Buildings devoid of life....

[Polygon 11]

Bad Benson, you're one of the most sensible users on BIF. Congrats.

priorities, priorities... quality mid-range terrain tex > internal furniture. I'd prefer less detailed building models with immersive furniture inside. However, as the game's scale rises, BIS has a lot do and keep with both themselves, games industry, modders and consumers. One hell of a challenge to any non-billion $ studio (watching at you, Rockstar).

[bad benson 1733]

Bad Benson, you're one of the most sensible users on BIF. Congrats.

that's probably true. ;) but i'd still prefer if you'd try not to get personal and focus on the content of my posts. if you just want to state stuff without a reaction, the forums aren't the right place for you.

priorities, priorities... quality mid-range terrain tex > internal furniture. I'd prefer less detailed building models with immersive furniture inside. However, as the game's scale rises, BIS has a lot do and keep with both themselves, games industry, modders and consumers. One hell of a challenge to any non-billion $ studio (watching at you, Rockstar).

nothing new here. why all the clone posts? why the need to tell people that? i'm pretty sure, looking at the state of arma 3, everyone knows that. will you do the same, if i make a thread about units having foggy breath in the winter months? telling these things to people implies they don't know it. in the context of a thread like this it says people's humble (have you read the OP?) request makes no sense. all you do is trying to lecture people about how unimportant their request is. and yes telling people that mods will fix it, is certainly a "trigger" for me personally.

all i see here is lots of counter bitch reflex and not much to say.

call me sensitive but that's what you're doing here.

short version:

A: "furniture would be cool and increase immersion. it worked great in arma 2 in its simple execution"

B: "furniture isn't as important as other things"

A: "i know. so...?

that should make it pretty clear that certain posts make less sense than a thread like this.

[m1lkm8n 411]

I can't believe people are still arguing wether or not there should be furniture in the houses.

The fact of the mater is it's not that hard to do and it shoulda been done before they ever released arma3 1.0. How can you call it 1.0 (and I know the shlew of other problems) when not a single structure has any furniture in it.

The only thing I can think of is that they have only one modeler. I mean say there's one house model made. You save as house model #2. Boom now you have two models you can add different furniture to so everything's not 100% the same. Not hard.

And as far as devoting resources to other things like bigger battles or whatnot..that a separate (or should be) team of people. You have your coders working on those things and modelers working on structures and whatnot that include some type of furniture.

We've become so used to bis taking a dump on our heads that we are ready to write off the fact that this has been passed off to us as 1.0

-note. I love bis and their games. It's because of this love I am so critical. :)

[fumanwho 10]

I can't believe people are still arguing wether or not there should be furniture in the houses.

The fact of the mater is it's not that hard to do and it shoulda been done before they ever released arma3 1.0. How can you call it 1.0 (and I know the shlew of other problems) when not a single structure has any furniture in it.

The only thing I can think of is that they have only one modeler. I mean say there's one house model made. You save as house model #2. Boom now you have two models you can add different furniture to so everything's not 100% the same. Not hard.

And as far as devoting resources to other things like bigger battles or whatnot..that a separate (or should be) team of people. You have your coders working on those things and modelers working on structures and whatnot that include some type of furniture.

We've become so used to bis taking a dump on our heads that we are ready to write off the fact that this has been passed off to us as 1.0

-note. I love bis and their games. It's because of this love I am so critical. :)

Hi milky i love you, so its ok to be critical. Instead of putting furniture into houses bis did other things. If you are wondering what they did then load up arma 3 and check it out. Your argument is nonsensical, and without merit. I want furniture, armour interiors, weapon resting/bipods, tons of other features and stuff.I wont get it all and no game will ever give me all i wish for.

The problem with your post isnt that you asked for stuff. Its that you did so without spending one second considering anything else. Finite resources = Finite game.

Could they have put furniture in?? I know for a fact, that i dont know if they could or couldnt. I dont know. And you dont know. You are just another case of some one on the internet pretending to be a game designer with out knowing absolutely anything about what needs to be done or how much it costs in man power or even if its technically feasable. I am certain you know as much as me which is sfa. Use the forum to ask for stuff but dont try to add something you could not possible know about, as a fact to back up your post. Use facts dont manufacture them.

[bad benson 1733]

wow. just wow.

[cifordayzserver 119]

Hi milky i love you, so its ok to be critical. Instead of putting furniture into houses bis did other things. If you are wondering what they did then load up arma 3 and check it out. Your argument is nonsensical, and without merit. I want furniture, armour interiors, weapon resting/bipods, tons of other features and stuff.I wont get it all and no game will ever give me all i wish for.

The problem with your post isnt that you asked for stuff. Its that you did so without spending one second considering anything else. Finite resources = Finite game.

Could they have put furniture in?? I know for a fact, that i dont know if they could or couldnt. I dont know. And you dont know. You are just another case of some one on the internet pretending to be a game designer with out knowing absolutely anything about what needs to be done or how much it costs in man power or even if its technically feasable. I am certain you know as much as me which is sfa. Use the forum to ask for stuff but dont try to add something you could not possible know about, as a fact to back up your post. Use facts dont manufacture them.

You glossed over the fact that M1lkm8n has singlehandedly produced a full map port, and then took dozens of the closed BI shared buildings, gave them interiors, configured ALL the LOD's and pathed them ALL to rubble models, and added furniture (often two different version), animated doors, and shattering glass to most of them in the period of 6 months from home in his spare time?

Click ALL the links in my sig... those are all the work of largely JUST m1lkm8n over the past 6 months. I have touched literally NOTHING on the map and neither has ANYONE else, and only 2 or 3 other folks have contributed bits and pieces to the buildings... it has ALL been him, and he's a full time employed father of 2

Bad Benson has also made more progress in character animations than any other community member I know of, other that Smookie who is now a BI Developer... So neither of them are commenting from the same place of ignorance you are.... you might want to stop and think about that before you go telling people they're not adhering to facts.

[GilgaMesh 10]

What about Arma 3 Furniture Pack as DLC ? release in 3 episodes : Kitchen, living room, bathroom :dancered:

No but seriously :

The only thing I can think of is that they have only one modeler......And as far as devoting resources to other things like bigger battles or whatnot..that a separate (or should be) team of people. You have your coders working on those things and modelers working on structures and whatnot that include some type of furniture.

M1lkm8 is just right. Weapon resting and AI has really nothing to do with envioriment. All these people complaining about these stuffs are just offtopic.

[fumanwho 10]

You glossed over the fact that M1lkm8n has singlehandedly produced a full map port, and then took dozens of the closed BI shared buildings, gave them interiors, configured ALL the LOD's and pathed them ALL to rubble models, and added furniture (often two different version), animated doors, and shattering glass to most of them in the period of 6 months from home in his spare time?

Click ALL the links in my sig... those are all the work of largely JUST m1lkm8n over the past 6 months. I have touched literally NOTHING on the map and neither has ANYONE else, and only 2 or 3 other folks have contributed bits and pieces to the buildings... it has ALL been him, and he's a full time employed father of 2

Bad Benson has also made more progress in character animations than any other community member I know of, other that Smookie who is now a BI Developer... So neither of them are commenting from the same place of ignorance you are.... you might want to stop and think about that before you go telling people they're not adhering to facts.

Finite resources = Finite game.

---------- Post added at 02:38 ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 ----------

Some one spent six months on a map therefore and i am directly quoting here "We've become so used to bis taking a dump on our heads " is ok to say?. Total bs. No furniture does not = "taking a dump on our heads". The most bug free arma ever. Compared to crysis for graphics. The best map of any tactical shooter i have ever played. Better ai, backpacks, inventory,mines,scuba,movement,sound design,particle effects,wind,lighting,uavs,enterable buildings,destruction,armour hit modeling,penetration,arty ammo for 30 euros. Oh ya they really fucked us over they forgot to put a couch in what a bunch of assholes, i think i will write a post informing them of thier poor performance.

If ya want to see a company take a dump on their customers heads look at sim city, season passes, first day unlocks,in game dlc,in game ads for dlc.

Well sim city is a very differant game, lets try a little closer to home, any one playing delta force? ghost recon? ro2? not really the tac shooters they used to be.

Arma and pr are the last tactical shooters left. This forum is overrun with people who have no perspective on how bad things could be. A medium sized company is making a game with massive scope and triple a graphics. And you should be happy that they are because games that dont update their graphics go the way of wwiiol.

[cifordayzserver 119]

I think you lack perspective, and capability of understanding how trivial a feat it is to put furniture into buildings...

The giant dump on customers heads likely was:

1. To be taken half seriously.

2. More in reference to the complete absence of quality (much less quantity of) vehicles, buildings, cities, attention to detail, and oh I don't know... MISSIONS?

I paid for the supporter edition, if you showed me the exact product launched back in March, I wouldn't have believed it was anything other than a joke.... and believe me I'm on the "be patient it'll get better" train... but seriously what they called 1.0 is more like 0.1... Getting your base established and admittedly being completely lacking in content is NOT a finished game... it's the beginning of most co's development push.

What I think you're also failing to realize is that we all have our heads WAY UP BI's skirt and have seen the cellulite and her dirty drawers.. seriously it's not fun finding out the girl you've got a crush on has skid marks....

The attention to detail and quality of production for the buildings specifically (and historically) is just not up to par... I find it refreshing that for the 1st time ever you don't see OFP buildings on the newest map... but it sure would have been nice if they spent an extra couple weeks finishing them... it's just poor practice IMO... nuance is what makes most special games special...

[.kju 3244]

One can have different opinions about preferences, yet I think there are good reasons why they aren't objects inside buildings:

1. Performance

2. Effort

3. Priorities

4. AI

5. Movement

Altis is already over the top in terms of resource use (cpu+vram) - adding even more to it is at least questionable.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Well I am certainly not the expert here in terms of modelling and I made it clear in my first post that I still love BIS bcoz we have Arma series in the first place.

But it is something that should be addressed at some point bcoz it is quite ridiculous and completely unrealistic and SN immersion killer to fun through every empty building.

Arma2 had it to a degree and operation arrowhead had some beautifully detailed buildings. But we have taken a huge step backwards in this series and that's very disappointing.

I'm not asking for hugely detailed rooms and dozens of variations but Bis modellers can and should do a lot better!

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------

And for the douche bags who feel the need to clutter this thread with, ' furniture is less important than.....' , F off and go and spam another thread. ;)

[maffa 29]

well i dont see how furniture in A2 were any good, since you were likely to get stuck to immovable kitchen tables and chairs when you magaged to find one open building.

if i have to play in a building (and A3 let you to do so becauwe all houses are open) i want to be able to move freely. If i cant because make all furniture destructable is a pain, i prefer none, because not being able to move a chair IS an immersion killer. And the same goes for windows and shutters.

[dmarkwick 261]

This is a topic that's been discussed a few times before. personally, I'm ambivalent on the subject, so empty building are OK with me. I'm much more interested in the pragmatic uses of buildings than their dressing. As such, I would see any furnishings limited to either against the wall furnishings only, or furnishings that have no collision i.e. just visual only. We don't need the added frustration of rattling about in small rooms when we know that IRL we would automatically navigate such a space without thinking.

[Polygon 11]

I was never against bringing normal interiors back into A3. populating empty buildings by placing misc and other objects in editor is a torture. so binarized proxies were always a better choice.

In case performance suffers on Altis with furniture added to buildings, it shows that BIS went for a marketing friendly approach to their game with too much scale for a single island (which you can label as "HUGE" to the public easily), and would've better created multiple islands (OFP style) instead. More detail, less size.

[m1lkm8n 411]

;2538393']One can have different opinions about preferences' date=' yet I think there are good reasons why they aren't objects inside buildings:

1. Performance

2. Effort

3. Priorities

4. AI

5. Movement

Altis is already over the top in terms of resource use (cpu+vram) - adding even more to it is at least questionable.[/quote']

1. Performance (don't understand this one. I've got everything on max and it runs just fine on my pc)

2. Effort (minimal)

3. Priorities (ok fine, but they are video game designers. It's part of their job.)

4. AI (I think at this point in the series a new path system should be in place. Ai should be able to navigate anything the player can. Instead of only being able to go from point a to point b in a straight line)

5. Movement (I understand this one. No one likes to get stuck on a kitchen chair but then I think maybe there should be more going on here. Physics so the kitchen chair can fall over If bumped into and pushed out of the way. There's plenty of option just none in the game)

Edited October 20, 2013 by M1lkm8n

[.kju 3244]

1. You cannot compare Sahrani with Altis. For the later the performance is obviously not fine for most - especially in MP.

2. How many different buildings does A3 have?

3. Sorry your response doesn't make sense. Quite the contrary. The project lead has to decide how to allocate the finite resources.

4. Wishful thinking does not apply unfortunately. The AI has still way more fundamental and significant problems so far.

5. You may have read that they disabled certain basic simulation to get more reasonable performance on Altis (DZ SA even disables them completely) and you suggest more?

[m1lkm8n 411]

Im done with this stupid argument. They obviously dont care and arguing amonst ourselves accomplishes nothing. And I'm not comparing sahrani to anything. But I don't see how a few chairs will effect mp.

All I'm saying is these people are video game designers. That would be like rockstar releasing gta5 without hookers. They may not be integral to the game but they certainly add to it ;)

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Ok performance has been an issue for some. Personally, I don't think adding a bit more detail to buildings would affect that.

In terms of resources, modellers model scriptures/ programmers work on the performance and AI.

That's how I see it.

[KingoftheSandbox 10]

How can someone say furnitures are just eye candy? They are not! Its about the believable world which Arma 3 allready simulates great, but a world without life so far. Im surprised with the very good CloseQuartersBattle in the third part, but its like fighting outside without any vegetation.

[fumanwho 10]

Im done with this stupid argument. They obviously dont care and arguing amonst ourselves accomplishes nothing. And I'm not comparing sahrani to anything. But I don't see how a few chairs will effect mp.

All I'm saying is these people are video game designers. That would be like rockstar releasing gta5 without hookers. They may not be integral to the game but they certainly add to it ;)

This is so full of bs. "All I'm saying is these people are video game designers" No what you said was they were assholes for not putting furniture in. "That would be like rockstar releasing gta5 without hookers" or multiplayer?????

This argument boils down to its easy so they should have done it. Have you seen the huge list of easy feature requests? Why should they have picked furniture? Were they not busy doing other things like make arma 3? Did all the katibas, mx's, hunters, ifitts,ghosthawks etc etc just appear out of thin air? Did they get them for free? Was there no effort involded in making all the stuff thats in the game? Why is it acceptable for you to completly ignore everthing that has been done. Why is it acceptable for you to post this bs? I dont know why they didnt prioritise furniture and you certainly dont know ether. So to make the argument that they should have with out knowing why they did not. Is complete and utter bs.

[Polygon 11]

This is so full of bs. "All I'm saying is these people are video game designers" No what you said was they were assholes for not putting furniture in. "That would be like rockstar releasing gta5 without hookers" or multiplayer?????

This argument boils down to its easy so they should have done it. Have you seen the huge list of easy feature requests? Why should they have picked furniture? Were they not busy doing other things like make arma 3? Did all the katibas, mx's, hunters, ifitts,ghosthawks etc etc just appear out of thin air? Did they get them for free? Was there no effort involded in making all the stuff thats in the game? Why is it acceptable for you to completly ignore everthing that has been done. Why is it acceptable for you to post this bs? I dont know why they didnt prioritise furniture and you certainly dont know ether. So to make the argument that they should have with out knowing why they did not. Is complete and utter bs.

So, wise-guy, do you have any actual Arma modding experience to counter Milkman's point of view? I bet not. That renders you incompetent enough to not make hideous assumptions about what is being worked on, priorities set by BIS, etc. Calming the tits may be the best idea instead of attacking a passionate modder.

[Sealife 22]

it would be easier and more efficient if a mission maker did it

why ?

Because a lot of people really do have performance issues already , therefore if BIS made furniture mandatory by adding via the terrain tool or adding via proxy to the house then , it would be a Mare to undo .

for anybody wanting funiture for a mission not only can they spawn them in dynamically ( player distance area then spawn etc) ,they can also do dynamic types and positions,

now i dont know what furniture is made but i saw lots of chairs and tables in configs , all it would need would be for mission makers or groups of player and mission makers to colaborate and walk round buildings and stand in a location and mark there spot and ideas for what would be good there .

Diag_log is your friend here and Arrays your other friend .

housetype = _x then spawn furniture type at defined pos(s) , probably easiest addon to make so far in A3 . and would give BIS fantastic data if they wished to one day place permanent things ;)

for me i dont want furniture because of performance and AI pathways , however if i was towant it , i would want it dynamically not proxied like A1 /A2 was .

My2 cents .

[m1lkm8n 411]

I know. I know. Slap me in the face. I said I wasn't going to respond anymore. But I just wanted to say I understand sealife, your point on performance, but I don't understand why everyone uses the ai to blame. The ai follow pathways. Place a proper pathway for them to follow and furniture will be no problem for them.

[Sealife 22]

I know. I know. Slap me in the face. I said I wasn't going to respond anymore. But I just wanted to say I understand sealife, your point on performance, but I don't understand why everyone uses the ai to blame. The ai follow pathways. Place a proper pathway for them to follow and furniture will be no problem for them.

AI pathways as you know are in the Building lods and they wont deviate and cannot be changed , so if we agree as we must that performance for 45% of A3 owners on Altis is around about 15 - 35 FPs and furniture would make around 10 - 30 FPS , this eliminate any sense for BIS to place them as they cannot undo it , as such then we have ideal solution left for us , make it dynamic by mission maker and in time if some positions become known to be not any problem then , when and if BIS solve performance they can add it via the p3d . visitor method .

i just filled a house in 30 secods by walking around and recrding my positon so its not Big Ask of anyone to do it really but massive ask for BIS to take a gamble .

[-=seany=- 5]

My guess is because of performance. And I actually don't mind. Arma's buildings always hit the CPU very hard, A3 is no exception. The outside of the buildings look very nice so maybe they decided to go with very detailed exteriors and not much detail interiors. Another constant complaint for Arma2 (Chernarus) was that so many buildings where un-enterable. Pretty much every building on Altis seems to be enterable, so maybe this is the compromise we have to have.

Dev's can't win:

Lots enterable buildings that have a detailed exterior and no objects inside:- people complain that there is no objects in buildings

Lots of objects in buildings, but not many enterable buildings:- people complain because they can't enter most buildings.

Choose your poison :)