AI Configuration - feedback

[Bouben 3]

Bingo. Only thing that has really changed is the ranges at which they spot and engage. In arma 2 their vanilla spotting range was around 100 to 200 metres. You could be running around in circles, shooting at the sky full auto and they wouldn't see you at 250 metres.

Now with more realistic spotting ranges however, its just easier to find the flaws with the ai spotting mechanics - mainly that concealing your self via camoflauge or partial cover does not effect the ai (at least not enough).

But this was the same for arma 2. Things have only gotten better since. Remember in arma 2, as soon as you killed an enemy, the entire squad knew exactly where you were. This has been improved significantly make "sniping" a bit easier.

Agreed. Improvements have been made but I hope it won't stop there.

[maturin 12]

My point is that making sniping gameplay realistic means overhauling the entire AI spotting system.

Which is of course somewhere on the Top 5 Things That Should Have Been Done, along with accuracy/suppression, cover and urban combat drills, etc.

[Bouben 3]

My point is that making sniping gameplay realistic means overhauling the entire AI spotting system.

Which is of course somewhere on the Top 5 Things That Should Have Been Done, along with accuracy/suppression, cover and urban combat drills, etc.

I see. Thanks for explanation.

[bonchie 39]

I am not aware of this behaviour in the previous games. I think it was more or the less the same only the spotting distance was significantly shorter.

I can remember laying in a bush in OFP and having soldiers run right by me and not see me.

I can also remember taking advantage of this and staying in the bush and using it as a "cheat" of sorts to pick all the enemy off while they couldn't see me. That was the downside.

---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 PM ----------

But this was the same for arma 2. Things have only gotten better since. Remember in arma 2, as soon as you killed an enemy, the entire squad knew exactly where you were. This has been improved significantly make "sniping" a bit easier.

I'm not seeing it.

In the Adapt campaign there's a mission where you have to take a patrol out by a group of windmills. I laid 300 meters away, behind a rock, leaning out just enough to get a shot off. The moment I shot, all 5 of them immediately engaged me.

Today in MP, we were assaulting a town. I was behind an Ifrit. I poked my head from behind the tire for a half a second and got head shotted 100 meters off from a soldier that previously hadn't spotted me.

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

[sultanofswing 10]

I can remember laying in a bush in OFP and having soldiers run right by me and not see me.

I can also remember taking advantage of this and staying in the bush and using it as a "cheat" of sorts to pick all the enemy off while they couldn't see me. That was the downside.

---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 PM ----------

I'm not seeing it.

In the Adapt campaign there's a mission where you have to take a patrol out by a group of windmills. I laid 300 meters away, behind a rock, leaning out just enough to get a shot off. The moment I shot, all 5 of them immediately engaged me.

Today in MP, we were assaulting a town. I was behind an Ifrit. I poked my head from behind the tire for a half a second and got head shotted 100 meters off from a soldier that previously hadn't spotted me.

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

That happens to me a lot and is the only reason I usually do not even play any of the single player stuff. I normally just mess around in the Editor. Maybe once the AI gets working properly I can actually enjoy the game.

[maturin 12]

In the Adapt campaign there's a mission where you have to take a patrol out by a group of windmills. I laid 300 meters away, behind a rock, leaning out just enough to get a shot off. The moment I shot, all 5 of them immediately engaged me.

Well, were they looking right at you?

In my game, I keep having enemies not respond at all, even as I hit and kill them with bullets. That's a more serious glitch, but even before that happened, sniping was easier in A3. I think you're suffering from nostalgia. Spotting in A2 was a pure line of sight affair until you got out to 700m or so. Your second shot was almost always the last you took from concealment.

[tortuosit 486]

Just because you shoot a guy, he shouldn't immediately know you are hiding in a bush 150 meters away

Yeah, pretty much a problem for me too. While I first get confused and need some time to find the enemy, they always spot me when they just turn to my direction. They don't need to scan bush after bush...

[kecske 46]

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=13071

Do you think it would be possible to create an AI behavior like this? Right now it's pretty easy once you get into an MRAP, since you can just run everyone over.

[bonchie 39]

Well, were they looking right at you?

In my game, I keep having enemies not respond at all, even as I hit and kill them with bullets. That's a more serious glitch, but even before that happened, sniping was easier in A3. I think you're suffering from nostalgia. Spotting in A2 was a pure line of sight affair until you got out to 700m or so. Your second shot was almost always the last you took from concealment.

Comparing it to Arma 2 is just side tracking the issue. I don't really care what they did or didn't do back then. What they are doing in Arma 3 is what I care about and what this thread is about.

An no, they weren't looking right at me. They were walking left to right across the front of the windmills, and even if they were generally looking in my direction there's noway they should be able to spot me so far off in daylight from a single shot taken from concealment.

At night it's the opposite effect, with the AI having a much harder time spotting you and not responding sometimes at all.

Clearly, I'm not the only one that experiences stuff like this based on the posts on this page.

Edited January 26, 2014 by bonchie

[oukej 2911]

Is there any ETA on when an overhaul with more options for the SP is going to be put out by BIS?? Will it be in a soon to be patch? Or is this all brain-storming for way down the line? Lots of these ideas sound great....steps in the right direction. Even an combination of them. But is BIS releasing any idea of when these might be possible? I've been away from A3 now for several months and really no change in the AI at all?

The idea to change/improve how you can configure the AI was a bit delayed and put aside for a moment due to various other workload (Adapt, AI improvements, ...) but we're still on it!

I'll try to give you some time estimate soon-ish ;), the change itself might not be a complicated one, but we need to take that shot right.

Please, try to stay on the configuration topic in this thread.

For anything about the AI behavior itself, use the AI discussion.

Thanks a lot for all your feedback and ideas!

[KeyCat 131]

a sniper hidden in a highly cluttered area hundreds meters away should not be detected precisely in a few seconds after couple of shots. Sniper should be a fear-spreading unit capable of demoralizing whole squads. Look up some real world videos. It can take dozens of minutes or even hours to detect a shooting sniper.

In Arma, a sniper is detected in seconds even by units which have no scopes. An utter non-sense.

Not to mention that my AI mates regularly spot units that I can't see at all because of LODs, clutter, colours etc.

On the other hand, they sometimes fail to spot clearly visible units.

Simply put: the spotting mechanics need a lot of work yet which I strongly doubt will be done any time soon. Very frustrating.

^ This!

I can remember laying in a bush in OFP and having soldiers run right by me and not see me.

In previous versions of A2:OA you could even hide in tall grass laying prone, heads down and completely still in a ghillie suit (this only worked if you wasn't detected before). The enemy could walk a few meters away and not detect you. For some reason this was changed in later versions :/

Edit: As oukej says this discussion belongs to the AI thread so any mod feel free to move it there ;)

/KC

Edited January 27, 2014 by KeyCat

[Bouben 3]

In previous versions of A2:OA you could even hide in tall grass laying prone, heads down and completely still in a ghillie suit (this only worked if you wasn't detected before). The enemy could walk a few meters away and not detect you. For some reason this was changed in later versions :/

/KC

I don't believe it is truth. I tested being prone and not moving and enemy did not notice me even from few meters away. Tested in beta tho. Nothing recent.

[Tyl3r99 41]

in A2OA ive been a few meters from the enemy and they pretty much walked on top of me.... oh yeah.... that was a modded AI

i was in a ghillie in a small bush not moving an inch and 5 guards walked no closer than 7m away from me at most it was amazing moment

now you cant get 20m without alerting the basterds

[maturin 12]

...which is perfectly fair, given what you look like in the game. You would absolutely spot an AI ghillie-wearer at many times that distance.

Games can't really simulate camouflage correctly.

[LowFlyZone 10]

We really need a system where we can control all AI skills from the game menu, for all AI in any mission (SP ofcoz, the host/server/admin should also get this ability in MP). I'm sick and tired of not knowing what I'm getting in terms of AI from any mission because of the multipliers from profile settings to mission specific AI settings, even with mods messing around it gets worse.

Specifying a random range should also be an option, for all values, then the game can just randomly apply those values to all AI in the mission. Eg: Accuracy 20-30%, Spotting time 50-100% etc...

[KeyCat 131]

I don't believe it is truth. I tested being prone and not moving and enemy did not notice me even from few meters away. Tested in beta tho. Nothing recent.

Hmm, seems I have missread you first...

We are sliding OT here but are you saying that it works to hide in tall grass in A2:OA wearing a ghillie with latest beta?

/KC

Edited January 28, 2014 by KeyCat

[Bouben 3]

Hmm, seems I have missread you first...

We are sliding OT here but are you saying that it works to hide in tall grass in A2:OA wearing a ghillie with latest beta?

/KC

No, I tested it in the beta version of Arma 3, before the full vanilla release - so it is a few months old information. I don't call current patches "beta" - I call them "dev branch".

That means, I don't know what would the same testing do today in current dev branch if I tested it.

[KeyCat 131]

No, I tested it in the beta version of Arma 3, before the full vanilla release - so it is a few months old information.

Thanks for clarifying Bouben! Will see if I find my old testmission and do the same test in A3 (will post my findings in the AI thread). Now lets get back OT else we may get spanked by the mods ;)

/KC

[oukej 2911]

A little appetizer comes as the removal of Super AI flag ;)

You can expect more changes & more info in the upcoming 2 weeks

[Bouben 3]

A little appetizer comes as the removal of Super AI flag ;)

You can expect more changes & more info in the upcoming 2 weeks

Cannot wait!

[tmp95 16]

Has any of this been implemented yet?? Meaning the micro ability to simply adjust differing aspects of the AI. That was discussed at start of this thread. I have been away from A3 for about 4 or 5 months (mainly because the AI was so bad in SP). Just wondering are we getting closer yet?

[KeyCat 131]

AFAIK it's not in yet.

/KC

[oukej 2911]

Has any of this been implemented yet?? Meaning the micro ability to simply adjust differing aspects of the AI. That was discussed at start of this thread. I have been away from A3 for about 4 or 5 months (mainly because the AI was so bad in SP). Just wondering are we getting closer yet?

The individual AI adjustment changes are not in development so far (apart from some initial research), however if everything goes well the global adjustments of AI will see a change today on dev branch. While these were in development (which is not over - more info once it successfully gets into your hands) it has stressed out even more how the whole difficulty needs a little bit of an overhaul and that may take a priority (if it is to be done at all, you know the drill ;)) before any further work on the AI configuration continues (the next would otherwise be the individual AI configuration).

More info about today's (or tomorrow's?) changes later today.

[Bouben 3]

The individual AI adjustment changes are not in development so far (apart from some initial research), however if everything goes well the global adjustments of AI will see a change today on dev branch. While these were in development (which is not over - more info once it successfully gets into your hands) it has stressed out even more how the whole difficulty needs a little bit of an overhaul and that may take a priority (if it is to be done at all, you know the drill ;)) before any further work on the AI configuration continues (the next would otherwise be the individual AI configuration).

More info about today's (or tomorrow's?) changes later today.

Oukej, thanks for the info.

However, when I check my Arma3Profile.cfg I have now these lines in the code:

skillFriendly=1;

skillEnemy=0.9000001;

precisionFriendly=0.99999994;

precisionEnemy=0.82000011;

aiLevelPreset=3;

skillAI=0;

precisionAI=0;

Does it make any sense?

SkillFriendly and SkillEnemy is still 0.9 while skillAI is 0.

PrecisionFriendly and precisionEnemy are also different than precisionAI.

Also, since beta, I am still unable to see any difference between Precision 0 and Precision 1 in my tests. The shooting and accuracy is almost the same and random with both settings. No night and day difference that would make sense for novice players. Please note that I always restart a mission when changing those values, so there should be no problem.

Thank you in advance.

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

EDIT:

Only presets seems to have some impact but that is probably more connected to skill than precision. Anyway, there is definitely something strange with it.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Bouben

[oukej 2911]

Oukej, thanks for the info.

However, when I check my Arma3Profile.cfg I have now these lines in the code:

skillFriendly=1;

skillEnemy=0.9000001;

precisionFriendly=0.99999994;

precisionEnemy=0.82000011;

aiLevelPreset=3;

skillAI=0;

precisionAI=0;

Does it make any sense?

skillFriendly

skillEnemy

precisionFriendly

precisionEnemy

Are obsolete and not used anymore. You can remove them from your .Arma3Profile (as long as you don't switch back to Stable - it aint there yet

I will investigate the Precision effect.