TPW LOS: AI line of sight system

[fraczek 4]

TPW, great to have your mod back for A3! Yours (or later TPWCAS) with Robalo's I used all the time in A2 SP...

[tpw 2315]

TPW, great to have your mod back for A3! Yours (or later TPWCAS) with Robalo's I used all the time in A2 SP...

Thanks/Děkuji!

[foffy 58]

I'm digging this. I loved LOS and CAS for ArmA II. They, to me, fundamentally changed the AI to be more threatening in closer ranges. And to be fair, this is a line of sight mod, not an AI turning mod. BI's AI has always had hiccups here and there, to remind you it's still a game. :P

[tpw 2315]

I'm digging this. I loved LOS and CAS for ArmA II. They, to me, fundamentally changed the AI to be more threatening in closer ranges. And to be fair, this is a line of sight mod, not an AI turning mod. BI's AI has always had hiccups here and there, to remind you it's still a game. :P

I've actually got a couple of ideas to fix the lazy turning too, so stay tuned.

[gvse 10]

Thanks for the update and the fix. All's good now.

[Guest]

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

TPW LOS: AI line of sight system [bETA] v1.01



Community Base addons A3

===================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

Edited July 21, 2013 by Guest

[dr@gon 118]

Well maybe I'm having a blonde moment but what do I do with the userconfig folder? I have installed mods before in ARMA 3 but does the userconfig folder need to go somewhere?

Sorry if this is obvious.

[froggyluv 2136]

Userconfig just goes in Root Arma3 folder. Merge if theres already one there

[tpw 2315]

TPW LOS v1.02 test: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_LOS_102.zip

Changes:

• Implemented a fast turning function which over-rides the sluggish default AI turn speed
  

This is a test version that is not updated on the 1st post. Please try it out and see if the snappier turn speed when AI has LOS to an enemy is to your taste.

Be aware that the fast turn is not super smooth, relying on sequential setdir commands to the unit.

[dr@gon 118]

Thanks tpw,

I find this mod improves AI combat behaviour considerably. Just having the friendly AI shoot at the Enemy rather then have the friendlies call out "Enemy Spotted" but do nothing other then watch the enemy walk among your formation until they kill you is a huge improvement. I haven't tried PW_LOS_102 yet.

Arma 3 is by far the best of the series so far but the poor AI (understanding it is still only Beta) detracts from the game. AI needs to improve before the main release.

[metalcraze 290]

Rotation seems a bit too fast and a bit too far as AI misses the enemy in CQB a bit when rotating and has to rotate a bit back at normal speed.

Also unfortunately the fix works only when enemy is in AI LOS (well since it's a fix for that duh) however not when AI hears the sound and starts turning to check it which is still vanilla-slow

I use the repro from here to test AI turn speed which shows just that

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3592

Maybe TPWLOS (line of sound) as a part of this module next heh?

[tpw 2315]

Rotation seems a bit too fast and a bit too far as AI misses the enemy in CQB a bit when rotating and has to rotate a bit back at normal speed.

Also unfortunately the fix works only when enemy is in AI LOS (well since it's a fix for that duh) however not when AI hears the sound and starts turning to check it which is still vanilla-slow

I use the repro from here to test AI turn speed which shows just that

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3592

Maybe TPWLOS (line of sound) as a part of this module next heh?

You know, before adding this rotation stuff in I did some real life testing standing in the back yard with a broom and seeing how quickly I could pivot (much to my daughter's amusement): it's actually very fast. Especially over the 120 degrees which is the maximum an AI with LOS to enemy would have to move. On the other hand, lying on the ground, it's pretty slow. So I'll try scale the rotation speed according to stance.

The overshooting seems to be because the AI is rotating to face where you were a second ago. I'll work on this too.

[metalcraze 290]

I've meant the overshooting mostly. However sometimes it does happen that AI faces ~30-40 degrees away but then immediately changes direction to face the enemy without much visible rotating transition. The problem isn't even speed really but has more to do with how abrupt it sometimes looks.

And if it's not too hard you can deal with overshooting this way

The lowest editor skill / aimingSpeed AI would overshoot the most. The maxed out skill AI would be spot on target. Basically the delay between where you were and where AI aims varying depending on the skill. That way it can range from a panicked insurgent who just sprays and prays in CQB (cuz that's how it looks now ironically) to a well trained soldier.

Edited July 21, 2013 by metalcraze

[Grey-Legolas 10]

New quick rotation is great, thank you. If oversooting issue is fixed, than it will be the begining of a whole new splendid era in Arma series ai:yay:

[tpw 2315]

New quick rotation is great, thank you. If oversooting issue is fixed, than it will be the begining of a whole new splendid era in Arma series ai:yay:

Thanks mate. So I've done a bit more experimenting and established what the real problem is: units aim by moving their weapons before they move their bodies. Let's say an enemy gets LOS on you when you are 45 degrees to his left. Via FSM, he immediately swings his weapon towards you (slowly!), but then TPW LOS kicks in and rapidly rotates him 45 degrees. So he ends up facing you, but his weapon is pointing further left than his body. The FSM kicks in again to bring the weapon to bear. The larger the initial angle, the worse the overshoot.

I think I will be able to roughly compensate by using aimpos, but I doubt I'll ever get pinpoint turning/aiming accuracy.

Edited July 22, 2013 by tpw

[dr@gon 118]

I replayed I mission I made for myself using the TRW LOS mod and what a difference!

The Special Forces Team actually behaved in a way that made the mission enjoyable.

Now if we could only find a way to stop the friendly AI from standing up in a fire fight and running towards the enemy to their death, stop walking in front of you while you are shooting, walk 20 meters in the wrong direction towards the enemy when you try to position them, and get stuck in position with their side arms out unable to move we'd have a true immersive experience.

Ah but that is for another mod. sorry for the rant.:p

[foffy 58]

I replayed I mission I made for myself using the TRW LOS mod and what a difference!

The Special Forces Team actually behaved in a way that made the mission enjoyable.

Now if we could only find a way to stop the friendly AI from standing up in a fire fight and running towards the enemy to their death, stop walking in front of you while you are shooting, walk 20 meters in the wrong direction towards the enemy when you try to position them, and get stuck in position with their side arms out unable to move we'd have a true immersive experience.

Ah but that is for another mod. sorry for the rant.:p

Sounds like your complaints go beyond ArmA III. Aren't all of those problems that existed in ArmA II? :P

[tpw 2315]

A2 and A3 both share many of the same shortcomings, as well as a few unique to each. I am encouraged that there seems to be a lot of work being done though http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159710-Development-Branch-AI-Discussion

It's my dream that mods like TPW LOS will become irrelevant very soon!

Anyway, back to reality, I think I have sorted out the overshooting issues with fast turning, and will post an update shortly.

[Tyl3r99 41]

good lad :) keep up the good work!!

[dr@gon 118]

Sounds like your complaints go beyond ArmA III. Aren't all of those problems that existed in ArmA II? :P

Yes indeed those problems I mentioned existed in Arma 2 but I had hoped that the next version of the game would improve the AI instead in many ways I think its worse. Granted this is Beta but I'm not expecting huge improvements before the game launch. For example try and move a squad up a hill in Wedge Formation and watch what happens, the AI criss-crosses back and forth seemingly wandering randomly, they can't stay in formation no matter how hard you try.

[tpw 2315]

TPW LOS v1.02 test 2: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_LOS_102.zip

Changes:

• Rapid turn is only initiated if enemy is > 15 degrees left/right of unit.
  
• Rapid turn is now stance specific. Standing > crouch > prone
  
• Units do not make full turn towards target, but do it in stages. Looks more realistic and prevents overshooting the target
  
• Units stop moving to shoot
  

Please test this out and let me know if it improves things.

I've done pretty extensive testing and while the LOS stuff works as advertised, it certainly won't override the AI if they want to be somewhere else. This can lead to visual artifacts too.

[SavageCDN 231]

It's my dream that mods like TPW LOS will become irrelevant very soon!

That would be great (integrated solution) but don't hold your breath :)

Thanks for this release.

[Grey-Legolas 10]

Thanks for an update, ai movement looks much better now:)

But it seems to me that in pauses between rapid turns ai manage to use arma`s vanila slow aiming - it doesnt take too much time (mostly less than a 0,75 sec in a series of 2 turns) but still a bit unpleasant cause makes aiming process longer - is it possible to fix it?

Didnt have enough time to test this version in different situations though, maybe in real firefight - not during testing on the empty airport field - ai bevavior will differ.

Thanks again for your work:)

Edited July 25, 2013 by Grey-Legolas

[tpw 2315]

Thanks for an update, ai movement looks much better now:)

But it seems to me that in pauses between rapid turns ai manage to use arma`s vanila slow aiming - it doesnt take too much time (mostly less than a 0,75 sec in a series of 2 turns) but still a bit unpleasant cause makes aiming process longer - is it possible to fix it?

Didnt have enough time to test this version in different situations though, maybe in real firefight - not during testing on the empty airport field - ai bevavior will differ.

Thanks again for your work:)

Thanks mate. To be honest I'm still not that happy with the implementation of fast turning, which is why it remains as a test release while I try out (largely unsuccessfully) ways to keep the AI focussed on the target they have LOS to, rather than running off to other waypoints etc. You are absolutely correct that the vanilla turning and the fast turning confilict with each other. As I stated early on, it's very hard to override the FSM so the units will tend to do what they want the moment the fast turn is finished. Because the LOS thing runs in a 0.5sec loop, you can get a 1/2 sec zigzag going on as the unit switches between the LOS movement and default.

[tpw 2315]

TPW LOS 1.02 test 3: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_LOS_102.zip

Changes:

• Stance dependent turning speed.
  
• Unit with LOS to enemy will no longer "zigzag" between targets and waypoints.
  
• Misc improvements to code.
  

This update fixes nearly all the things I was pissed off about with the previous test version. A unit with LOS to an enemy will stop, rapidly turn (speed is stance dependent) and fire upon that enemy. It will ignore other targets and will not keep trying to rotate or move towards other targets or waypoints for 5 seconds after getting LOS.

Any test feedback is welcome.

Edited August 3, 2013 by tpw