ballistics ArmA III Ballistics Overhaul WIP

[Spartan0536 189]

Main Post (First post first page) edited to reflect my new standards for calculating ballistics in ArmA III, if you have any questions or comments regarding my methods please let me know.

[Spartan0536 189]

IMPORTANT UPDATE INFORMATION (8/17/2014)!

I have slowly been working on getting the 7.62x51mm NATO rounds finished, and some of the pistol rounds finished including SMG barrel lengths. However that being said, please read what is typed below VERY CAREFULLY.....

Thanks to Blazenchamber and his clan for their SMA mod, I spent some time with them on their TeamSpeak server talking to them about my 5.56x45mm ballistics, what they presented me with in terms of data was shocking to say the least. In their mod which is of the highest quality IMO, they have a shooting range with tracer code and damage readout, this was NOT available to me during my testing or I would have reported the following information sooner. ArmA III BIS code is SEVERELY limiting my works accuracy as far as damage is concerned, I will briefly explain why in 2 points below...

1. Body Armor: Once equipped ALL body parts are covered (head is covered by helmet armor) this also includes extremities like hands, feet, arms, and legs with the SAME armor protection as the torso!

2. Armor Penetration: Unlike vehicles which have an Armor and HP system in place to determine if damage is done at all, BODY ARMOR is a FLAT negation to damage regardless of the penetration capability of the round! This means that shooting someone with a hollow point bullet will inherently still do more damage at 20 meters than an AP bullet when fired into a heavily armored personnel target!

[LoupVrt 14]

Good to know, thank you Spartan and thank you SMA crew.

I then assume that the point to use an AP bullet in Arma 3 would be to get through some surface before hitting the actual target, right?

(By the way, are you providing Ruthberg with data for his Advanced Ballistics project?) Nevermind, I just have read your input to his thread.

KUTGW Spartan, all the difficulties you are facing and going through will only make the final result more valuable to the community. Hopefully BI will take care not to ruin your efforts with the Sniper DLC. ;)

Edited August 17, 2014 by Kawa

[Spartan0536 189]

Good to know, thank you Spartan and thank you SMA crew.

I then assume that the point to use an AP bullet in Arma 3 would be to get through some surface before hitting the actual target, right?

(By the way, are you providing Ruthberg with data for his Advanced Ballistics project?) Nevermind, I just have read your input to his thread.

KUTGW Spartan, all the difficulties you are facing and going through will only make the final result more valuable to the community. Hopefully BI will take care not to ruin your efforts with the Sniper DLC. ;)

Thanks for the kind words and I hope so as well regarding BIS...

[Spartan0536 189]

UPDATE, 8/18/2014

After publicly speaking with Ruthberg the Author of Enhanced Ballistics I have decided to work cooperatively with his mods and provide him with the information that he needs so that our work coincides as much as possible.

[samyg 3]

Have you spoken with Robert Hammer as well?

[Spartan0536 189]

Have you spoken with Robert Hammer as well?

I have every intention on working with EricJ, RobertHammer, BlazenChamber, and Raid on making sure their mods are as accurate and compatible as can be, so should they choose. It would be minimal effort on their part, all I would need is the data on the weapons they are working on, mainly the names and types, everything else from there is handled by either myself or Ruthberg, all they would need to do is place the appropriate data in their mod config file.

[EricJ 763]

Well I'm a solid fan of your work so I'll be checking it, I will update the 7.62 stuff when you post it to update my related weapons.

[gibonez 18]

You guys are doing amazing work.

[Spartan0536 189]

Work In Progress Update....

I have calculated all of the velocities and AF values for 7.62x51mm NATO, and they are now in private testing, this includes all 4 different barrel lengths with 4 different types of bullets. All of the calculations based on ISA conditions are calculated to within 1-2% of Real Specs, this accuracy has been triple checked using 2 different professional ballistics calculators in "advanced" modes. Also I have been working on the 4 main pistol cartridges which are 9x19, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP, these bullets will also be featured at the same time as 7.62x51mm NATO. .300 AAC Blackout and 6.8x43mm SPC will also be released as a pair and both will only be featuring a standard barrel length (.300 AAC will be using the full size AAC Honey Badger as the standard, and 6.8x43mm will be using the M468/REC7 as the standard). If someone does end up making an LWRC PSD in 6.8 for ArmA III I will consider making an SBR ballistics value for 6.8x43mm SPC.

Along with all of this at the developers request and additional information given on their weapons I can also provide Ruthberg accurate details on the ballistics so that the mods are 100% compatible.

[miketim 20]

Good to hear.

Does this mean you did the 556 that RobertHammer and a few others I believe had been waiting for?

I sure hope so :)

[Spartan0536 189]

Good to hear.

Does this mean you did the 556 that RobertHammer and a few others I believe had been waiting for?

I sure hope so :)

The 5.56x45mm Ballistics have been finished for some time, in fact they are listed in my Completed thread. Its the 7.62x51mm NATO and Pistol rounds many people have been waiting for.

[EricJ 763]

And if you can slip it in, 6.5mm x 38 (MX) on a 14.5 inch barrel, got a personal project going on so if you can slip that in sometime I would appreciate it.

[Spartan0536 189]

And if you can slip it in, 6.5mm x 38 (MX) on a 14.5 inch barrel, got a personal project going on so if you can slip that in sometime I would appreciate it.

I have not done any research into 6.5x38mm Grendel, as a military round its not very good, the bullet necking is too long for high speed extration/feedeing to be reliable and in a belt fed system I would much rather take 7.62x51mm NATO. That being said I do have plans for Grendel down the road but at this time its kind of low priority. I plan on finishing 7.62x51mm NATO, 6.8SPC, .300 Blackout, .45ACP, 9x19 Para, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, 5.7x28 FN, .338 Lapua, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, and 5.45x39.

I will be working on adding a standard full size SMG barrel length to the following pistol calibers....

9x19 Para (based off of an MP5A5 SMG)

.40 S&W (based off of a H&K UMP40 SMG)

.45 ACP (based off of a TDI/Kriss Vector SMG)

5.7x28 FN (based off of an FN P90 SMG)

The reason why I will not be focusing on multiple barrel lengths for SMG's is that some are 5.5 inches, some a 6.1 and 6.4 and 7 inches, and some calibers have variations in performance and that performance with different ammunition is very difficult to calculate precisely without me spending a year or more to ensure accuracy.

Also having a 5.5 inch barrel SMG for .45 ACP vs the 8 inch barrel for the UMP40 does not mean that .45 will not be much more powerful than a hand gun, in fact its 1 inch longer in barrel length which maximizes standard and even +P velocities. .45 ACP powers are designed to burn real hot real fast, and there is not much powder to burn in a .45 which is why is it manageable in recoil and has a lower velocity, equate this from a full size 4.5 inch barrel handgun and put it into a 5.5 inch SMG barrel and you get optimal performance, at 6-6.5 inches the velocity may go up another 30-50 ft/s at best using +P values.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Spartan0536

[miketim 20]

Just curious, are you working with any addonmakers for those rounds? By that I mean, are you making those for addonmakers and/or specifically to improve a exsisting addons ballistics

[Spartan0536 189]

Just curious, are you working with any addonmakers for those rounds? By that I mean, are you making those for addonmakers and/or specifically to improve a exsisting addons ballistics

All of the ballistics at this point are being made for the 3rd party developers like RobertHammer and EricJ, as well as many others. Like I have stated my work is for the community to use, if you intend to use my ballistics code just cite my work/contribution in your credits, that is all I ask. There are thousands of different bullets out in the world, for me to cover them all is just absurd, I look at projects from various authors and their reviews by other members to get a feel of what ballistics takes priority. 5.56x45mm NATO was extremely under powered by BIS default that is why I worked on 5.56x45mm first, I have worked on other small ballistics that were easily obtained and well documented just to get them out of the way, sadly not all ballistics are as easy and finding different velocities for different bullets and different barrel lengths is a pain in the ass. I would be much easier if I only did 1 barrel length but this would cut down on realism overall, so I decided to take the most common barrel lengths in each category and work with those as a base, some weapons may not be completely accurate but as far as over default they are a night and day difference.

[EricJ 763]

Yeah I definitely have nothing but praise for his work man, his Mk318 SOST has really made my IAR real popular (a couple retired Marines love it too by the way) as I only use those rounds. I use nothing else and I use BIS mags only when I run low on ammo, so that equals no choice in the matter. Definitely use his rounds as I've done an SPR for 7-75 Regiment and tried it out with my personal mod and it's on point, all of his shit is. Matter of fact in my guns I include BIS mags because it makes sense, but not a preference.

But understood on the 6.5, my project gun still needs work so yeah I'll work with BIS shit for now.

And cool on the P90 as I found a P90 in my "armory" or whatever of models, so I may look into that sometime.

Edited September 1, 2014 by EricJ

[Von Quest 1163]

Wow, this is really detailed. Looking forward to seeing this developed. =)

[Spartan0536 189]

I did forget to mention that the Kriss Vector with a 5.5 inch barrel using +P .45 ammo will still be SUBSONIC at most likely 1025-1045 ft/s if you are using a 220 grain bullet (which I recommend for better terminal performance), if you use Ruthbergs ballistics enhancement mod this means that there is NO TRANS-SONIC CHANGE which destabilizes the projectile a great deal, this makes the Kriss Vector extremely powerful out to 100M easily. I would not recommend using any pistol caliber SMG past 100 or even pushing it to 150m, they will lose KE and velocity like crazy.

Simple rule of thumb...

Pistols: 0 - 50m MAX

SMG's: 0 - 150m MAX

PDW's: 0 - 200m MAX

SBR's: 0 - 350m MAX

AR's: 0 - 600m MAX

DMR's: 0 - 850/1000m MAX (1000m mark is for 7.62x51/7.62x54R using SNIPER/LONG RANGE LOADS)

SR's: 0 - 1800/2000m MAX (the 2000m mark is for .50 BMG/.416 Barrett/.408 Cheytac)

This listing is a general rule of thumb for MAX POINT effective range, you CAN make kills at farther ranges but its just not prudent. Jerry Miculek is a professional marksman, he can shoot a 9mm Handgun with body size accuracy at 100 yards easy, but taking a handgun to a fight that that range with someone else shooting at you with a more powerful shoulder fired weapon is likely going to get you killed. Personally if the target is 30m+ from me I do not like to use my sidearm if I can help it.

[galzohar 31]

Will this break compatibility with the sights? Meaning both the adjustment (page up/down) and the actual markings on the sight itself. Or are they already broken anyway?

[Spartan0536 189]

Will this break compatibility with the sights? Meaning both the adjustment (page up/down) and the actual markings on the sight itself. Or are they already broken anyway?

I have used default and 3rd party for my 5.56x45mm ballistics I have not seen any incompatibility in regards to range estimation and or drop. Even when using LRR scopes I checked targets at 300m and set the sights to 300m and bam, headshot as set. Even out to 800m with 5.56x45 using MK262 Mod 1's dead on accurate as far as drop goes with sighting.

[EricJ 763]

I'll have to agree as well, as the more I use the rounds I get more familiar and the best recommendation is to take it on the range and see how it interacts with your preferred scope. Me I use RH's ta31rco and an IAR and his Mk318 rounds and I've killed up to a squad size element (on a good day) of CSAT soldiers with that combination, so once you see how it interacts with each other you'll figure it out.

---------- Post added at 00:59 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------

By the way (I got to get started on the model sometime, but anyway) I also I'm requesting round values for these:

.50 BMG inch barrel

.416 Barret 45-inch barrel

.408 Cheytac 44-inch barrel

.375 Cheytac 45-inch barrel

.338 Lapua Magnum 44 inch barrel

Yes I know the wait time and fine with it. As said I have to start on the rifle sometimes so yeah.

Edited September 23, 2014 by EricJ

[EricJ 763]

Disregard on the 6.5 CL for my project gun, I scaled down to 5.56 for now.

[Spartan0536 189]

Ok so here is a SITREP of sorts, I have been working EVERY DAY at my new job this week so I have gotten very little done as far as ballistics go. That being said they are getting closer to completion and should be very very accurate in terms of drag performances and to an extent like any projectile in ArmA III realistic in terms of penetration values (keep in mind I do not control object densities in ArmA such as metal sheds that look paper thin but have 15mm of "steel" in them). I do have some VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION.....

Members of the 2nT Group, and specifically Tristen, if you intend to use my ballistics code and or a by-product of this I am REQUIRING YOU/YOUR CLAN to gain PUBLIC AUTHORIZATION FROM ME prior to using my code and or its by-products prior to any release, failure to do so will result in another infraction on this forum and additional further disciplinary action MAY be taken AT THE SOLE DISCRETION OF THE ADMINISTRATORS!

*Note: By-products are code in very very close values to what I write, if you intend to stake claim to your calculated value please provide a description on how you attained those values, I have written very specific code based on a very specific set of parameters, if those parameters are changed the code will inevitably be different from my code.

My standard "agreement" of including me in the credits still stands for any other developer, this slight change for a specific group only comes from an infraction they received from another developer.

[EricJ 763]

Rectified the barrel lengths, thought I put it down, my bad man.