Buildings devoid of life....

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Is there a way to populate buildings with objects BIS? As good as the buildings are they really need some objects in them - not hand placed but perhaps should be part of the models?

Or is there a way to spawn furniture in the houses?

Would really add to the immersion / realism.

Still love the game though.

[mamasan8 11]

Or...it would add annoyance to the game, getting stuck in every house you enter. Or worse, AI getting stuck and you searching for that AI for hours and when you find that AI you can't shoot him, through the wall of the house.

Ever ended up under a house? I have, multiple times. As simple as these houses are, they still bug out constantly. Why make it worse?

[tpw 2315]

How about a compromise - an ambient furniture module. That way some of us could enjoy playing on an island where it doesn't look like aliens abducted the furniture. Others could keep it spartan (pun intended).

[mr_centipede 31]

How about a compromise - an ambient furniture module. That way some of us could enjoy playing on an island where it doesn't look like aliens abducted the furniture. Others could keep it spartan (pun intended).

A hint for tpw_furniture? :p

[BadHabitz 235]

Buildings devoid of life, or servers devoid of performance...

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Stay on topic plz ;).

Seriously, would a furniture module work? Need something in those houses!!

[GilgaMesh 10]

Or...it would add annoyance to the game, getting stuck in every house you enter. Or worse, AI getting stuck and you searching for that AI for hours and when you find that AI you can't shoot him, through the wall of the house.

Ever ended up under a house? I have, multiple times. As simple as these houses are, they still bug out constantly. Why make it worse?

Sorry, but what you sed doesn't mean much.

1) AI is a problem.

2) Glitchy houses are a problem.

3) Missing furniture is a problem.

Following your mind that would simply mean "don't solve the problems".

Buildings devoid of life, or servers devoid of performance...

Meh, that's my personal opinion... But on foot I would enjoy playing with a view distance of 1000 m having furniture and others small details, instead of a 3000 m view distance but with a pretty empty envioriment :)

Edited October 19, 2013 by GilgaMesh

[bad benson 1733]

Or...it would add annoyance to the game, getting stuck in every house you enter. Or worse, AI getting stuck and you searching for that AI for hours and when you find that AI you can't shoot him, through the wall of the house.

Ever ended up under a house? I have, multiple times. As simple as these houses are, they still bug out constantly. Why make it worse?

i heard that before and i think it's bs. furniture was never a problem before. there was maybe one single house that had a table in the middle of the room (small black one on chernarus). everything else was like 2 closets on the wall. if anything the problem is the shitty way arma handles collision in buildings overall and not furniture. but saying furniture would be in the way is just silly. we're talking about a few objects on the wall like in previous titles not fully furnished living rooms. a painting on the wall here and there. arma 3 looks very sterile and the world looks nothing like a war torn area let a lone somewhere people live/lived. not even some garbage in the corner of rooms or some pushed over chairs. it looks like a clean architecture tech demo presentation for a model village or something.

i really hate it when people find excuses for missing stuff like that. let me tell you this. if they would've removed the shutters on the windows and used the polies for some simple closets THAT would have been a benefit for indoor gameplay. it just shows a lack of connection between departments. those shutters may be a nice detail to look at in a render but they are a nightmare if you actually play the game. this is no design decision. just another case of lack of resources and finish. and that "joke" by BI on the news papers is just lame. it just shows the bubble they live in when it comes to stuff like this.

EDIT: if you want tos see how it's done, check out milkman's channel. no furniture in the way and building interaction that makes sense and increases immersion. take notes BI.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwn3CuqIPPgBQ3vHLUO9w9A/videos

Edited October 19, 2013 by Bad Benson

[defk0n_NL 2]

I just wish BIS could just provide the community with more tools/commands.

feature begging is not going to help. We need more modding support so people can actually turn this "1 step forward 2 steps back" thing around.

For every new feature BIS adds their will be numerous game/immersion/realism breaking bugs taking its place. That's not because they don't know what they are doing.

I definitely have some faith in that. Its because of the sheer scale of everything. The last spot rep talked about 5 guys basically making the entire Altis map.

Who would not burn out with a task like that. Not to mention deadlines etc. Not trying to find excuses for BIS. I have been pretty vocal about some of the stuff mentioned before.

In the end it doesn't really matter though. ArmA as it stands right now is too end user focused. It has little potential to mod ArmA3 into something its not besides quasi realism shooter.

Sure you can throw on top a WW2 reskin, or a Zombie Reskin, but expanding on some of the core features is like fighting against the current.

Dont get me wrong, ArmA is a sandbox but a pretty small one, how ironically that may sound with a map that big.

The scripting functions leave little room for creative input, they are purely functional.

Things i wish bis would improve on besides returning the alien abducted furniture.

OOP framework. Being able to dynamically access/modify/add all the soldier/house/car/radio/inventory variables currently locked inside configs and being able to actually start using them.

i.e say i have downloaded a car someone made. But its raining and i need windshield wipers. Then instead of me having to try to adjust the model (god knows how you do that) why not let players create the windshield wiper model. add car variables, and attachTo models i.e:

 
windshield.p3d attachTo[car1 [x,y,z,yaw,pitch]]; 
onClick[car1 action ["windshields"]] do {
animate["windshield.p3d", "animation.rtm"] 
}

where the models/animations would already be prefetched via manifest or something.

just my .2c

Edited October 19, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[bad benson 1733]

Not trying to find excuses for BIS.

uhm. it's what you just did though. just saying :p

this thread isn't about missing commands. ofc all us modders want them. but let's not start this silly "you can't have this if you want that"-cycle. the lack of furniture sucks. period. there has been furniture that made buildings more immersive before. period.

scripting commands could've and have been added over years (eventhough not what we need in a lot of cases) but furniture is a simple job for modellers. prepare simple furniture. place proxies. done.

as i said. the resources for the shutters that make gameplay worse could've easily been used for very simple furniture objects. the thing is. we won't have access to the models when it matters (maybe when arma 4 arrives). so there's no way of fixing it. calling it feature begging is kind of unfair. are we supposed to only ask for stuff that fits your personal priorities now? how is "begging" for script commands not feature begging?

so please stop with the excuses for stuff that is just lacking. it makes no sense.

That's not because they don't know what they are doing.

I definitely have some faith in that. Its because of the sheer scale of everything.

this makes zero sense when talking about the kind of ambient furniture people ask for. the buildings are reused over and over. it's a one time job by the modeller.

[defk0n_NL 2]

uhm. it's what you just did though. just saying :p

this thread isn't about missing commands. ofc all us modders want them. but let's not start this silly "you can't have this if you want that"-cycle. the lack of furniture sucks. period. there has been furniture that made buildings more immersive before. period.

scripting commands could've and have been added over years (eventhough not what we need in a lot of cases) but furniture is a simple job for modellers. prepare simple furniture. place proxies. done.

as i said. the resources for the shutters that make gameplay worse could've easily been used for very simple furniture objects. the thing is. we won't have access to the models when it matters (maybe when arma 4 arrives). so there's no way of fixing it. calling it feature begging is kind of unfair. are we supposed to only ask for stuff that fits your personal priorities now? how is "begging" for script commands not feature begging?

so please stop with the excuses for stuff that is just lacking. it makes no sense.

this makes zero sense when talking about the kind of ambient furniture people ask for. the buildings are reused over and over. it's a one time job by the modeller.

You are right that begging for script commands also is feature begging.

There is however a difference, just adding furniture will not solve some of these usability problems. You will have a nice furniture but the things that are broken will still stay broken.

It would be more logical to try and advocate for some sort of OOP framework (SDK) where people can build & compile on top of bis models without them having to actually give everything away.

Source engine did it like this. They did not gave away all their models (or so i believe). They just broke them apart, and let people build stuff with it.

we won't have access to the models when it matters (maybe when arma 4 arrives). so there's no way of fixing it.***

BIS is a game company, they have deadlines to reach. money to make, bubblegum to chew. The models bis use is their proprietary right. It would be retarded to give it away like that in some uncontrolled explosion.

it's a one time job by the modeller

Its never a one time job. Having to anticipate for any and all possible uses is beyond what i expect from a game i payed 30 bucks for.

The thing is, even if BIS decides to add furniture's. They would all be copy pasted across the whole map. Their would be no way to change them beyond that point. It would be a really generic looking furniture. maybe a cabinet and some stools.

Edited October 19, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[bad benson 1733]

There is however a difference, just adding furniture will not solve some of these usability problems. You will have a nice furniture but the things that are broken will still stay broken.

It would be more logical to try and advocate for some sort of OOP framework (SDK) where people can build & compile on top of bis models without them having to actually give everything away.

Source engine did it like this. They did not gave away all their models (or so i believe). They just broke them apart, and let people build stuff with it.

Its never a one time job. Having to anticipate for any and all possible uses is beyond what i expect from a game i payed 30 bucks for.

so when you ask for a total core change it suddenly doesn't matter how much resources they have but when people ask for something simple that has been done before you pull out that generic lecture about game developement that we all have heard so many times before?

i fail to understand your logic. sorry. all i see is personal priorities being applied as universial fact.

look at the youtube channel i linked. that is the work of one guy. and i have worked with buildings and proxies before too. so don't tell me how hard it is. it simply isn't. period.

It would be a really generic looking furniture. maybe a cabinet and some stools.

yup. it would be awesome. :) people want exactly that. what's your point?

EDIT: also your windshield example makes no sense. in the case of furniture the "parent" object (house) isn't moving. so you don't need attachto and you could simply animate the "child" onject already since it's its own entity. in fact you could script furniture by using a huge amount of resources. that's besides the point though.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Bad Benson

[.kju 3245]

mission created objects are very bad for performance. see Wasteland and co

even with enableSimulation false there is probably a significant impact

also AI probably doesnt work as well with mission created objects

why didnt BI add them as part of the models - the additional sections and textures would have a significant impact in performance

[defk0n_NL 2]

so when you ask for a total core change it suddenly doesn't matter how much resources they have but when people ask for something simple that has been done before you pull out that generic lecture about game developement that we all have heard so many times before?

i fail to understand your logic. sorry. all i see is personal priorities being applied as universial fact.

First of all, I rather pay a good chunk of money for a proper SDK where i can built something with my own hands. Then spending money on content DLC's

Second, I dont see how making it easier for modders to mod can actually be anything but a development cost saver.

So i think you are a little confused.

You are demanding from BIS to add furnitures, for free? paid? While linking to a video about a modder making furniture's?

Furniture's can already be done, But its too cumbersome to make a entire house just for the furniture right?

So taking in mind your already existing experience in proxies and buildings you rather have the ability to add furniture to existing houses, correct?

"Round and round she goes"

;2538064']mission created objects are very bad for performance. see Wasteland and co

even with enableSimulation false there is probably a significant impact

also AI probably doesnt work as well with mission created objects

why didnt BI add them as part of the models - the additional sections and textures would have a significant impact in performance

yer, you are right. But what if their was a possibility to add stuff to their proxies. Let it compile ontop of existing models. (Dont have experience in modelling. Just throwing it out there)

Edited October 19, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[progamer 14]

;2538064']mission created objects are very bad for performance. see Wasteland and co

even with enableSimulation false there is probably a significant impact

also AI probably doesnt work as well with mission created objects

why didnt BI add them as part of the models - the additional sections and textures would have a significant impact in performance

Can't you use rockets solution? Of spawning in the items only when a player is near?

[.kju 3245]

still way worse than terrain objects / as part of models - which already has the said negative impact

hence why in DZ SA they disabled most/any simulation for mission created objects to get at least closer/less the impact

try the town generator module (in OA/CO) - significant performance impact and generic, aka boring, placement

to create something considerable better it would be a big effort requiring very high skill and lots of time

[cifordayzserver 119]

M1lkm8ns work on Sahrani I think is a very good example, those buildings that he's added furniture to, were by and large un-enterable previously, so we're not just talking about added furniture. That's going from basically a square box on the map in 100's of places, to a fully dynamic enterable building.

M1lkm8n has been adding tons of furniture, animated doors, windows, and shattering glass to those buildings in Sahrani for months now, on top of higher res ground textures, and we've little to no performance (noticeable (have not run actual stress test comparo's) decrease... and we use the map for DayZ play as well, where we also load TONS of objects/buildings via the config town generator (which we changed from dynamically spawning to calling all the buildings on server restart)... and again... get REALLY good performance. And no one was able to tell that our buildings were not "on the map" by default..

It's more about balancing things than it is saying "you can't do this because of that"... as mentioned many times by BB... saying that furniture will reduce performance is insane when you are talking about tiny buildings with shuttered windows with individual slats.... those shutters have more poly's in one side of one window than 5-10 pieces of furniture would...

We made config town generator spawn objects server side on restart so that they do not dynamically load, because the calling and cleanup procedures when called dynamically for those provide almost as much of a performance hit as the extra poly's do... Should SOME things be called dynamically? sure. but IMO there is no excuse for the lack of "finish" in A3 other than them being honest (which IMO they have been) and saying... well... it's not "finished"..

I can't help but think in a year or so when the equiv. of OA is out for A3, there will be decorated houses and animated doors/windows/furniture etc in A3...

And honestly I think that BI have made a better decision than we have on Sahrani... We've chose to complete each building as much as possible before adding it or including it... this is largely because we want to share them with other terrain artists and don't want to ask anyone to use half assed buildings...

BUT if we had focused on only building interiors we would likely have 3-4 very large feature buildings down by now in addition to all the smaller ones... there are merritts and downsides to both approaches... but if you're looking to meet a deadline for releasing a full map/game... get the buildings done first is not even a question, if it's a choice between finishing them all or finishing 60-80 percent WITH furniture... then clearly we should all admit that's not a choice.. you HAVE to finish the buildings 1st.

It would be AWESOME to see a module though decorate the rooms according to some rules... Arma3 Feng Shui module

[bad benson 1733]

So i think you are a little confused.

You are demanding from BIS to add furnitures, for free? paid? While linking to a video about a modder making furniture's?

Furniture's can already be done, But its too cumbersome to make a entire house just for the furniture right?

So taking in mind your already existing experience in proxies and buildings you rather have the ability to add furniture to existing houses, correct?

i think you are the on who's confused. the furniture models in these videos are made by BI and placed like BI placed them in their own buildings in arma 2.

you were saying that doing so would have potential for further problems or is cumbersome which is simply not true. also the buildings shown are arma 1 mlods. so what's your point? you want me to hack the arma 3 models and add furniture proxies for my personal use? please stop talking out your ass please.

these videos i linked to only show how very possible it is in a short time (placing the furniture). so please stop with the debate club nonsense. i think you are in the wrong thread. there are places to discuss how much attachto is lacking or what commands you want to see in the game.

i 100% agree that more commands for more dynamic model manipulation are needed. it's just off topic here.

no need to come here and make cheap arguments against a few ambient furniture objects. making the game more moddable and having furniture proxy models are entirely unrelated topics (unless you are trying really hard...:rolleyes: ). there are reasons why arma is still like a beta. and we all know them. no reason to not point out stuff that lacks and be vocal about it especially when it's a known fact that modding it is impossible and scripting it is a non solution.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Bad Benson

[katipo66 94]

How important is seeing furniture compared with other improvements additions? I'd rather they spent time on large scale AI tactics, or even focusing on believable ambient life, civilians have always looked and behaved awkwardly in the game to the point of being less immersive when they are included.

Until Arma becomes Arma Noire I'd prefer they stay focused on the large scale battles aspect and making that as believable as possible before interior eye candy.

[bad benson 1733]

sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever. so you are saying the weapon resting threads and the ones about jets and anything else are pointless just because arma lacks also core improvements? i don't get it. maybe you should make a thread about what you think is most important so we can discuss it there. besides. no one said that they want furniture be top most priority in developement...

[katipo66 94]

I just consider it (furniture) as eye candy, unlike weapon resting, jets and all other things that help improve gameplay.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Katipo66

[bad benson 1733]

I just consider it (furniture) as eye candy

well tell that BI. they seem to be wasting their time with light shafts and rain improvement instead of improving mass battles. silly devs.

you consider it eye candy because it IS eye candy. everyone is aware of that. you are just implying that this thread is pointless because of that, which kind of weird if you ask me. i find this phobia that devs will waste their time with unimportant stuff based on what threads are created quite amusing.

[katipo66 94]

Light shafts and improved rain have instant impact and makes sense as eye candy, table and couch doesn't? What would be better time spent is more and varied firing positions from within the buildings, like cracks in walls etc, things like that to enhance the gameplay, if a modder can do it then great but would not like to see any BI resource wasted on it, no phobia or drama just my opinion :)

[defk0n_NL 2]

i think you are the on who's confused. the furniture models in these videos are made by BI and placed like BI placed them in their own buildings in arma 2.

you were saying that doing so would have potential for further problems or is cumbersome which is simply not true. also the buildings shown are arma 1 mlods. so what's your point? you want me to hack the arma 3 models and add furniture proxies for my personal use? please stop talking out your ass please.

Look they are not going to release the A3 official lods anytime soon. They haven't even released the A2 lods yet, which they announced.

So for a modder to make high quality furniture in A3 it would require making the entire house in order for proxies to support furniture and between all the high priority items on the bugtracker its hard for me to believe they would just stop fixing those issues for added furniture. Something that has no purpose besides looking pretty. The suggestion i made was broadly in the sense of, BIS should support modders more so we can do it ourselves. Instead of "ZOMG BIS GIVE ME FURNITUREE"

these videos i linked to only show how very possible it is in a short time (placing the furniture). so please stop with the debate club nonsense. i think you are in the wrong thread. there are places to discuss how much attachto is lacking or what commands you want to see in the game.

Pulling out A2 objects and placing it inside a released A1 lod is different then actually designing the house and furniture's on A3 scale wont you say? I doubt BIS would agree with you on their timescale but im still holding out for the future. Who knows. I actually like furniture.

and although i do believe attachto is lacking somewhat. Its not what i am referring to when talking about improved OOP support.

i 100% agree that more commands for more dynamic model manipulation are needed. it's just off topic here.

no need to come here and make cheap arguments against a few ambient furniture objects. making the game more moddable and having furniture proxy models are entirely unrelated topics (unless you are trying really hard...:rolleyes: ).

Cheap arguments? Against what? What do you consider cheap? How are modifiable house/car proxies unrelated suggestions when talking about furniture/house proxies, i have yet to hear you level a reasonable argument against it besides. "Personal priorities" and related ad hominem.

I see how you fail to understand my logic. Matter of fact. I honestly believe you fail to understand the concept of logic entirely...

Reply as you wish i am not responding back unless you can actually make a coherent piece of thought.

Edited October 19, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[bad benson 1733]

I actually like furniture.

nuff said. why bother then? no one is after changing your precious developement priorities. i bet BI cares about 0% about yours or mine.

Pulling out A2 objects and placing it inside a released A1 lod is different then actually designing the house and furniture's on A3 scale wont you say?

how is it different? you mean the incredible amount of work involved making 3 closets and a bed (like in arma 2 which were recycled from arma 1) and then going through the models and place the proxies?

I see how you fail to understand my logic. Matter of fact. I honestly believe you fail to understand the concept of logic entirely...

Reply as you wish i am not responding back unless you can actually make a coherent piece of thought.

calm your tits, will ya? no need to call me stupid.

you are talking about them giving us a solution so we can fix it ourselves by adding a complex command to handle proxies dynamically. and for some reason you think that this is a much more logical solution and less work than the modellers at BI (who i'm sure don't create new script commands) just adding a few proxies for some simple models. i don't know why to be honest. but so much for logic...

maybe you are a bit too much into your initial idea even after having it thought through for you by others...?

Cheap arguments? Against what? What do you consider cheap?

telling people they don't understand developement processes as a magic bullet argument is cheap in my book. but might be just me.

Instead of "ZOMG BIS GIVE ME FURNITUREE"

another one. totally makes sense. i salute your splendid arguments.

i have yet to hear you level a reasonable argument against it besides.

argument against what? i'd love a command like that. why wouldn't i? why not make a thread about it so i can praise you for the idea instead of coming here telling people that all that is missing is a "simple" command to help modders to fix this. *sigh*