Shockingly bad AI

[old_painless 182]

I am somewhat pleased with how the AI behaves on foot, as infantry.

But they become complete retards when put on a quadbike.

This can't be right, why does he not get off, drive away, do SOMETHING !?

(30 seconds of OPFOR misery)

As for replicating, I put myself (grenadier) down on the tarmac, together with this OPFOR quadbiker. We are facing each other at initialization. The AI is on default behaviour.

I'll put up a feedback tracker item during the weekend with this "mission".

But for everything holy: BI, do NOT showcase AI on quadbikes during E3 :)

Edited June 9, 2013 by Old_Painless
Youtube for convenience

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's not really something new. When AI is ungrouped and alone as driver of an unarmed vehicle, nothing happens.

[old_painless 182]

Right, well it seems BI is looking at "balancing" at the moment, so the AI lid may be off. They should consider how AI use vehicles, too

[chortles 263]

Well, the "balancing" is with regards to AI... glad that you said right in the OP that you'll be making a Feedback Tracker ticket though!

[St. Jimmy 272]

Can't understand why and how this should be changed? You can't make him hop out and shoot or drive over you because that would cause many issues. I believe "fixing" this so the AI tries to drive away from you also would cause some issues also.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Can't understand why and how this should be changed? You can't make him hop out and shoot or drive over you because that would cause many issues. I believe "fixing" this so the AI tries to drive away from you also would cause some issues also.

True. You must board a truck with your team to move to another place, and the driver gets out and just runs away because he's frightened ? That would break numerous missions.

[SaOk 112]

You can add simple small loop to detect if the driver/cargo knows about player, is in combat more or/and he or his vehicle have got damage. I have been using that in my missions.

e.g.

GetOutScript.sqf

private ["_d"];
_d = _this select 0;
waitUntil {sleep 2; _d knowsabout player > 1 || behaviour _d == "COMBAT" || damage (vehicle _d) > 0.3 || isNull _d || !(alive _d)};
{unassignvehicle _x; [_x] ordergetin false;} foreach units group _d;

Then in init box for that quadbiker:

_nul = [driver (vehicle this)] execVM "GetOutScript.sqf";

Edited June 8, 2013 by SaOk

[old_painless 182]

True. You must board a truck with your team to move to another place, and the driver gets out and just runs away because he's frightened ? That would break numerous missions.

He is not frightened, he is under direct fire and should act accordingly. Not necessarily getting out, perhaps drive away or drive faster.

Missions may have worked around that strange behaviour, but I still view it as an AI shortcoming in how they perceive danger. I mean, he chooses the "do nothing" strategy.

Or he may be simply deaf and blind, since I can walk straight up to him and he just sits there.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Old_Painless

[metalcraze 290]

True. You must board a truck with your team to move to another place, and the driver gets out and just runs away because he's frightened ? That would break numerous missions.

Except when coming under fire the correct behavior is to hit the gas pedal and drive away, not get out and run away. In this case it will break nothing. It's what human players that are driving do after all.

[chrisb 196]

The modded ai I am testing at the moment will, when they spot you whilst their driving towards you down the runway, alter their course quite some way short of you, drive off in another direction to plan an alternate route to their waypoint. If you happened to be standing at their waypoint they drive off and wait.. They do the same in A2..

Should all be standard of course, but it won’t be.. So we’re going to need modded ai for A3, thats more or less guaranteed..;)

[old_painless 182]

Hm, he did not have any waypoints. He should have some basic, sound reaction to danger regardless (like my direct fire), but I am going to see if waypoints make a difference.

[purepassion 22]

Waypoints and behavior usually make all the difference ;)

Though in the case with a Quad, it seems like the AI really doesn't know what to do and neither drives away nor does anything when a enemy player is between them and a guard waypoint with combat and engage at will bevahior. It would be best if the soldier could disembark and engage.

On a sideonote, the Quad behaves really nice now and is a lot of fun to drive!

[EDcase 87]

What about the "allowfleeing" parameter. If that is set low then they should jump off/out of a vehicle and possibly engage or flee.

[chrisb 196]

Basic test, low quality video, sorry..

Info on screen..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOhR9EPQr1E

Thats what should happen..;) Does in A2, will in A3 shortly..

Edited June 8, 2013 by ChrisB

[johncage 30]

no, that's horrible. why doesn't he get off his bike and engage you?

[katipo66 94]

You can add simple small loop to detect if the driver/cargo knows about player, is in combat more or/and he or his vehicle have got damage. I have been using that in my missions.

e.g.

GetOutScript.sqf

private ["_d"];
_d = _this select 0;
waitUntil {sleep 2; _d knowsabout player > 1 || behaviour _d == "COMBAT" || damage (vehicle _d) > 0.3 || isNil _d || !(alive _d)};
{unassignvehicle _x; [_x] ordergetin false;} foreach units group _d;

Then in init box for that quadbiker:

_nul = [driver (vehicle this)] execVM "GetOutScript.sqf";

Cool script, thanks

[SaOk 112]

Nope, I noticed small typo in the waituntil - it should be isNull, not isNil.

[chrisb 196]

why doesn't he get off his bike and engage you?

Its not what I would want him to do.

Different for foot units, provided there are a number of them and judge the situation first before jumping in, also units in cargo, en-route etc, yes perhaps, again after some thought.

But one unit on a quad, on his own, when he has a fast off-road vehicle, easy to get clear and take alternate route, so that he can complete his order/wp. Instead jumps off his quad on first sighting of the enemy and turns into Rambo.

Not the way I play the game really, or indeed want the ai to play it..;)

[Minoza 11]

^^That. It is simply something you do not want AI to do, it would break a lot of stuff. If he has orders to get somewhere, you expect him to make that a priority, stay alive and get there.

[metalcraze 290]

You should never get out from the vehicle when you see an enemy. You should drive away until you are more or less safe and then seek combat.

When you are driving and being shot at - do you really think it's a good idea to get out of a vehicle instead of hitting a gas pedal and not releasing it until shots stop coming?

[Mirudes 1]

That's not really something new. When AI is ungrouped and alone as driver of an unarmed vehicle, nothing happens.

True. You must board a truck with your team to move to another place, and the driver gets out and just runs away because he's frightened ? That would break numerous missions.

Not the way I play the game really, or indeed want the ai to play it..;)

That's right, the artificial enemy in ArmA3 is supposed to be a specialist (not a insurgent, rebell or so) and is educated to handle its equipment. So when it carries a rifle and can steer a vehicle, it is supposed to act ingame like you and me.

But sometimes the AI is acting so unnatural stupid that it can destroy the gameplay. A scene from ArmA2: The AI-squad has already entered a unarmed vehicle and gets under fire. Not a single soldier jumps out and returns fire.

I agree that the driver should drive zigzag, should use the landscape as a cover, and should plan an alternative route, dependent on how strong the attacker was.

[chrisb 196]

That's right, the artificial enemy in ArmA3 is supposed to be a specialist (not a insurgent, rebell or so) and is educated to handle its equipment. So when it carries a rifle and can steer a vehicle, it is supposed to act ingame like you and me.

But sometimes the AI is acting so unnatural stupid that it can destroy the gameplay. A scene from ArmA2: The AI-squad has already entered a unarmed vehicle and gets under fire. Not a single soldier jumps out and returns fire.

I agree that the driver should drive zigzag, should use the landscape as a cover, and should plan an alternative route, dependent on how strong the attacker was.

We know in vanilla the ai is not good. But that has more or less always been the case. They have gotten better over time, but you need ai mod/addons to make the difference, for instance, your example (scene from A2) would not happen in my modded game, if there were enough of them in a vehicle and they thought they could engage with a more or less certain chance of winning the engagement, they would drop off units to engage, they do the same in vanilla in A2, but you need certain mods to add more intelligence to ai, for them to make that decision and others, GL4/Zeus/SLX/TPW Sup etc.

The example I put up is one unit, it would look completely different if it were a truck full of troops en-route. Same could be said for any vehicle with any amount of ai, they need to think before getting involved. A good pbo: 'SLX_noautoengage', when mixed with others, it really works well, ai decide if they should engage or avoid, simple as that. Engage to win and move on, or avoid if they think the outcome could be the opposite.. This is if they have a WP to go to, obviously different for garrisoned units etc.

So yes I understand your frustration at the fact A3 ai is not like that, but at this stage in the games production, its not going to be expected. It won't be great when released proper, you will find that you need to use mod/addons to get it to where you want it, after say a few hundred hours testing..:butbut:

I know it shouldn't be like that, but thats the way it will be..:p

Its not that bad really, if BIS said later, "we have a fix here, that will make the ai better, just download it", then you would, there's no more work in downloading a mod. I know we shouldn't have to do it, but really the game is what you make of it and its a fact, your going to need ai mods.

Its never going to be perfect in every way, unfortunately..:)

[metalcraze 290]

The AI-squad has already entered a unarmed vehicle and gets under fire. Not a single soldier jumps out and returns fire.

That's an entirely correct behavior. What's incorrect is that they don't drive away at full speed.

Why would you jump out of a vehicle if you are under fire? You are already under fire, by the time you will be able to spot an enemy and return fire you'll already be dead. You can't run just as fast on foot as you would by pushing gas pedal. It's called common sense.

[Sneakson 1]

That's an entirely correct behavior. What's incorrect is that they don't drive away at full speed.

Why would you jump out of a vehicle if you are under fire? You are already under fire, by the time you will be able to spot an enemy and return fire you'll already be dead. You can't run just as fast on foot as you would by pushing gas pedal. It's called common sense.

If you're in a quadbike and get shot at naturally you get out, drop down behind it for cover and try to return fire -- at least if you're in an open field.

Putting the pedal to the metal won't not make you a sitting duck, it will just make you a driving duck. Unless you've got cover that you can drive to nearby you should make your own cover and get behind it quick.

Right now AI is indeed shockingly bad but I would wait until beta before I start making a big deal about it, really.

[Masharra 10]

If you're in a quadbike and get shot at naturally you get out, drop down behind it for cover and try to return fire -- at least if you're in an open field.

Putting the pedal to the metal won't not make you a sitting duck, it will just make you a driving duck. Unless you've got cover that you can drive to nearby you should make your own cover and get behind it quick.

Right now AI is indeed shockingly bad but I would wait until beta before I start making a big deal about it, really.

Good sir you are not getting the whole picture. Tis no movie.

First you have to decelerate to a safe speed, preferably stop. = easier target = shot

Assuming you make it.

You are now sitting behind a piss poor and able to be easily flanked object. That they can now easily disable since you have stopped moving.

On a fast moving, evasive acting quad 2 things can drop you. A lucky shot and volume of fire.

I would agree if you were to say urban environment as you can turn a corner or pull into an alleyway to break contact to safely disembark, but you said in an open field.

You are SOL in both, but stopping and making yourself a easier target is SuperSOL and tactically unsound. "the only ground that is ever 'owned' by an infantry unit is the ground they are currently on, and even that can be contested."

Why unsound? "you should make your own cover and get behind it quick." You are driving through an open field, you hear the sonic cracks of bullets fling past your head. You stop and you make your own cover and get behind it. Pray tell how do "you" where behind is? In an open field 360 is behind.

http://frank.redpin.com/~urbex/convoy_handbook_2.pdf Read up on it.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Masharra