Toadie's SmallArms and Animations for Arma3

[demon138761 10]

Personally while i would love to have a M1903 as stated it really isn't a good idea to let someone buy your time like that.

[toadie2k 799]

If all works out well in the end, then all is well and everyone is happy. But a Burnout really shouldn't be taken lightly. It can take people months to recover from a burnout, if at all.

 

 

I'd rather he work on what that community want first, no what some queue jumping rich git wants. Would you be so enthusiastic if the commission was for a Lorcin? Because accepting this sets a bad precedent.

Yeah, for these two reasons, I'm going to see if I can renegotiate the terms so that the existing work order gets some time to itself. If not, it's a no-go. As cool it would have been, I'd rather not set that precedent.

[CyDoNgr 28]

Hello toddie!

Me and my community are really happy and thankful with your work. As every other person here I have a requests:

 

 

1. Would you be kind enough to have Tracers of all colors for all your weapons? It's odd to play western armies and have G3 shoot green tracers.
2. Any chances of standard G3A3 and G3A4 Models? Since most communities use G3SG1 to represent G3A3

 

Thanx in advance you are awesome

[Chaingunfighter 103]

I'd rather he work on what that community want first, no what some queue jumping rich git wants. Would you be so enthusiastic if the commission was for a Lorcin? Because accepting this sets a bad precedent.     

I wouldn't care, more weapons is more weapons. I didn't particularly care too much for the SIG 510s before I actually learned about them, but that doesn't mean I'm not happy Toadie made them.

 

Regardless, my opinion is completely worthless so who cares?

[Roach_ 52]

What happened to the SIG 510s?

[war_lord 934]

What happened to the SIG 510s?

Delays in getting proper ballistics off of Spartan.

[Roach_ 52]

Delays in getting proper ballistics off of Spartan.

Oh yeah right, jesus I forgot, thanks. For a second I thought I had been missing them this whole time.

[Kilroy95 29]

If the commission is really an M1903, then please do it. ;)

I'd love a M1903! With all the many variants (ie. Peterson Device, Air Service, Bushmaster, snipers, A1, A2, A3, etc). Toadie, if you decide to do that I own a M1903A3 and I could get you reference pictures.

[krakenz 10]

Thank you toadie2k about my problem with the ACE ballistics, seem to be working fine now, i cant describe how much i love your AWM! Thank you very much! But i`ve noticed some weird shit with units, wearing armor, it appears that they are resistant to 3-5 hits, even a clear headshot wont finish them off. Is that a common problem? I suspect that increasing "hit" value will do the job but i can only manage to unrap the config file, dunno how to pack it all again.

[toadie2k 799]

Thank you toadie2k about my problem with the ACE ballistics, seem to be working fine now, i cant describe how much i love your AWM! Thank you very much! But i`ve noticed some weird shit with units, wearing armor, it appears that they are resistant to 3-5 hits, even a clear headshot wont finish them off. Is that a common problem? I suspect that increasing "hit" value will do the job but i can only manage to unrap the config file, dunno how to pack it all again.

Yeah, this is a problem, a known one.  The short answer, is that the ballistics calculations Spartan did were based on some inaccurate assumptions (on the game side, not the real-world bullet side). He's got a new algorithm in the works(largely that's why there's been the delay on the SIG/GP11 ballistics), and when he's got it 100% sorted, he'll be pushing out much more representative terminally effective rounds, and I'll be updating all the ballistics in my stuff to bring in line.

[colosseum 34]

I vaguely remember seeing a post in this thread (maybe it was the OP that has since been edited) that appeared to show a bunch of "one off" weapons that were in the works - stuff like an SMLE, Sterling, Sten, etc.  Any idea what happened to that?

 

I'd love a little bit more variety in the available A3 weapons.  ARs and AKs are great but having some more vintage stuff would be most welcome. Especially with the excellent animations and ballistics toadie provides!

[Chaingunfighter 103]

I vaguely remember seeing a post in this thread (maybe it was the OP that has since been edited) that appeared to show a bunch of "one off" weapons that were in the works - stuff like an SMLE, Sterling, Sten, etc.  Any idea what happened to that?

 

I'd love a little bit more variety in the available A3 weapons.  ARs and AKs are great but having some more vintage stuff would be most welcome. Especially with the excellent animations and ballistics toadie provides!

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/161119-toadies-smallarms-wip-thread/

 

As far as I'm aware most of the weapons in that pack were discontinued because they were models originally made for other games/mods. All of Toadie's new work is being done from scratch, which is honestly for the better. Some of those models made it into his various already released packs, though.

[Ranwer135 308]

Arma 3 CAT Character Animation Rig for 3DS Max 2010/2011

CAT Rig+Sample Sequences

The CAT skeleton is rigged as simply as possible, and in the way that most suits how I animate(which is primarily IK). If you're all about FK, or you want to add helper objects and things, I encourage it, this is a free-to-use resource. The only two things you really shouldn't fuck with are the weapon and launcher bone helpers. Leave them EXACTLY as they are. Change the constraints on the bones they control, or trying to link constraint to them WILL end very badly. Trust me. If you do change it, I encourage to share it on the BIS forums, I am curious to see how other people set up their own CAT rigs.

I've left some notes in the max files too, have a quick read of them before you begin. I've also provided my M60 Animation files as samples of how it's done. Just word of advice though, don't take the moving parts in them to be exportable to Oxygen, that's all done by hand ;)

 

 

Will this work for the new 2014, 2015 and 2016 versions for 3DS Max? I am on a student version at the moment, and am not looking forward to have to pay a hefty fee just to use one rig.

[toadie2k 799]

Will this work for the new 2014, 2015 and 2016 versions for 3DS Max? I am on a student version at the moment, and am not looking forward to have to pay a hefty fee just to use one rig.

Yesum. As long as your version has CAT(which I think is 2010 and up), you're good. I've got a nicer one on the way too, with actual rigged character which should make working with it helluva lot easier.

 

I vaguely remember seeing a post in this thread (maybe it was the OP that has since been edited) that appeared to show a bunch of "one off" weapons that were in the works - stuff like an SMLE, Sterling, Sten, etc. Any idea what happened to that?

I'd love a little bit more variety in the available A3 weapons. ARs and AKs are great but having some more vintage stuff would be most welcome. Especially with the excellent animations and ballistics toadie provides!

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/161119-toadies-smallarms-wip-thread/

 

As far as I'm aware most of the weapons in that pack were discontinued because they were models originally made for other games/mods. All of Toadie's new work is being done from scratch, which is honestly for the better. Some of those models made it into his various already released packs, though.

Basically this. A lot of that stuff was of varying quality, some wasn't up to snuff(as much as I respect BI's artists, that No.4 SMLE is TERRIBLE looking.), so most if it's been turfed to be redone. Like chaingunfighter suggested, I'll be building them from scratch so at least I have an amount of artistic control on the final product. It's worth noting that a good chunk of the WW2 period stuff still sits relatively high on the work list, so I don't expect you'll be waiting too long on it.

 

[Chaingunfighter 103]

Yesum. As long as your version has CAT(which I think is 2010 and up), you're good. I've got a nicer one on the way too, with actual rigged character which should make working with it helluva lot easier.

 

Basically this. A lot of that stuff was of varying quality, some wasn't up to snuff(as much as I respect BI's artists, that No.4 SMLE is TERRIBLE looking.), so most if it's been turfed to be redone. Like chaingunfighter suggested, I'll be building them from scratch so at least I have an amount of artistic control on the final product. It's worth noting that a good chunk of the WW2 period stuff still sits relatively high on the work list, so I don't expect you'll be waiting too long on it.

 

Yep, 8 of the next 20 guns currently on the list are from the Interwar/WW2 period, and that's not including the Bren Mk1 in the sideburner.

 

Obviously nothing is guaranteed until it gets finished and released but I think we've got plenty of classic guns on their way.

[Spartan0536 189]

I would like to thank everyone for their patience especially Toadie2k for me getting that ballistics work done, I have been working very closely with SMA on their 2.0-2.1 releases which took up the vast majority of my time and has helped me get my ballistics refined even further. After the hundreds of hours of work that I with other SMA members poured into the 2.0-2.1 releases I really just wanted to sit back and enjoy the work, I do not think that is too much to ask, and I can say the Tavor is my personal favorite. I have not stopped work, in fact the other day I was messing around with 10mm Auto, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, and 9x19mm Parabellum. Some changes and revisions have been made over the past few months and I believe I have the data accurate enough in game that it very very closely represents real performances (A3 limitations aside).

 

So far this is what I have accomplished as far as complete data sets goes....

9x19mm Parabellum

.40 S&W

H&K 10mm Auto

.45 ACP

5.45x39mm Russian

5.56x45mm NATO (this is an almost complete overhaul based on new actual real life test data, very rare stuff)

6.8x43mm SPC II

7.62x35mm AAC Blackout

7.62x39mm Russian

7.62x51mm NATO (new ballistics calculations and overhauled data based on new real life test data)

7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian

7.62x67mm (.300 Win Mag) - completely overhauled damage profile system for medium caliber sniper platform cartridges for increased lethality.

8.58x70mm (.338 Lapua Mag)

10.4x77mm (.408 CheyTac)

10.6x83mm (.416 Barrett)

 

This does not mean all of these calibers will be available in Toadies packs, its just what I have completed for either him or others, this should easily cover 95% of what most people use in ArmA III. I do have plans for both NATO spec and Russian .50 caliber cartridges, however I am still working out how to adjust certain parameters to match their real life performance especially at long to extreme ranges which is where things get really really tricky when using default BI code. .416 Barrett and .408 CheyTac will be my test platforms for the long to extreme range calculations prior to my work on .50 Caliber cartridges.

 

In regards to 7.5x55 Swiss, I have that data set ready as well, I have been fine tuning a lot of my work recently and the 7.5x55 Swiss rounds will have all the latest incorporated changes available.

[irving_mainway 105]

I would like to thank everyone for their patience especially Toadie2k for me getting that ballistics work done, I have been working very closely with SMA on their 2.0-2.1 releases which took up the vast majority of my time and has helped me get my ballistics refined even further. After the hundreds of hours of work that I with other SMA members poured into the 2.0-2.1 releases I really just wanted to sit back and enjoy the work, I do not think that is too much to ask, and I can say the Tavor is my personal favorite. I have not stopped work, in fact the other day I was messing around with 10mm Auto, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, and 9x19mm Parabellum. Some changes and revisions have been made over the past few months and I believe I have the data accurate enough in game that it very very closely represents real performances (A3 limitations aside).

 

So far this is what I have accomplished as far as complete data sets goes....

9x19mm Parabellum

.40 S&W

H&K 10mm Auto

.45 ACP

5.45x39mm Russian

5.56x45mm NATO (this is an almost complete overhaul based on new actual real life test data, very rare stuff)

6.8x43mm SPC II

7.62x35mm AAC Blackout

7.62x39mm Russian

7.62x51mm NATO (new ballistics calculations and overhauled data based on new real life test data)

7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian

7.62x67mm (.300 Win Mag) - completely overhauled damage profile system for medium caliber sniper platform cartridges for increased lethality.

8.58x70mm (.338 Lapua Mag)

10.4x77mm (.408 CheyTac)

10.6x83mm (.416 Barrett)

 

This does not mean all of these calibers will be available in Toadies packs, its just what I have completed for either him or others, this should easily cover 95% of what most people use in ArmA III. I do have plans for both NATO spec and Russian .50 caliber cartridges, however I am still working out how to adjust certain parameters to match their real life performance especially at long to extreme ranges which is where things get really really tricky when using default BI code. .416 Barrett and .408 CheyTac will be my test platforms for the long to extreme range calculations prior to my work on .50 Caliber cartridges.

 

In regards to 7.5x55 Swiss, I have that data set ready as well, I have been fine tuning a lot of my work recently and the 7.5x55 Swiss rounds will have all the latest incorporated changes available.

 

Sounds really good, I look forward to seeing these new updates both in SMA and Toadie's HLC packs. I'm really interested to learn your choice of cartridges / rounds for each caliber. Have you given any thought to doing / re-doing (often times the default BIS vanilla ammo can work as a stand-in) some obsolescent type rounds like the M80 7.62x51 NATO which dates back to the Vietnam, or the old / outgoing M855 rounds or even M193 (again vietnam era)? My reason for asking is that, despite how great these new and exciting rounds are (like Mk 318/319 or M855A1/M80A1) to the best of my knowledge, the US Armed Forces (and even then possibly only the front-line type units) for the most part are the only users, although I think that the British have / are going to have something very similar to M855A1 soon if they don't already. The other reason I'm interested in some of these older calibers is that a lot of the missions / operations that my ARMA group (Blackwater Realism Unit) plays involves 3rd world insurgent type opposition who would almost always be using older obsolete / obsolescent type equipment. 

 

The more I play ARMA, the more interest I have in reading about ballistics, or how and why certain bullets behave the way they do and the history behind why some guns & ammo gets adopted vs other competing designs. Glad to hear that we'll get to see the 7.5 Swiss service round soon. I mentioned earlier in the thread that when I saw that the SIG 510 was going to be the next gun Toadie was going to create, I had questions. One of the things though I think we might get to see and appreciate with the 7.5 Swiss is that the standard GP 11 loading was made to near Match-grade standards. All-in all a well kept secret.

[Spartan0536 189]

Sounds really good, I look forward to seeing these new updates both in SMA and Toadie's HLC packs. I'm really interested to learn your choice of cartridges / rounds for each caliber. Have you given any thought to doing / re-doing (often times the default BIS vanilla ammo can work as a stand-in) some obsolescent type rounds like the M80 7.62x51 NATO which dates back to the Vietnam, or the old / outgoing M855 rounds or even M193 (again vietnam era)? My reason for asking is that, despite how great these new and exciting rounds are (like Mk 318/319 or M855A1/M80A1) to the best of my knowledge, the US Armed Forces (and even then possibly only the front-line type units) for the most part are the only users, although I think that the British have / are going to have something very similar to M855A1 soon if they don't already. The other reason I'm interested in some of these older calibers is that a lot of the missions / operations that my ARMA group (Blackwater Realism Unit) plays involves 3rd world insurgent type opposition who would almost always be using older obsolete / obsolescent type equipment. 

 

The more I play ARMA, the more interest I have in reading about ballistics, or how and why certain bullets behave the way they do and the history behind why some guns & ammo gets adopted vs other competing designs. Glad to hear that we'll get to see the 7.5 Swiss service round soon. I mentioned earlier in the thread that when I saw that the SIG 510 was going to be the next gun Toadie was going to create, I had questions. One of the things though I think we might get to see and appreciate with the 7.5 Swiss is that the standard GP 11 loading was made to near Match-grade standards. All-in all a well kept secret.

 

The GP11 rounds have a very interesting history to them and sadly the Mil-spec rounds have very little public information about them that is factual from actual ballistic testing. However I have done my best in researching the GP11 rounds and I feel rather confident in the data I have acquired, however the Armor Piercing rounds only seem to have used a mild steel core, not a hardened, and this round was designed before modern Kevlar and ceramic plating, so I do not think their intent was to defeat body armor but possibly only light-moderate barriers.

 

As for some of the older rounds (ex. M80 Ball, M193, M74, M47, ect...) I have considered doing those in "throwback" or also in "insurgent" packs showing they get the second hand crap that they usually get in RL. This also brings me to a question that I have been having about .45 ACP...

 

I have the actual US Army's ballistics test data from the 1940's regarding the M1911 .45 ACP Ball ammunition (this is its DODIC classification), however its an early 1900's bullet design and is prone to a high ricochet, low penetration, low velocity comparative performance against modern .45 ACP FMJ/TMJ rounds used. That being said, for "modern" firearms would you prefer to stick with the US Army's M1911 Ball ammunition, or would you like new production Law Enforcement grade ammunition instead?

[irving_mainway 105]

The GP11 rounds have a very interesting history to them and sadly the Mil-spec rounds have very little public information about them that is factual from actual ballistic testing. However I have done my best in researching the GP11 rounds and I feel rather confident in the data I have acquired, however the Armor Piercing rounds only seem to have used a mild steel core, not a hardened, and this round was designed before modern Kevlar and ceramic plating, so I do not think their intent was to defeat body armor but possibly only light-moderate barriers.

 

As for some of the older rounds (ex. M80 Ball, M193, M74, M47, ect...) I have considered doing those in "throwback" or also in "insurgent" packs showing they get the second hand crap that they usually get in RL. This also brings me to a question that I have been having about .45 ACP...

 

I have the actual US Army's ballistics test data from the 1940's regarding the M1911 .45 ACP Ball ammunition (this is its DODIC classification), however its an early 1900's bullet design and is prone to a high ricochet, low penetration, low velocity comparative performance against modern .45 ACP FMJ/TMJ rounds used. That being said, for "modern" firearms would you prefer to stick with the US Army's M1911 Ball ammunition, or would you like new production Law Enforcement grade ammunition instead?

 

Sorry to be greedy but honestly I would say BOTH as far as old & new ammo. My thinking is like this, obviously under ideal circumstances, you're going to be running the new, cutting-edge stuff wherever possible and you're going to take whatever advantage it gives you. However, when given no other choice you would use the old stuff and it would probably work as well as it ever had. I think there also used to be an old US Army MATCH loading for the 1911 as well but I'm not sure if it was ever used operationally, may have just been for competitions. Anyways as best as I can say, for the new stuff try to find ONE ROUND for any given caliber that best "sums up"  new technology, be it a polymer tip or better propellant, because other wise you'll find yourself working on 16 different variations to account for different bullet weights, tipped, hollow-point, soft-point ect.

 

The trouble I've found with these old rounds (at least the ones I've always wondered about seeing in ARMA) is that it may be very hard if not impossible to include some of their "peculiarities" due to the limits of A3. Take the M193 for instance, not only do you get the fragmentation effects but you also get improved body armor penetration at short ranges thanks to its high velocity. Both of these thing are hard-if-not-impossible to simulate in Arma 3. Although you can probably chalk a lot of this up to tall tales (I don't doubt that any of it is true, the M193 breaks apart at short ranges and causes more damage when it does, however some of the stories you hear would make you think that it was a "blood and guts hanging from the trees" beast of a round that took no prisoners and left no survivors.) , I've also read stories about the relatively easily fragmenting German 7.62 "Weichkern" ammo (compared to other standard NATO 7.62, from what I understand this has made the German stuff quite popular on the surplus market) and the Yugo 7.62x39mm M67 round being better both ballistically and fragmentation / yaw-wise vs the Russian steel-cored M43 most often used in the AK.

 

This leads to another dilemma when thinking about adding new rounds, at least as far as I can see, sometimes its hard to get people to care. What I mean by that is, at least in my experience, your average ARMA player is just going to use the BEST round for his gun, period. If that's a Hollow-Point bullet that isn't even issued by the military or it might be a glowing pink bullet from Mars, he's not going to care because it puts bodies on the ground. Same thing is sad-but-true in my experience with subsonic ammo, lots of people don't use it because just throwing a can on the front of the gun will silence / suppress whatever comes out the end anyway, and you don't have to worry about the low-power + short range of the subsonic stuff, realism be damned.

 

Again I admit I'm partial to the older rounds and believe that since they are more widely available around the world, there's more of a place for them in ARMA vs a new high-tech polymer tipped low-drag wonder that's only used by the Secret Service and the FBI. That said I still enjoy the new bullets too and I like your take on the Barnes TTSX. I'd love to see the new TMK (Tipped Match-King) 77 grain 5.56 (G1 BC of .420) but it remains to be seen if that ever goes into military service.

 

I've had similar conversations with quickdagger and assisted him with a bit of research on scope reticles and different rounds, really is an interesting topic of conversation.

[toadie2k 799]

This leads to another dilemma when thinking about adding new rounds, at least as far as I can see, sometimes its hard to get people to care. What I mean by that is, at least in my experience, your average ARMA player is just going to use the BEST round for his gun, period. If that's a Hollow-Point bullet that isn't even issued by the military or it might be a glowing pink bullet from Mars, he's not going to care because it puts bodies on the ground. Same thing is sad-but-true in my experience with subsonic ammo, lots of people don't use it because just throwing a can on the front of the gun will silence / suppress whatever comes out the end anyway, and you don't have to worry about the low-power + short range of the subsonic stuff, realism be damned.

Honestly, the only way to get people to use "inferior" ammo is to legislate through mechanics or mission design with it's use in mind, otherwise, yeah people are just going to pick the most effective round, which almost always will be the closest thing to any caliber's all-rounder cartridge.

[Spartan0536 189]

Sorry to be greedy but honestly I would say BOTH as far as old & new ammo. My thinking is like this, obviously under ideal circumstances, you're going to be running the new, cutting-edge stuff wherever possible and you're going to take whatever advantage it gives you. However, when given no other choice you would use the old stuff and it would probably work as well as it ever had. I think there also used to be an old US Army MATCH loading for the 1911 as well but I'm not sure if it was ever used operationally, may have just been for competitions. Anyways as best as I can say, for the new stuff try to find ONE ROUND for any given caliber that best "sums up"  new technology, be it a polymer tip or better propellant, because other wise you'll find yourself working on 16 different variations to account for different bullet weights, tipped, hollow-point, soft-point ect.

 

The trouble I've found with these old rounds (at least the ones I've always wondered about seeing in ARMA) is that it may be very hard if not impossible to include some of their "peculiarities" due to the limits of A3. Take the M193 for instance, not only do you get the fragmentation effects but you also get improved body armor penetration at short ranges thanks to its high velocity. Both of these thing are hard-if-not-impossible to simulate in Arma 3. Although you can probably chalk a lot of this up to tall tales (I don't doubt that any of it is true, the M193 breaks apart at short ranges and causes more damage when it does, however some of the stories you hear would make you think that it was a "blood and guts hanging from the trees" beast of a round that took no prisoners and left no survivors.) , I've also read stories about the relatively easily fragmenting German 7.62 "Weichkern" ammo (compared to other standard NATO 7.62, from what I understand this has made the German stuff quite popular on the surplus market) and the Yugo 7.62x39mm M67 round being better both ballistically and fragmentation / yaw-wise vs the Russian steel-cored M43 most often used in the AK.

 

This leads to another dilemma when thinking about adding new rounds, at least as far as I can see, sometimes its hard to get people to care. What I mean by that is, at least in my experience, your average ARMA player is just going to use the BEST round for his gun, period. If that's a Hollow-Point bullet that isn't even issued by the military or it might be a glowing pink bullet from Mars, he's not going to care because it puts bodies on the ground. Same thing is sad-but-true in my experience with subsonic ammo, lots of people don't use it because just throwing a can on the front of the gun will silence / suppress whatever comes out the end anyway, and you don't have to worry about the low-power + short range of the subsonic stuff, realism be damned.

 

Again I admit I'm partial to the older rounds and believe that since they are more widely available around the world, there's more of a place for them in ARMA vs a new high-tech polymer tipped low-drag wonder that's only used by the Secret Service and the FBI. That said I still enjoy the new bullets too and I like your take on the Barnes TTSX. I'd love to see the new TMK (Tipped Match-King) 77 grain 5.56 (G1 BC of .420) but it remains to be seen if that ever goes into military service.

 

I've had similar conversations with quickdagger and assisted him with a bit of research on scope reticles and different rounds, really is an interesting topic of conversation.

 

 

Honestly, the only way to get people to use "inferior" ammo is to legislate through mechanics or mission design with it's use in mind, otherwise, yeah people are just going to pick the most effective round, which almost always will be the closest thing to any caliber's all-rounder cartridge.

 

As to the Sierra TMK, I have followed that rounds development very closely, in fact I shared an idea I had for a new Mil-Spec round that merged the M855A1 with the 69 Grain TMK, however as it turns out, the M855A1 is very very similar to the design I proposed, they just exposed the steel tip a bit more than I would have. Interestingly enough thanks to some very very new civilian ballistics testing of the M855A1 (do not ask how they got them, I have no clue) and yes these were definitely M855A1, not that green tip BS which sucks so much *** it probably uses compressed fart gas to make it move.

 

I just watched a brand new video of a guy shooting a Level 3+ AR500 steel armor plate with an M855A1 EPR from a 22 inch barrel, at 15 feet it blew right through that plate, and that plate stopped the 7.62x51mm NATO Black Tip AP bullet! The M855A1 EPR has a serious punch to it!

 

Links: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jET4I6oySsw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8IvDPuVuho

[irving_mainway 105]

As to the Sierra TMK, I have followed that rounds development very closely, in fact I shared an idea I had for a new Mil-Spec round that merged the M855A1 with the 69 Grain TMK, however as it turns out, the M855A1 is very very similar to the design I proposed, they just exposed the steel tip a bit more than I would have. Interestingly enough thanks to some very very new civilian ballistics testing of the M855A1 (do not ask how they got them, I have no clue) and yes these were definitely M855A1, not that green tip BS which sucks so much *** it probably uses compressed fart gas to make it move.

 

I just watched a brand new video of a guy shooting a Level 3+ AR500 steel armor plate with an M855A1 EPR from a 22 inch barrel, at 15 feet it blew right through that plate, and that plate stopped the 7.62x51mm NATO Black Tip AP bullet! The M855A1 EPR has a serious punch to it!

 

Links: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jET4I6oySsw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8IvDPuVuho

 

Yes, from what I can tell thanks to some of the early issues with it (apparently faulty primers, excessive chamber pressure / bolt thrust and the whole issue with the feed ramp that lead to them adopting new magazines), the M855A1 has pretty much been underestimated by all except those who used it (a little bit sneaky what the Army did, used the political support for a new "green lead-free round" to justify paying for a whole new enhanced bullet). It is true that the accuracy standards are more lax than for Mk 318 (and I believe the A1 either costs more per round or had a more expensive design program vs the Mk 318) but those videos speak for themselves. Honestly though, the first thing that went through my head when I saw those posted on the firearms blog is, "If that's what the 855A1 can do, what does the M80A1 in 7.62 NATO look like?"

 

As much as people don't like to hear it, I feel that the M855A1 means that 5.56 is going to be here for quite a bit longer as the main caliber in US and NATO forces. Especially with some of the stuff going on with their funding, the military seems more than content to continue spending on small, incremental update programs like the M4A1+ rather than adopt a whole new weapon + ammo / caliber. It seems to me, rightly or wrongly, they are playing the long game and slowly putting most of their emphasis on the LSAT program (especially the GPMG and SAW replacements) over the long-term and then hoping once the technology is mature enough it can be scaled-down into a rifle/carbine at some time after that. 

 

One last thing on the 855 though, as god-awful as it has performed over the past 15 or so years, look at what it was designed to do, penetrate soviet helmets and armor BETTER than M193 (also I think the new tracer round that went along with it, M856, had some advantages over the older M196 tracer). I think had NATO gotten into any kind of "conventional" hot war with the Soviet Union / Warsaw Pact in the late 80s, the M855, fired by M16A2s, probably would have gotten along just fine. The trouble is, the series of compromises that were made in adopting the M855 and then the M4 Carbine lead to the US Military fighting two wars with sub-standard small arms capability. On the bright side though, based off of what we can see from the M855A1, it looks like they've at least taken a step in the right direction.

[colosseum 34]

Sorry to constantly ask but when will we get the SIG mod? :)

[aronh17 26]

Sorry to constantly ask but when will we get the SIG mod? :)

Soonâ„¢

[nkenny 1057]

I love the weapons pack. Would it be possible to get a siderail on the AUG2 series of rifles-- to mount flashlights or IR lasers. I know the A3 has that capability, but sometimes your scenario calls for a slightly older styled Aug :)