems Pancyr-S1 in the hands of separatists

( wp, again Google translated ) Russia has blocked the Sami trip to the congress organized by the United Nations

For those who don't know, the Sami are the native people from Lapland, most still nomad moving across Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia Northern lands ( some even sleep in tents even at -40C... ).

Edited September 22, 2014 by MistyRonin

[spooky lynx 73]

I think Ukraine learned sad lesson "If you want peace, You prepare for war" as if You unprepared, the invader always win ...

Unfortunately it hadn't learnt another one: "don't dig a pit for someone - you'll fall into it". Now old debts for support of rebellions in other country are becoming actual (greetings to former Argo batallion that helped to commit crimes in Abhasia and other UNA-UNSO folks that travelled freely to Chechnya and helped a lot to commit genocide against all non-Chechens, even their fellow Ukrainians).

[Dwarden 1125]

Unfortunately it hadn't learnt another one: "don't dig a pit for someone - you'll fall into it". Now old debts for support of rebellions in other country are becoming actual (greetings to former Argo batallion that helped to commit crimes in Abhasia and other UNA-UNSO folks that travelled freely to Chechnya and helped a lot to commit genocide against all non-Chechens, even their fellow Ukrainians).

ye, while the pro-Russian Nazi/islam/national fanatic tourists aren't committing crimes

you know some of these 'fighters' have theirs story in Balkan wars, middle east, wars in Armenia, Chechnya, Georgia, Abkhazia, Moldova etc.

in the light of recent events I would not be shocked if some countries decide to strip owners of Russian passports of rights to claim permanent citizenship as long as they Russian citizens

otherwise they can work as Trojan horse later ... already been proven dozen times

[oxmox 73]

Facebook Propaganda: Defence Secretary in Kiev gets nothing but scorn and derision for the report about a nuclear strike

It was at the end too much of Propaganda: The ukrainian Defence Secretary claimed Luhansk was hit by russian nuclear weapons. He had also accept lectures within his own ranks about weapon technology.

"The ukrainian Defence Secretary seems to be out of his senses" writes the Moscow foreign politician Alexej Pushkow on Facebook. The Ministry of Defence in Moscow rants that the ukrainian Defence Secretary is afflicted by "paranoia".

The reason for the fierce reaction: According to a report from the dpa press agency, Minister Walerij Geletej did talk about an alleged attack in the conflict area of Luhansk. Russian nuclear weapons were used. Walerij Geletej did claim in talks with Journalists that the airport of the east russian town was potentially shelled with nuclear warheads of the type "2S4 Tjulpan".

He was not only slammed for it in Russia but in his own country: Anton Gerashchenko, member of the interior ministry, did become anxious in public that the Ukraine would be making a fool of itself in front of the world.

"After the use of tactical nuclear weapons against the airport in Luhansk our own guys in the trenches would not have get out alive" Gerashchenko commented on Facebook.

Either the Minister of Defence was mistaken or he dont know anything about nuclear weapons or conventional weapons. He did make clear if a nuclear warhead would have exploded, close by life would have been annihilated.

Gunfire at Donetzk

In reality there are still fights in Donetzk: The city Donetzk was shattered by explosions on Monday. Gunfire was heard around the airport of Donetzk, press agency dpa reported. Wheras the rebells and the ukrainian government did agree with a cease fire at the beginning of September. Every combat units should have been retreated with a 15km buffer zone.

The cease fire was already broken on the weekend.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-minister-erntet-spott-fuer-bericht-ueber-atomschlag-a-993149.html

Edited September 23, 2014 by oxmox

[surpher 1]

This private video shows allegedly the incident - What is burning and exploding here, fuel tanks ?

Its a chemical factory in Donetsk.

According to a report from the dpa press agency, Minister Walerij Geletej did talk about an alleged attack in the conflict area of Luhansk.

Can you provide a source for this report.

[Dwarden 1125]

it's been known that high quality airburst weapons can be mistaken by untrained observers for tactical nuclear weapons ...

Chinese faced same problem when then tried to poke Russian bear ...

[oxmox 73]

Its a chemical factory in Donetsk.

Can you provide a source for this report.

Alright, if the video has nothing to do with the airport I will delete it then.

The source of the article is spiegel.de a leading main news magazine, if you want to look for the dpa press agency its here: http://www.dpa.de/English.82.0.html. The dpa is actually the biggest press agency in germany, like Reuters in the UK.

Edited September 23, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]

Its a chemical factory in Donetsk.

Whats interesting, is that according to a district council deputy the shell didn't hit the main explosives storage where 2,500 tons of explosives were stored, so the people did get kinda lucky.

[spooky lynx 73]

ye, while the pro-Russian Nazi/islam/national fanatic tourists aren't committing crimes

Care to explain what crimes do you mean with some links proving them? I can do it about crimes committed by UA troops and NG but that links will be removed as gore/explicit content (so I'll post them only if moderators will permit and won't delete them at least for a couple of days). Can you?

you know some of these 'fighters' have theirs story in Balkan wars, middle east, wars in Armenia, Chechnya, Georgia, Abkhazia, Moldova etc.

Exactly. Just as one French gentleman that widely helped Croatians during Yugoslavian civil war (and helping Ukrainian NG almost since its creation now). And UNSO folks that took part in wars in that Armenia, Chechnya, Georgia, Abhasia (cheers for Argo batallion again!), Moldova. They volunteered to take part in the war against Abhasians and Russians and pro-Russian Chechens in early 90's with no resistance (or even maybe with support) from Kiev central authorities and SBU. They armed regimes openly hostile to Russia with great pleasure. So, oh the irony, payback came. And now Abhasian and Russian volunteers help their own separatists.

in the light of recent events I would not be shocked if some countries decide to strip owners of Russian passports of rights to claim permanent citizenship as long as they Russian citizens

otherwise they can work as Trojan horse later ... already been proven dozen times

You know, all that jihadists who are fighting in Syria and Iraq now and came there from UK or Belgium - they don't have Afghan or Libyan or Saudi citizenship. Do you understand what I mean?

Edited September 23, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[ProfTournesol 956]

You know, all that jihadists who are fighting in Syria and Iraq now and came there from UK or Belgium - they don't have Afghan or Libyan or Saudi citizenship. Do you understand what I mean?

But the little difference is that they aren't backed by their country, while Russian fighters in Ukraine are celebrated by the Russian authorities (and trained, and equiped, and...). At least 100 French jihadists coming back from IS have been arrested and are going to be trialed. How many Russian fighters in Ukraine have been arrested in Russia ?

[spooky lynx 73]

But the little difference is that they aren't backed by their country, while Russian fighters in Ukraine are celebrated by the Russian authorities (and trained, and equiped, and...). At least 100 French jihadists coming back from IS have been arrested and are going to be trialed. How many Russian fighters in Ukraine have been arrested in Russia ?

Are you sure thay aren't backed and sponsored by various islamic funds and diasporas stationed across the Middle East and Europe? Have you seen any condemnation of them by Saudi, Qatari, UAE or Jordanian authorities? Correct me if it was but I haven't seen any. At least 100 French jihadists are arrested, okay. How many of them are already got real sentence or will get it for sure? How many were arrested in Belgium, UK, Netherlands, Denmark?

[carlostex 38]

(...) all that jihadists who are fighting in Syria and Iraq now and came there from UK or Belgium(...)

All of them yeah...

Tell me why Pussy Riot in Sochi were called "American whores"... You know you might think otherwise, but in America i hardly hear or see population mentioning women as "Russian whores", maybe because there's no hate towards Russia or no "butt-hurt" feelings because of a cold war that supposedly ended years ago. Since Putin is in power American hate and prejudice is on the high again.

[surpher 1]

Alright, if the video has nothing to do with the airport I will delete it then.

The source of the article is spiegel.de a leading main news magazine, if you want to look for the dpa press agency its here: http://www.dpa.de/English.82.0.html. The dpa is actually the biggest press agency in germany, like Reuters in the UK.

I already searched the dpa site for "Walerij Geletej" and it gives no results. Doesn't appear to be anything on there twitter account either.

[oxmox 73]

I already searched the dpa site for "Walerij Geletej" and it gives no results. Doesn't appear to be anything on there twitter account either.

You have to get in contact with them if you want more informations from the dpa, almost all of the print media is using dpa among others. Aswell foreign agencies i.e. reuters or whatever. Its easy to find more article from other print medias i.e. FAZ or Focus, both are other good sources as example. FAZ - Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung is one of the most famous and prestigious newspaper and Focus another leading news magazine, there is more of course. The spiegel magazine from where I did translate the article is one of the key print media in germany.

here for example - FAZ is reporting about the same:

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/verteidigungsminister-sorgt-mit-bericht-ueber-atomschlag-fuer-gespoett-13168217.html

The dpa press agency does not release news on their webpage, access to print articles is only for customers probably aswell their online archive.

Why do you want to get more infos from the press agency ?

edit: Waleri Geletej should be the correct name used by the german media, was a typo.

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

Tell me why Pussy Riot in Sochi were called "American whores"... You know you might think otherwise, but in America i hardly hear or see population mentioning women as "Russian whores"

This has probably to do with the rumors around Pussy Riot. These rumors say that Pussy Riot is getting financed by the Moscow Helsinki group which itself is supported by the US organisation "National Endowment for Democracy" ( NED ) which has allegedly close connections to the CIA. Some take these rumors or half facts credibly and voila....

Edited September 23, 2014 by oxmox

[Tonci87 163]

Exactly. Just as one French gentleman that widely helped Croatians during Yugoslavian civil war (and helping Ukrainian NG almost since its creation now).

That little french shit is still alive?

He came to Croatia with a small group of french neo nazis because they thought that Croatia wanted to become a fashist state. Well the Croatian troops simply used them as cannon fooder. They left when they realised that they didn´t have a future there and lost enough men. So now they are trying the same thing in Ukraine?

[ProfTournesol 956]

That little french shit is still alive?

He came to Croatia with a small group of french neo nazis because they thought that Croatia wanted to become a fashist state. Well the Croatian troops simply used them as cannon fooder. They left when they realised that they didn´t have a future there and lost enough men. So now they are trying the same thing in Ukraine?

What's ironic is how Russian official press welcomes the handfull of far right French extremists fighting along with the Pro Russian separatists (i already posted about them here)...i didn't read anything about some of them fighting on the other side, but everything is possible with this kind of people...

[spooky lynx 73]

That little french shit is still alive?

Exactly. And monsieur Besson feels very well. At least now.

[oxmox 73]

I never heard about this person, but with a short google search you find this. No idea if the infos are correct, but he is active in the Ukraine shown in the video:

Gaston Besson

Coordinator

Ukrainian International Legion / Bataillon Azov

https://www.facebook.com/gastonbessonmercenaire/posts/737623922976593

[Tonci87 163]

I wouldn´t be too concerned about those lunatics. When they were in Croatia they much more prefered to "play soldier" instead of really fighting. Some of them even had German WW2 SS uniforms they liked to parade around. Those guys turn up everywhere they think that fashists are fighting for a fashist state. Well they were horribly wrong with Croatia and it will be the same with Ukraine. Every Nation has a little percentage of fashist idiots, Ukraine too, but I really don´t see any possibility that that country could become a fashist state. Russia on the other hand is certainly moving to a really authoritarian, not necessarily fashist, system, and that should really worry you Spooky.

[spooky lynx 73]

I wouldn´t be too concerned about those lunatics. When they were in Croatia they much more prefered to "play soldier" instead of really fighting. Some of them even had German WW2 SS uniforms they liked to parade around. Those guys turn up everywhere they think that fashists are fighting for a fashist state. Well they were horribly wrong with Croatia and it will be the same with Ukraine.

I'd like to agree with you but those lunatics are more or less experienced in real warfare and they help to train various batallions.

Every Nation has a little percentage of fashist idiots, Ukraine too, but I really don´t see any possibility that that country could become a fashist state. Russia on the other hand is certainly moving to a really authoritarian, not necessarily fashist, system, and that should really worry you Spooky.

From what I know none of Ustashi leaders were granted with the honorable award like 'Hero of Croatia' (something like 'Hero of Russia' award, don't know how Croatian equivalent is named). Stepan Bandera was. I don't know if any Croatian military or paramilitary detachment adopted former Third Reich symbols and slogans used by Ustashi. Ukrainian ones did after maidan. Correct me if I'm wrong but no representatives of openly far right nationalistic parties have the places in the Croatian government. In Ukrainian government they have it. I haven't seen any open hate speeches containing joy about died people and promise to hang all the federation supporters later about any non-Croatian nation from current Croatian officials. Ukrainian ones freely talk in such way. So?

P.S. I see how authoritarian my country is if some days ago several thousands of open Ukrainian actions supporters gathered in Moscow... Can you imagine the same gathering of separatist/pro-Russia supporters in Kiev?

P.P.S. I'm still waiting the photos or videos containing Russian troops with clear markings on Ukrainian land from one monsieur who stated that our army entered Ukraine;)

Edited September 24, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[Tonci87 163]

I don't know if any Croatian military or paramilitary detachment adopted former Third Reich symbols and slogans used by Ustashi. Ukrainian ones did after maidan.

There were quite a lot actually

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Defence_Forces

(if you switch to the Croatian language (Hrvatski) you can see some more unit insignias, most of them really resemble WW2 stuff)

Their leader got assasinated by government troops and the whole thing was absorbed into the regular military. Tuđman compared them to WW2 SS Units and considered them to be very dangerous. Curiously some members were suspected of war crimes, but nobody was ever sentenced because of something like that, suggesting that those were only rumors based on their selfmade reputation. They proved to be very good reliable and determined fighters, often the very first ones to attack, or the last ones to retreat. Many of them made careers in the military later on.