Binocular sway

[fujix 11]

I see that there is still a large amount of sway when using binoculars/rangefinders/laser designators. When the increased (and overdone, but thats for another thread) weapon sway was introduced this also applied to binocular family.

If you zoom in with your rangefinder for example you will notice a huge amount of sway making it hard to observe an area. Same applies to the laser designator, making it hard to paint targets at long ranges since the aim is all over the place.

There should be no sway at all when using binoculars.

Now my question is will the binocular family get separated from weapons and have their sway removed or is this what the devs intend?

[SaBrE_UK 0]

Why should there be no sway at all? Also, like a rifle you can hold your breath to steady. A 'deploy' option as you might for a bipod could be interesting and useful here.

[fujix 11]

Have you used binoculars in real life? Last I did I was able to hold them steady = no sway.

[Wisp 10]

Why should there be no sway at all? Also, like a rifle you can hold your breath to steady. A 'deploy' option as you might for a bipod could be interesting and useful here.

Because binoculars are much lighter than a rifle and don't require a lot of effort to steady.

[RushHour 11]

Yea noticed this last night. When standing the guy has the same aim as a guy that´s been out drinking all night and have Parkinson on top of that. It´s not realistic at all.

Crouch sway is good, replace that one with the standing up-sway.

[maddogx 13]

See the corresponding ticket.

[down8 30]

Yes, is totally overdone.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Dam had forget this. I wrote just my opinion in the ticket but I say it here also.

It's overdone. You can't hold breath much so it's ridiculous with zoomed in rangefinder and it's very hard to keep it steady even if you hold breath.

[KeyCat 131]

I agree that sway when using binocs/rangefinder is way to much. Would be nice to see this toned down to ~1/5 of current sway.

/KC

Edited August 28, 2013 by KeyCat

[Zorg_DK 10]

Agreed, sway should be reduced a little.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Zorg_DK

[kylania 568]

Laying down with a Laser Designator it's impossible to hold the laser on a tank sized target at 400m due to sway. The target will eventually sway off above or below.

[roguetrooper 2]

When you have to stand (looking out of a window or over a 'high' obstacle), it is almost impossible to determine the distance of a small target that is several hundred metres away (i.e. focus the aimpoint of the range finder on the target). The sway for binoculars should be drastically reduced or removed at all.

[maffa 29]

upvoted.

and truth be told, i dont see why insisting in putting so much sway in general when options to stabiliz eyour aim are this limited (i.e. no stock bipod/lay weapon options)

[Hunter Rose 10]

Have you used binoculars in real life? Last I did I was able to hold them steady = no sway.

Says it all. The sway in this game is ridiculous on most items. Reminds me of the game Infiltration, where the scope reticules would go all over the place until you held your breath. It was WAY overdone.

[-Coulum- 35]

Th implementation of the sway in Binoculars is bad because its far to disorienting... but (and I know I am going to get jumped on for this) holding optics with that amount of magnification isn't easy. Using it to observe something isn't hard because our eyes can compensate a bit for the movement of optic. But actually keeping it pointed at a specific point is actually really challenging. If you have a powerful enough laser pointer, attach it to a pair of binoculars and try holding it on a man sized target at 400m. It is actually very hard. Its why FACs do this and this. Just do a search of forward air controller in images and you will be hard pressed to see a guy using hist marker not in prone, sitting (high prone ingame) or deployed on some sort of stand. There is a reason for that.

Laying down with a Laser Designator it's impossible to hold the laser on a tank sized target at 400m due to sway. The target will eventually sway off above or below.

Exaggerating?

Every 10 seconds or so you have to move the mouse a bit. I don't think that's impossible. I mean you do want to have be involved a bit don't you?

Have you used binoculars in real life? Last I did I was able to hold them steady = no sway.

Was it 60x magnification a good 10 pounds heavy and have a laser attached to it? Like I said the eye naturally stabilizes your view to a degree so that you can easily look and observe through binoculars. It looks steady. But holding a laser on target at long distance is not easy.

So basically I don't like the fact that the view is so disorienting, but I don't really mind difficulty keeping a laser on target. I just wish you could deploy it on a bipod or something like they do in reality.

Edited October 15, 2013 by -Coulum-

[Hunter Rose 10]

Oh, yeah. At 60x, that's not bad. :p It would be hard to hold it that steady. I thought you were talking about normal scopes, etc. at like 4x.

[roguetrooper 2]

Coulum, you are lying down. Try it STANDING. (Btw, have the laser designator and the binoculars/rangefinder the same sway?)

[maddogx 13]

Coulum, you are lying down. Try it STANDING. (Btw, have the laser designator and the binoculars/rangefinder the same sway?)

Yup. This problem affects all "binocular type weapons" and the excessive swaying is unfortunately tied directly to the binocular-holding-related animations. There is apparently no config variable to simply reduce the swaying, so it's not a trivial problem to fix. (Requires adjustment of the animation.) Totally wrong. Apparently I misunderstood. :o

I know that the devs are aware of this issue though, so we should get a fix once one of the anim guys gets around to it (i.e. Eventuallyâ„¢). Already done.

Edited October 16, 2013 by MadDogX

[10t 12]

To address the issue of eyes doing a good job of compensating for sway while still making lasing while standing realistically difficult, what if the view was still but the stencil had the sway. Best of both worlds?

Coulum, you are lying down. Try it STANDING

His video is a direct response to someone's complaint (quoted immediately above the video) about sway while prone.

[roberthammer 582]

Btw guys in todays dev update - pettka tweaked the binocular sway

I have tweaked the sway, could You, please, give it a try tomorrow in a dev branch and let me know? Thanks a lot.

[maddogx 13]

Btw guys in todays dev update - pettka tweaked the binocular sway

Well, that was quick. ;)

[-Coulum- 35]

Coulum, you are lying down. Try it STANDING. (Btw, have the laser designator and the binoculars/rangefinder the same sway?)

Someone said that it was impossible to keep the laser on a tank sized target when prone at 400m. I don't think that was accurate thus the video. Standing and crouched were bad, made me feel sick it was so bouncy at higher zooms. But was it necessarily unrealistic - I don't think so.

But that being said I am really happy with today's update. Seems like prone sway is what you get for standing and crouched with binoculars. Not realistic but overall better for gameplay especially considering the fact that we don't have bipods, are unable to rest the laser marker on anything and in reality it is easer to stay focused on something because our eyes aren't glued to the centre of the screen like in game.

To address the issue of eyes doing a good job of compensating for sway while still making lasing while standing realistically difficult, what if the view was still but the stencil had the sway. Best of both worlds?

Could work but I don't think it would be easy/worth it to implement (for laser would the laser point at the centre of the screen or the centre of the sencil?). What they did in today's patch is fine, binoculars and laser targeting aren't that big a deal.

[10t 12]

Could work but I don't think it would be easy/worth it to implement (for laser would the laser point at the centre of the screen or the centre of the sencil?).

Laser would be tied to the stencil/binoculer movement. And yes, I doubt it'd be easy to implement, since it would make binos/rangefinders/designators the odd ducks out when it came to weaponry sway. Definitely an idle, hypothetical comment. Still, would be interested to see how it would feel to use in game.

[fujix 11]

Was it 60x magnification a good 10 pounds heavy and have a laser attached to it? Like I said the eye naturally stabilizes your view to a degree so that you can easily look and observe through binoculars. It looks steady. But holding a laser on target at long distance is not easy.

So basically I don't like the fact that the view is so disorienting, but I don't really mind difficulty keeping a laser on target. I just wish you could deploy it on a bipod or something like they do in reality.

Are you serious?

I said binoculars. Not an espresso machine with lazors and cupholders. Binoculars, much like the ones that are in the game.

Also if eyes compensate for carrying heavier laser designators etc in real life, then this should be simulated ingame by NOT HAVING SWAY. Jesus.

This whole "lets implement retarded game effects so simulate real life" that have ZERO base in real life amazes me every time.

[-Coulum- 35]

Are you serious?

I said binoculars. Not an espresso machine with lazors and cupholders. Binoculars, much like the ones that are in the game.

Also if eyes compensate for carrying heavier laser designators etc in real life, then this should be simulated ingame by NOT HAVING SWAY. Jesus.

Umm, I am serious... and I never said you were wrong. Having steady vision through a pair of 4x binoculars is easy. What I was trying to convey is that holding a heavy laser designator with 60x magnification and keeping it on a target isn't easy. In arma both binocs and markers have the same sway so while I would be happy to have steady binocs, I am not so thrilled about the laser pointers being handled like they weight nothing and my arms have some sort of auto stabilizing device in them.

And because your eyes compensate, doesn't mean that the laser is going to be steady on target...

I am sorry if I offended you...?

This whole "lets implement retarded game effects so simulate real life" that have ZERO base in real life amazes me every time.

I guess I am an amazing person:)

Laser would be tied to the stencil/binoculer movement. And yes, I doubt it'd be easy to implement, since it would make binos/rangefinders/designators the odd ducks out when it came to weaponry sway. Definitely an idle, hypothetical comment. Still, would be interested to see how it would feel to use in game.

Definitely. Its an interesting concept. For now I am happy with what they've done. Given the lack of resting, and the limited lethality of binoculars I think it is fair enough. But it will make me cringe when I see someone lasing a target while standing up...