The AAF Tank is freaking amazing!

[UltimateBawb 1]

Ah damn so much confusion. Yeah I meant to say T-100, not Kuma, I thought for some reason that Kuma was the designation for the T-100 in game.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Ah damn so much confusion. Yeah I meant to say T-100, not Kuma, I thought for some reason that Kuma was the designation for the T-100 in game.

T-100 Vursuk.

[shiftysean 21]

The kuma is the leopard 2a4 (since this is the primary export version) with an upgrade package basicly, rheinmetalls MBT revolution package which (according to their own words) puts it on par and perhaps even better than the leopard 2a6. My country being a former owner of the a4 and a6 versions, I love this tank with a passion, just wish it wasn't on AAF xD Anyway, the a4 version is way older than the Merkava mk IV as it's from '85. That being said, the revolution package is from 2010, with all the state of the art goodies (extra armor plating, better targeting systems, protection systems etc.) I for one am still hoping that there will be uparmored versions of the Merkava (as seen on beta pictures with a commander gun and ERA plating). If you like to know more about the Kuma: http://www.military-today.com/tanks/revolution.htm

[issen 13]

- The CSAT Soldiers have this special Armoured Clothing stuff that gives them higher Amount of Bulletproof-Stuff (sounds wierd, but thats' how it works in the config) than any other Side. NATO can counter with Carrier Plate Rigs, but those only protect the Upper Body, not the Legs and Arms.

Can you point me to the config entries that support that claim?

I'd be really interested in seeing the extent of those differences for myself! :)

[FitMother 10]

I would say they did a great job with all the tanks.

[shiftysean 21]

I am actually curious about config entries like that aswell, I feel like the t100 has all the other tanks beat in armor (just a quick test of using a kuma). both the Slammer, and Kuma go down after 1 hit on the front already 3/3 times I checked it. the t100 took anything from 2 to 5 shots. Is the armor of the t100 better, or is this a case of deflecting shots with the sloped turret?

I'm by no means an expert to how far these configs and codes go to mirror deflection, armor penetration etc, so anyone that can explain, or was it just random chance?:P It'd be fun to hear the weaknesses of each tank (obviously irl the Merkava has very weak armor at the hatch in the back, is this modelled ingame aswell?)

Also, used the Moira (is it called that? the Warrior ifv) and spend ALL the AP rounds on the t100 and it still stood there with no real signs of damage.

Edited January 12, 2014 by ShiftySean

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I am actually curious about config entries like that aswell, I feel like the t100 has all the other tanks beat in armor (just a quick test of using a kuma). both the Slammer, and Kuma go down after 1 hit on the front already 3/3 times I checked it. the t100 took anything from 2 to 5 shots. Is the armor of the t100 better, or is this a case of deflecting shots with the sloped turret?

I'm by no means an expert to how far these configs and codes go to mirror deflection, armor penetration etc, so anyone that can explain, or was it just random chance?:P It'd be fun to hear the weaknesses of each tank (obviously irl the Merkava has very weak armor at the hatch in the back, is this modelled ingame aswell?)

Also, used the Moira (is it called that? the Warrior ifv) and spend ALL the AP rounds on the t100 and it still stood there with no real signs of damage.

Well, to be honest, the Kuma should be better, if not second best. If you look up the Leopard it's based off of, its pretty much like a Tank, but with EXTRA armor. Some kind of upgrade armor all around the tank. The turret, the sides, and back, from, just a bit. Over all though, it's far more armored than the original Leopard. In terms of it's opponents, not sure. But the Kuma shouldn't go down in one shot, IMHO.

[kuIoodporny 45]

There are some tweaks awaiting in regards of Kuma's firepower and armour. Unfortunately on hold due to data lock, but probably soon after patch it should arrive on development branch.

[progamer 14]

There are some tweaks awaiting in regards of Kuma's firepower and armour. Unfortunately on hold due to data lock, but probably soon after patch it should arrive on development branch.

Like what? Are the tweaks to make it more realistic or to balance it?

Edited January 14, 2014 by ProGamer

[kuIoodporny 45]

Pink camo and fluffy antenna coating.

Other than that, there was mispositioned armour plate inside tank which possibly made it too vulnerable to front attacks compared to other tanks.

[progamer 14]

Pink camo and fluffy antenna coating.

Other than that, there was mispositioned armour plate inside tank which possibly made it too vulnerable to front attacks compared to other tanks.

No sparkle effect when the main gun shoots? :D

Thank you for clarifying!

What did you mean by firepower though? Aren't the calibers correct and the other tanks mistakenly use 6.5mm?

[kuIoodporny 45]

The longer barrel of Kuma will allow it to have up to 10% better armour piercing power compared to Slammer's main gun.

[shiftysean 21]

Oo So the AAF tank will defenitly shit all over the Merkava than xD Or is their anything planned for the merkava aswell (still hoping for that uparmored version:o)

Irl I guess the Leopard mbt revolution is a bit more capable for tank vs tank combat than the merkava, with the new armorplates, upgraded FCS etc.

Also, Winning!

[Tonci87 163]

Pink camo and fluffy antenna coating.

Other than that, there was mispositioned armour plate inside tank which possibly made it too vulnerable to front attacks compared to other tanks.

I loled :D

[katipo66 94]

Sorry, slightly off topic but I have to say the MSE-3 Marid is a really bad design in terms of being a commander, the periscope has it's vision blocked completly to the right and the commander unable to see anything in front when turned out due to the drivers hatch completely blocking his view, the hatches look like they only open halfway and commander and driver look like they are struggling to look up and sit comfortably, is this based of some prototype or anything, Its hard to imagine it as an apc that would see any service.

Ok, of my chest :)

[progamer 14]

Oo So the AAF tank will defenitly shit all over the Merkava than xD Or is their anything planned for the merkava aswell (still hoping for that uparmored version:o)

Irl I guess the Leopard mbt revolution is a bit more capable for tank vs tank combat than the merkava, with the new armorplates, upgraded FCS etc.

Also, http://www.picdescrip.com/media/pics/pdimg_382.jpg Winning!

The Merkava Mk4 is more of an urban combat vehicle from my understanding.

[shifty_ginosaji 10]

Its good that the AAF tank will pwn blufor, I hate merkava's....

[Roo5ter 1]

Not a fan of the slammer myself. The transport would be good in certain game modes though.

[PantherAl 11]

The Merkava Mk4 is more of an urban combat vehicle from my understanding.

Not really, no. The Merk 4 was given some features that allow it to survive longer in MOUT, deletion of the loaders hatch being one, but its not a Urban Specific track. Mainly a case of the lack of elevation its weapon systems has. What Merkava line is, is a Tank that can head into a city and have a decent chance of coming out the other side, has a huge focus on crew protection, and the ability to carry on board enough Ammo to handle swarms of enemy armour on a reasonably open battlefield. For an Urban Combat Track, what I would argue for would be the Namer, with a high elevation RWS with some sort of GMG, or even better, small caliber autocannon: 25 to 35mm, perhaps, with a second RWS with a 30 cal MG. And *plenty* of smoke launchers.

[JamesSaga 1]

I find it a real shame that with the new AAF chopper, the optics pod cant lase targets or guide the missiles. :(

[shiftysean 21]

The longer barrel of Kuma will allow it to have up to 10% better armour piercing power compared to Slammer's main gun.

So I did a little searching for this statement. I can't find anywhere if the mbt revolution upgrade changes the main barrel of the leopard, so I'm guessing it's still using the L44 rheinmetall (which is a good cannon, don't get me wrong).

It's just that the Merkava's MG253 cannon (which is similair to the L44) is made with same alterations. The guns are evenly long (http://archive.is/TCS8R + http://www.imi-israel.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=68579) so the longer barrel statement isn't quite true. Also the MG253 is close to the L55's penetration and accuracy because of the slight alterations.

If I'm wrong please do tell, but atm it seems as though the Merkava's gun would outclass the leopard evolutions gun in penetration, range and accuracy.

[Damian90 697]

So I did a little searching for this statement. I can't find anywhere if the mbt revolution upgrade changes the main barrel of the leopard, so I'm guessing it's still using the L44 rheinmetall (which is a good cannon, don't get me wrong).

It's just that the Merkava's MG253 cannon (which is similair to the L44) is made with same alterations. The guns are evenly long (http://archive.is/TCS8R + http://www.imi-israel.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=68579) so the longer barrel statement isn't quite true. Also the MG253 is close to the L55's penetration and accuracy because of the slight alterations.

If I'm wrong please do tell, but atm it seems as though the Merkava's gun would outclass the leopard evolutions gun in penetration, range and accuracy.

Yes you are wrong.

Replacement of the gun barrel (or rather whole gun as some alterations to recoil mechanism are nececary) can be done in Leopard 2 independently to upgrade package like Rhinemetall Revolution, which is modeled in ArmA3. So MBT-52 "Kuma" (Leopard 2 Revolution) can have L44 or L55, Devs choosen to use L55.

As for MG253 it is not L44 gun, yes it is based on Rhinemetall Rh120/L44 but have slightly longer barrel and a more compact breach and recoil assembly, the barrel seems to be L48 if I am not mistaken.

However today the lenght of the barrel itself does not have decisive impact on APFSDS ammunition penetration capabilities.

More important is ammunition design itself, for example the currently used newest US APFSDS the M829A3 is relatively slow APFSDS, with velocity of only 1555 m/s, however it is currently the longest and heaviest APFSDS round in service, and also have a very specific design, sop not only it can defeat heavy composite armor, but also heavy ERA does not affect it much. And all of this when round is fired only from the M256 gun wich is L44, so relatively short by today standards.

Slightly shorter but lighter and faster German DM53, achieves comparable penetration levels (although lower) but only when fired from L55.

British Challenger 2 also uses L55 gun, however due to poor APFSDS ammunition, the L27, which have relatively short penetrator, it anti armor capabilities are limited, especially in confrontation with modern tanks.

So it is not that simple to say "I have a longer gun so I am better". ;)

[shiftysean 21]

Yes you are wrong.

Replacement of the gun barrel (or rather whole gun as some alterations to recoil mechanism are nececary) can be done in Leopard 2 independently to upgrade package like Rhinemetall Revolution, which is modeled in ArmA3. So MBT-52 "Kuma" (Leopard 2 Revolution) can have L44 or L55, Devs choosen to use L55.

As for MG253 it is not L44 gun, yes it is based on Rhinemetall Rh120/L44 but have slightly longer barrel and a more compact breach and recoil assembly, the barrel seems to be L48 if I am not mistaken.

However today the lenght of the barrel itself does not have decisive impact on APFSDS ammunition penetration capabilities.

More important is ammunition design itself, for example the currently used newest US APFSDS the M829A3 is relatively slow APFSDS, with velocity of only 1555 m/s, however it is currently the longest and heaviest APFSDS round in service, and also have a very specific design, sop not only it can defeat heavy composite armor, but also heavy ERA does not affect it much. And all of this when round is fired only from the M256 gun wich is L44, so relatively short by today standards.

Slightly shorter but lighter and faster German DM53, achieves comparable penetration levels (although lower) but only when fired from L55.

British Challenger 2 also uses L55 gun, however due to poor APFSDS ammunition, the L27, which have relatively short penetrator, it anti armor capabilities are limited, especially in confrontation with modern tanks.

So it is not that simple to say "I have a longer gun so I am better". ;)

In that case good sir, consider me enlightened and my point as invalid :P Obviously it's not as simple as "longer gun is better". But different types of APFSDS are I believe not being simulated in the game, hence I thought it would come down to mainly the gun itself. Did not know about the L55, and it is well known that that is a step up from the mg253 or the L44, so that fact alone renders my argument invalid :P

The CR2's gun is rifled though as I understand it, because the brits love the HESH rounds (which is a pretty decent anti-tank round from what I heard).

[b00tsy 28]

The tanks uses a mopet engine, can't climb even a tiny hill of 15%.

[kuIoodporny 45]

The tanks uses a mopet engine, can't climb even a tiny hill of 15%.

At first sounded interesting, but I cannot repro the issue.