Soldier protection (dev branch)

[Maxzy 12]

The width of a brick wall - half old brick! Bullet may or may not lose the good aerodynamics and shape...

Obviously your knowledge about bullets is based on some hollywood movies. In reality an average bullet loses its form and significantly changes trajectory even if shot through an apple or banana. I shot a hollow rubber ball from SKS once - bullet's trajectory has gone at least 10 degrees left from the starting one and it was obvious that it lost at least 1/3 of its speed (it was a tracer). Watch some youtube, ffs.

Edited February 5, 2014 by MAXZY

[Kirill 1]

Obviously your knowledge about bullets is based on some hollywood movies. In reality an average bullet loses its form and significantly changes trajectory even if shot through an apple or banana. I shot a hollow rubber ball from SKS once - bullet's trajectory has gone at least 10 degrees left from the starting one and it was obvious that it lost at least 1/3 of its speed (it was a tracer). Watch some youtube, ffs.

Well, you - Special Forces soldier) Let me shoot you in the leg through the block of foam or thin brick wall ...) Wounded in unarmored body parts (deformed bullet) - will not be easier. Perhaps they will be harder!

[maturin 12]

Agreed, but that was like a foot and a half of stone and concrete, not a thin brick wall.

[Kirill 1]

Agreed, but that was like a foot and a half of stone and concrete, not a thin brick wall.

Are you all see first photo only?) There is another picture! Thickness of walls - half old brick.

[maturin 12]

Are you all see first photo only?) There is another picture! Thickness of walls - half old brick.

I see no penetration of walls thinner than 8-12 inches of stone, or over a foot of concrete. You have rotated the camera so as to prevent us from seeing what is being penetrated in one case.

That said, I also see a bullet apparently overpenetrating a soldier, then going through an entire concrete pillar, which is very suspicious. Off to test myself.

[Kirill 1]

I see no penetration of walls thinner than 8-12 inches of stone, or over a foot of concrete. You have rotated the camera so as to prevent us from seeing what is being penetrated in one case.

That said, I also see a bullet apparently overpenetrating a soldier, then going through an entire concrete pillar, which is very suspicious. Off to test myself.

I Added another screens. Look http://feedback.arma3.com/file_download.php?file_id=7323&type=bug

http://feedback.arma3.com/file_download.php?file_id=7324&type=bug

It's cruel! Naked soldiers) stood 5 hits 6.5mm (through a brick wall). In fact, he stood 7 hits (not in the hands or feet below the hips)!

Edited February 6, 2014 by Kirill

[roshnak 41]

I still think this system needs work.

As it is now, the level of protection may be technically realistic -- excluding modeling plates, which is kind of a big deal -- but it's not producing realistic results. The game needs more severe hit reactions. There should probably be a noticeable flinch from first person when struck in the armor, along with a decrease in aiming stability -- personally, I think 1-2 seconds is too short, and it should be somewhere around 3-5. Perhaps being struck in the helmet should cause a second or two of blurred vision.

The game also probably needs, at the very least, some simple wounded animations. I honestly don't think a rudimentary bleeding system would be terrible, either. It worked out fine for America's Army.

The simple fact is that there just aren't enough consequences to being shot non-fatally in this game, and the addition of body armor makes non-fatal hits even more common.

[maturin 12]

I Added another screens. Look http://feedback.arma3.com/file_download.php?file_id=7323&type=bug

http://feedback.arma3.com/file_download.php?file_id=7324&type=bug

It's cruel! Naked soldiers) stood 5 hits 6.5mm (through a brick wall). In fact, he stood 7 hits (not in the hands or feet below the hips)!

Can you repeat these tests with Dsylexci's bullet tracing script? It's not really a huge deal if the bullets are all going slower than paintballs. But if you can prove that the bullets are going through people and retaining a fair amount of speed, then that is indeed screwy.

[DancZer 65]

I am not really a model addon maker, but can we achieve realistic penetration if we would have armor plates and helmet with correct materials(like the colored items in this picture) attached to the underweared soldier at the correct position (

) with attachTo command? :confused:

[griffz 1]

Thanks fireball i was having a hard time to know how to explain it

---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------

But i acknowledge i didn't know what caused it i only knew it happens

---------- Post added at 00:04 ---------- Previous post was at 23:21 ----------

Been reading and being shot depending on the caliber using a plate carrier, will probably fractures you're rib, and cause hardness to breath and probably knock you on ground for a moment

physic failed, for sure . :/

[Heneral 10]

Don't forget to use Target Range by Kronzky. Nice solution for bullet tracking.

[lugiahua 26]

Quite interesting that NATO SF in the game doesn't wear body armor at all, compared to IRL they often have the most advanced armor.

I think it would be reasonable for NATO SF to wear exoskeleton like CSAT regular, I don't see why NATO can't afford such armor for selected elite units.

[maturin 12]

Obviously the SF get the best gear. But they also have the most independence, and might choose mobility over protection.

[lugiahua 26]

Obviously the SF get the best gear. But they also have the most independence, and might choose mobility over protection.

True, but wouldn't some situation require protection?

Maybe they should make two versions of SF, one being light recon with minimum protection(the current one), another one with NATO version exoskeleton suits.

I have a feeling that there might be heavy armored version of NATO soldier in the game with "Win" chapter.

Consider in the campaign menu picture, "Survive" has Kerry in current NATO outfit, "Adapt" in FIA outfit, I wonder what will the "Win" be?

Edited February 23, 2014 by Lugiahua

[Heneral 10]

Who exactly is equipped with CTRG vest(and uniform)? Looks heavy.

[instagoat 133]

Who exactly is equipped with CTRG vest(and uniform)? Looks heavy.

The british SF soldiers use it. It's a retextured Blufor crye vest, visually.

[fabrizio_t 58]

A week ago a played a bit with handleDamage EH and i have a simple question.

What's the reason at times handleDamage does not trigger when some soldier is hit (at point blank) by a bullet ?

Can it be related to the degree of soldier protection ?

Anyway it feels strange, units take some infinitesimal damage by simply moving around a campfire, but sometimes like they don't "register" bullet hits.

[maturin 12]

Do they get hurt, at least?

[Tonci87 163]

A week ago a played a bit with handleDamage EH and i have a simple question.

What's the reason at times handleDamage does not trigger when some soldier is hit (at point blank) by a bullet ?

Can it be related to the degree of soldier protection ?

Anyway it feels strange, units take some infinitesimal damage by simply moving around a campfire, but sometimes like they don't "register" bullet hits.

I think you came across the "Bullets going through soldiers without doing damage" bug. I had instances where I could empty whole mags into a soldier without him beeing hurt.

Is this the behaviour you see?

It seems as if BIS can´t repro this....

[maturin 12]

Because you haven't reproed it yet. No one cares about something that's apparently related to the pointless surrender animation.

[Bouben 3]

Because you haven't reproed it yet. No one cares about something that's apparently related to the pointless surrender animation.

I would not be so sure about this. I also noticed some weird hit detection behaviour. Have not tested it properly tho.

[Tonci87 163]

Because you haven't reproed it yet. No one cares about something that's apparently related to the pointless surrender animation.

Hint: It isn´t tied to the animation. Stop pulling assumptions out of your arse.

And yes I reported that already, but BIS either doesn´t care or simply can´t reproduce it.

In fact I warned them about suspicious hitdetection behaviour back in the Alpha.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?152866-General-Discussion-(dev-branch)&p=2604856&viewfull=1#post2604856

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?152866-General-Discussion-(dev-branch)&p=2605868&viewfull=1#post2605868

[maturin 12]

As I said. You haven't repro'd it yet. Where's the video?

And it is indeed tied to the animation. Otherwise you would have been able to repro it for the normal standing position.

OBVIOUSLY there isn't one single hit detection issue. There are a variety of very illusive, condition-dependent bugs. That's why no one has pinned them all down and repro-d and fixed them yet...

[Tonci87 163]

As I said. You haven't repro'd it yet. Where's the video?

And it is indeed tied to the animation. Otherwise you would have been able to repro it for the normal standing position.

OBVIOUSLY there isn't one single hit detection issue. There are a variety of very illusive, condition-dependent bugs. That's why no one has pinned them all down and repro-d and fixed them yet...

If you would have taken the time to read the posts I linked there instead of pulling assumptions out of your arse again and beeing ignorant, then you would have seen that it is not tied to the animation. I, and other people, had this happen in various situations, with various units, and in normal firefights too. We can´t repro it reliably because it happens at random.

[fabrizio_t 58]

I would not be so sure about this. I also noticed some weird hit detection behaviour. Have not tested it properly tho.

Well i noticed the problem when firing point blank on a standing rifleman, with no fancy animation involved.

What i saw happening is handleDamage not firing on many evident hits.

Other than that i can only speculate.

EDIT:

did a quick test on 1.11.1115793 dev build.

So far i've not been able to reproduce the issue anymore.

Edited February 26, 2014 by fabrizio_T