Tonci87 163 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Today is the day to do something about this. Get more info here: https://thedaywefightback.org/international/ Edited February 11, 2014 by Tonci87 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lenyoga 326 Posted February 11, 2014 That might sound quite negative, but is something like that really likely to succeed or have any sort of impact on the situation? If there's a complex, huge superstate with several independent organizations engaging in criminal activities, a few petitions won't do anything but scratch the public image (which hasn't been the best since the 70s and 80s anyway). The only thing that might help would be a major change within that superstate, which isn't going to happen because of the political system, or an intervention by international organizations, which isn't going to happen, because they're mostly owned by that same superstate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 11, 2014 That might sound quite negative, but is something like that really likely to succeed or have any sort of impact on the situation? If there's a complex, huge superstate with several independent organizations engaging in criminal activities, a few petitions won't do anything but scratch the public image (which hasn't been the best since the 70s and 80s anyway). The only thing that might help would be a major change within that superstate, which isn't going to happen because of the political system, or an intervention by international organizations, which isn't going to happen, because they're mostly owned by that same superstate. Well the questions remains if doing nothing is a better idea.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krycek 349 Posted February 11, 2014 Well I signed it even though I kinda agree with Lenyoga.Petitions don't have a high success rate.Imo the only way to fight with this is either through legislative measures(multiple organizations putting pressure on them) or widespread protests. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bee8190 10 Posted February 11, 2014 Which are not going to happen either. Heck, most people are not even aware or...wait for it...don't even mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted February 11, 2014 Snowdenistas? ;) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10595021/Edward-Snowden-Did-the-American-whistleblower-act-alone.html http://www.amazon.com/The-Snowden-Operation-Greatest-Intelligence-ebook/dp/B00I0W61OY Above makes the point that none of the information Snowden leaked pertains to the mass surveillance conducted by Russia or China against their own citizens or beyond (both have listening posts in Cuba) even though details of it were certainly available to him. Todays campaign is also not directed at mass surveillance globally - the traffic in this is as usual all in one direction. Why is this not against Mass Surveillance wherever you may find it, that might be something worth supporting. Why is the mass surveillance conducted by certain nations (one is the fiefdom of an ex KGB agent) always ignored? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lenyoga 326 Posted February 11, 2014 Local demonstration and protests in favor of petitions that encourage local governments to get active on an international level and try to implement laws against that kind of surveillance would be something I'm in for, but organizing people and actually making those petitions and all the things not vanish within the slow and senile workings of governments will be a hard struggle... just remembering hundreds of signatures against shady laws around here that the responsible authorities suddenly "lost" ... Maintaining public pressure via protests and demonstrations with a clearly defined agenda would do the trick, as long as people stay on it and don't lose interest like a week after the whole Snowden thing which was apparently new and shocking to some. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sealife 22 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Hmmmm when all facts and rights to data protection acts are accounted you can use it to make a movie for £10 15 years ago and still going strong snowden didnt really reveal nothing new other than leaders were subject to same survielance as the business and public , iirc mark thomas late sent £10 and told them he believed he was filmed by the police and as per the law they sent him footage of them filming him filming them lol , iirc they edited it in a funny way . Edited February 11, 2014 by Sealife Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 11, 2014 Hmmmm when all facts and rights to data protection acts are accounted you can use it to make a movie for £10 15 years ago and still going strong snowden didnt really reveal nothing new other than leaders were subject to same survielance as the business and public , iirc mark thomas late sent £10 and told them he believed he was filmed by the police and as per the law they sent him footage of them filming him filming them lol , iirc they edited it in a funny way . That video was brilliant! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted February 11, 2014 Sorry is this a joke? Key participants: Yahoo, Google, Facebook... Kinda two faced, don't you think? They were the first entities who collaborated with the NSA thus allowing them to install backdoors in the key apps and set up the surveillance. Where were a few years ago when this surveillance shit started? Some serious brass to do that :/ Most people don't know what to think anymore, and signing another petition is viewed as another "data collection" act. What you can do? Remove your facebook and google account and dump you google smartphone into the canal. Stop feeding them with the information your parents, wives and kids don't know about you and adivse your relatives to do the same thing. That would be a lot more useful than sighing yet another petition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniperwolf572 758 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Sorry is this a joke? Key participants: Yahoo, Google, Facebook... Kinda two faced, don't you think? They were the first entities who collaborated with the NSA thus allowing them to install backdoors in the key apps and set up the surveillance. There is a difference between freely cooperating and cooperating under threats and gag orders. See Lavabit. While I agree that, yes, these companies will track and collect your personal information, it's one thing to hoard it for themselves for profit and a whole other thing when that information is forced to be handed over to a third party under threats for whatever purposes. Edited February 11, 2014 by Sniperwolf572 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted February 11, 2014 Hi all I see no problem with the board of every company in the world, every government, government department, political party and loby group being forced to be recorded and available to the public 24 hours a day. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Kind Regards walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JdB 151 Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Sorry is this a joke? Key participants: Yahoo, Google, Facebook... Kinda two faced, don't you think? They were the first entities who collaborated with the NSA thus allowing them to install backdoors in the key apps and set up the surveillance. Where were a few years ago when this surveillance shit started? Some serious brass to do that :/ And besides the "national security" side of their business model they harvest and use data on a far greater level than the NSA. The NSA keeps track of metadata and use it to determine who needs their special attention, these companies use every scrap of personal info from everything everyone does to make money. I find that a lot more shameful than using data to keep the country and you allies safe and to gain the upper hand in the political, military and economical struggle with other powers which could at least be explained as somewhat beneficial to everyone in the country and not just the happy few. Ironic to see the Chinese, Russians, Germans and French (among others) crying about data-mining to their constituency when they do the exact same thing and far worse. In the US the only prisoners outside of the legal system are on Guantanamo Bay (which many Americans want to close), the Russians and Chinese have entire prison colonies in remote areas for enemies of the state. I'm a lot more concerned for the well-being of the inhabitants of those countries and the (effects of the) intelligence efforts those regimes unleash on their own people. Not much protesting going on against these dictatorships. Then again protesting against them might get you into serious trouble where protesting the US intelligence agencies' modus operandi will at the very worst get your name put on a list of potential terrorists and your phone + internet monitored which still wouldn't matter unless you try to actually hurt people. Print a poster the government for some reason doesn't like in China or Russia and you disappear or you get murdered in a "failed robbery attempt". The only people that need to be concerned about being monitored are the people that should be getting monitored for the sake of every person going about their daily lives. (Potential) terrorists, criminals etc. The one thing I am concerned about is the use of data collected by intelligence agencies being passed on to corporations to gain an edge over foreign competitors, but that is just as much the fault of the general public's attitude towards these multinationals like those mentioned by Sudayev. Edited February 12, 2014 by JdB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted February 12, 2014 Well the 11th has now passed behind the international date line. It is now no longer the 11th anywhere on the planet. Number crunching: 238,588 signatures collected. 2,857,200,000 internet users world wide. that's just 0.008% epic fail or what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 12, 2014 I think they fucked up on the advertising. I only heard about this stuff that exact day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lenyoga 326 Posted February 12, 2014 I think they fucked up on the advertising. I only heard about this stuff that exact day. Yeah, it's also the support those things get by the media. One of our online newspapers only mentioned it once, on the 11th... while a lot of other, less interesting things get public exposure a week before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) If people were interested, I'm sure they would be searching for news and information on this and circumventing the mass media as many on this site do. Are you sure the low turnout isn't due to lack of interest? It must be a factor? Nevemind, perhaps anyone interested can fight back again another day? Edited February 12, 2014 by Mattar_Tharkari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krycek 349 Posted February 12, 2014 Doubt that most that didn't agreed with mass surveillance before,suddenly don't care about it.The lack of interest could be attributed to the bad rap that petitions have in general and don't solve anything.Like I said before there are other more practical means to combat this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted February 12, 2014 There is a difference between freely cooperating and cooperating under threats and gag orders. See Lavabit.While I agree that, yes, these companies will track and collect your personal information, it's one thing to hoard it for themselves for profit and a whole other thing when that information is forced to be handed over to a third party under threats for whatever purposes. Come on, how many times has Google been condemned for having stolen personal datas without giving a sh** about national laws, ONLY on commercial purpose. I remember at least 3 times in France, the last one this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniperwolf572 758 Posted February 12, 2014 Come on, how many times has Google been condemned for having stolen personal datas without giving a sh** about national laws, ONLY on commercial purpose. I remember at least 3 times in France, the last one this week. "Oh come on, how many times has Person X bullied me and taken my lunch money, now he's being a hypocrite and has no right to complain about Person Y kidnapping him and forcing him into human trafficking". If you read my post really really carefully, you'll notice I don't say that Google is a saint. But even so, why refuse help to fight a common enemy? I'm just saying it makes more sense to fight this alongside Google and others than without or against them. Think Game of Thrones. Or WW2. :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MissionCreep 12 Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Hi allI see no problem with the board of every company in the world, every government, government department, political party and loby group being forced to be recorded and available to the public 24 hours a day. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Kind Regards walker That is one of only 2 options for a model of privacy. One model is unbreakable secrecy where nobody knows what anyone else is doing, the other is mandatory full disclosure for governments, individuals, corporations etc. Everything else is an unenforceable mish-mash of information privilege with blurred lines that will never work to the satisfaction of most people. This issue will be with us forever. Edited February 12, 2014 by MissionCreep Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas 5 Posted February 13, 2014 I'm one of the ones that doesn't give a crap if the NSA has tapped my phone, computer, or anything. If they want to see or listen to my conversations I have with my friends and family, let them. I don't have anything to hide or be ashamed of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr burns 131 Posted February 13, 2014 http://nothing-to-hide-demo.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html ^^ needs to be here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lenyoga 326 Posted February 13, 2014 http://nothing-to-hide-demo.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html^^ needs to be here Saw the article on Rock, Paper, Shotgun... I'm kind of feeling outdated at my age already, it's running slow on my PC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 13, 2014 I'm one of the ones that doesn't give a crap if the NSA has tapped my phone, computer, or anything. If they want to see or listen to my conversations I have with my friends and family, let them. I don't have anything to hide or be ashamed of. You got nothing to hide? OK, please share your intimate thoughts with the rest of us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
