Too many destroyed cars in Altis

[mistyronin 1181]

Thought I have been living most of my life in different villages in the Mediterranean coast; and it's true that you can find some destroyed cars outside the villages ( specially in the countryside roads ). And I also now about the crisis and clashes in Altis in 2035, but... is it really need that there are destroyed cars even in the main gov. offices parking in the capital?

Wouldn't be better to leave the map more neutral, to allow more stories for mission makers?

On the other hand, I have to say that it's awesome how real everything feels. The buildings, signals, landscapes could fit perfectly in the places I've lived. In fact it's even a bit scary how detailed and similar is the island to the real Mediterranean villages.

Even some of the radars in the mountains remembers me to the USAF radar in Mallorca's highest peak, Puig Major ( where I had a little incident with one of the US soldiers guarding it ). Photo of the radar

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, there is war you know.

[instagoat 133]

This Island has seen war and economic destruction. There were parts in east germany after the wall came down that looked more run down than Altis. And they didn't have a war... I think the amount of destruction and wreckage is just about right.

[mistyronin 1181]

Well, there is war you know.

I'd like to see, even in the worst times of Irak civil war, if in the gov. offices in the Green Zone, had any destroyed car in the main parking.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I'd like to see, even in the worst times of Irak civil war, if in the gov. offices in the Green Zone, had any destroyed car in the main parking.

I don't know where is the green zone here...

[instagoat 133]

I'd like to see, even in the worst times of Irak civil war, if in the gov. offices in the Green Zone, had any destroyed car in the main parking.

Iraqi's had spare parts and fuel for the vehicles. Without spares and fuel, after a while you can just throw the vehicles into the ditch. Actually, it'd make sense if the Altians would use packing animals, but I don't think we'll see Mules anytime soon :(

[eddieck 10]

I have to agree here: keep the map neutral and let mission makers fill in the blanks.

[maturin 12]

Have you spent much time on islands?

It is incredibly expensive to ship cars to and from such places, so you'll see a lot of Frankenstein monsters and ancient old machines that are kept running with ducktape.

There's no used car market to get rid of the old models, nor is there a proper dump or landfill, so they just hand around.

Altis is pretty agricultural, and farmers dump all their old vehicles on their spare land anyways.

[EvEnLeaSe44 0]

I disagree. I like the amount of objects and destroyed vehicles. It's a war torn nation in the year 2035. Deal.

[froggyluv 2136]

If AI could actually use dynamic (editor) placed vehicles as cover I'd agree. But as they cant, map placed objects and clutter are better than too much empty space.

[jumpinghubert 49]

we need more threads like this one: we need less details on the map because they are under special circumstances not helpful/realistic/whatever...lol

[mistyronin 1181]

Have you spent much time on islands?

It is incredibly expensive to ship cars to and from such places, so you'll see a lot of Frankenstein monsters and ancient old machines that are kept running with ducktape.

When I was a teen I use to spend at least a month a year in different mediterranean islands ( in Spain, Italy and Greece ), and I never had that impression, in fact is relatively cheap to take a ferry with your car/motorcycle there, is even cheaper than a plane ticket ( well, maybe not with Ryanair but... ). And at least in Spain the villagers living there have by law a huge discount to travel to the mainland.

Now that I live in the Baltic is also really cheap to use ferrys for vehicles. In fact for me is cheaper to go with a ferry from Turku to Stockholm than a train ticket from my town to Finlands capital, Helsinki ( which is closer ).

In any case, my point is that if you keep the island neutral, you can always add the car wrecks in the editor to simulate the war zone / crisis. IMO the island should not only be for the main official campaign, but also to develope your own missions and campaigns.

[3instein 10]

In any case, my point is that if you keep the island neutral, you can always add the car wrecks in the editor to simulate the war zone / crisis. IMO the island should not only be for the main official campaign, but also to develope your own missions and campaigns.

If they make the Island "neutral" as you say, what about the vast majority that don't create their own missions, or don't use the editor?

Mick. :)

[vegeta897 13]

What new setting could a mission maker actually convey if there were no destroyed cars? You can't convey a non-war-torn island because the island is still going to be vastly unpopulated, no matter how many civvie AIs you put in. I'm not sure a mission maker can really do much to get away from the fact that the island has been abandoned for the most part. Hence, abandoned vehicles.

And removing details like this just so mission makers can put them in where they want is silly. What about missions that take place in dynamic locations? Does the mission maker have to scour 270km of terrain to add in vehicles?

The best compromise I can see here would take some work by the devs but it would be quite neat: Have island 'flavors' or 'flags' that are island-specific and selectable in the editor. These 'branches' would be stored on every Arma 3 owner's machine, and are simply selected by the mission editor. I'm actually a little surprised that something like this hasn't been implemented yet. Island-specific parameters that change some simple things, to save mission editors tons of work and open up the variety.

[mistyronin 1181]

And removing details like this just so mission makers can put them in where they want is silly. What about missions that take place in dynamic locations? Does the mission maker have to scour 270km of terrain to add in vehicles?

The best compromise I can see here would take some work by the devs but it would be quite neat: Have island 'flavors' or 'flags' that are island-specific and selectable in the editor. These 'branches' would be stored on every Arma 3 owner's machine, and are simply selected by the mission editor. I'm actually a little surprised that something like this hasn't been implemented yet. Island-specific parameters that change some simple things, to save mission editors tons of work and open up the variety.

I haven't seen anywhere that the island is mostly abandoned, theoretically it's a Malta like little country in crisis with some clashes guerrilla vs army.

On the other hand most of the missions focus in one limited zone ( that is the one that has the proper set objects to create certain atmosphere ). And particularly ( I don't know others ), but I would like to create missions that occurred in a time before the big CSAT vs NATO.

But I like the idea of the flags, that would be the perfect option to change the same map for different presets to allow every mission maker prepare a more in deep atmosphere. Without having to create or edit the map and make everyone download a huge file.

[vegeta897 13]

I haven't seen anywhere that the island is mostly abandoned, theoretically it's a Malta like little country in crisis with some clashes guerrilla vs army.

I'm referring to the fact that there are not random pedestrians and vehicle traffic occupying the cities. People are not living inside of the houses.

Mission makers can add some of this in some small scale, but it's not anything close to what you'd see if you were to visit Altis (Limnos) right now in real life. So, we're kind of stuck with the 'abandoned' or 'vacated' setting.

[mistyronin 1181]

I'm referring to the fact that there are not random pedestrians and vehicle traffic occupying the cities. People are not living inside of the houses.

Mission makers can add some of this in some small scale, but it's not anything close to what you'd see if you were to visit Altis (Limnos) right now in real life. So, we're kind of stuck with the 'abandoned' or 'vacated' setting.

Well I try to always simulate to some grade in my missions ( from Ofp to a2 ), some civilian life, but is obvious that in conflict zone when the bang bang start, most of the civ tend to move to other villages while the ones that can't or don't want keep inside their homes ( for example in Afghanistan a desert village means taliban preparing ops against the coalition ).

And for what I have seen, BI is more and more creating the "living world".

Though I've also seen missions taking place in the middle of a fully civilian zone ( look at the patrol mission in A2 baf )

[sqb-sma 66]

Thought I have been living most of my life in different villages in the Mediterranean coast; and it's true that you can find some destroyed cars outside the villages ( specially in the countryside roads ). And I also now about the crisis and clashes in Altis in 2035, but... is it really need that there are destroyed cars even in the main gov. offices parking in the capital?

Wouldn't be better to leave the map more neutral, to allow more stories for mission makers?

On the other hand, I have to say that it's awesome how real everything feels. The buildings, signals, landscapes could fit perfectly in the places I've lived. In fact it's even a bit scary how detailed and similar is the island to the real Mediterranean villages.

Even some of the radars in the mountains remembers me to the USAF radar in Mallorca's highest peak, Puig Major ( where I had a little incident with one of the US soldiers guarding it ). Photo of the radar

Dude, check out the gas prices. In the future we have in Arma 3 the price of petrol has soared, the auto industry has collapsed. Combined with the economic problems of the region and the war it entirely makes sense.

[maturin 12]

When I was a teen I use to spend at least a month a year in different mediterranean islands ( in Spain, Italy and Greece ), and I never had that impression, in fact is relatively cheap to take a ferry with your car/motorcycle there, is even cheaper than a plane ticket ( well, maybe not with Ryanair but... ). And at least in Spain the villagers living there have by law a huge discount to travel to the mainland.

Now that I live in the Baltic is also really cheap to use ferrys for vehicles. In fact for me is cheaper to go with a ferry from Turku to Stockholm than a train ticket from my town to Finlands capital, Helsinki ( which is closer ).

Ah, I forgot about good old fashioned European socialism. Well maybe after the decades of recession that takes place in the ArmA timeline, Greek public services will come to resemble what we have in the U.S.

[liquidpinky 11]

It is set in war time, as well as being after riots, you know, the things where lots of cars get torched.

[Victim9l3 11]

I agree with the main idea of this thread. Wrecked cars in good looking cities is dumb. It would be one thing if they looked like just damaged cars, but these cars are all rusted. Rusted equals time. So it doesn't make sense. Yes there can be war, but as long as people live their they would tow the cars away.

The flaw I see in most maps made by the public and a little bit in bi maps is that map makers design maps with only one particular idea in mind. So many make really stupid F.O.B.s in some odd places or they put too many permanent structures that severely limit mission makers. One has a LHD parked in the dock. That means only blufor control that whole area or map. helicopter landing pads that have H barriers surrounding it so close that you can't make a mistake landing.

Maps need to make sense. Trash and wrecks and FOBs damaged buildings etc.. should all be put there by mission makers. I can't populate civilian cities when half the city is damaged. Yet the people and their cars a perfectly clean. Another thing too, bases or airbases that have stuff in bad places. Like one map has cargo pallets blocking the hangar blocking the aircraft inside and taking a spot where I could park one. That left room for only 2 aircraft because they wanted to stage the base with stuff I won't use. In Altis there is a perfectly clean parking lot at the airport yet it has about 5 rusted vehicles. None of the area around them looked bad, it was perfect. So if I want to use it as a working airport it doesn't make sense.

And one last thing. What if I wanted to create a mission that was before war broke out? Yet the city I want to use has damaged vehicles, trash, and messed up t72. Or I might have a FOB right in the middle of city.

The BEST way to fix this is that BI can make a module that will place those items. Start with a clean island. A mission maker can place a module that will place all those objects in as big of an area as they want. So they can populate one city or whole map. That will also help fps.

So for those who make maps, think about how it will be used. Don't place things that will end up limiting mission makers. Especially ships being put in docks. Leave it up to us. One island has a ship at dock that is a bi unuseable U.S. Looking frigate, when I could put a Russian, useable ship in it's place. And it's the only spot to park ships. And no retarded FOBs.

[GReeves 10]

I totally agree with the above post. Maps like Utes, Chernarus, and Takistan were just fine without all of this silly "flavoring", so I don't see a need for it in this game. What's wrong with having a module like the Ambient Civilian Vehicles module except in a damaged or destroyed version?

[Simas 12]

Just thought about a cool idea.. for Arma 4 editor, please add "content layers": before starting a mission - let us choose map "layers". So for example if I don't want wrecked cars on my mission - I can uncheck wrecked cars layer. If I don't want pre-build military outposts - I can uncheck that too. Basically, this layer concept could be expanded to further customize the map.

[Frankdatank1218 39]

1. The island and the EU was undergoing economic crisis.

2.On top of that a war overcame the area

3.That has been going on for awhile by the time of the game.

4. More cover for firefights and adds to the "collapsed nation-state" feel of Altis.

[maturin 12]

The only thing these cars, tanks and FOBs mean is that there was a war in the recent past. Every map should tell some sort of story, and you shouldn't find it so difficult to work that hint of backstory into your missions.