OVER POWERED AI ! Please fix this for final game ruins coop

[Azzur33 1]

should only remember your last position and not where you go to hide without them see you.

Bis but what he does for this bug. take note?

makes me never want to play :(

Of course BIS will try to get rid of AI bugs.

But they have to find out what the bug is and is it a bug, and then find out how to remove the bug, or make adjustments to fix things.

Almost everything in Arma 3 makes me want to play it. But the hide-and-seek -abilities of the AI at the moment bothers me, although it doesn't exactly matter in the kind of missions I usually make/play.

[AusSpook 10]

Of course BIS will try to get rid of AI bugs.

But they have to find out what the bug is and is it a bug, and then find out how to remove the bug, or make adjustments to fix things.

Or just edge-cases that weren't thought of (or fully developed) yet? :confused:

...Again, "psychic powers" at times, and sometimes not. I'm doing something differently every time I try for sure, but don't know what, and why results differ so much.

May be "random" routines are executed so that you can't be too sure how the AI are going to react? Would give that element of surprise, don't you think?

On a side note: There does seem to be a distinct lack of feedback from the devs regarding this. Maybe they could give us their thoughts on what we're "apparently" seeing perhaps?

Edited May 26, 2013 by AusSpook
Quote info

[jw custom 56]

Did some testing aswell:

Used a group of 4 opfor soldiers.

If i shoot one of them which is NOT the team leader the group never searches for me.

If i shoot the team leader the new team leader will send his two soldiers after me while he himself stay back. Two soldiers searching for always know my location, only reason for them not getting to would because of buildings with no LOS through windows/doors and places with many objects placed close to eachother.

One time on Stratis Air Base they stopped behind the wall where i was hiding and they tried to go through on the exact place i was hiding.

There's no doubt about this problem and it needs to be fixed!

[telkwa 0]

Did some testing aswell:

Used a group of 4 opfor soldiers.

If i shoot one of them which is NOT the team leader the group never searches for me.

If i shoot the team leader the new team leader will send his two soldiers after me while he himself stay back. Two soldiers searching for always know my location, only reason for them not getting to would because of buildings with no LOS through windows/doors and places with many objects placed close to eachother.

One time on Stratis Air Base they stopped behind the wall where i was hiding and they tried to go through on the exact place i was hiding.

There's no doubt about this problem and it needs to be fixed!

I have killed the team leader and not the team leader at the outset and have still been tracked through many walls buildings and hills. As long as 1 AI stays behind and gets promoted to leader it doesn't matter who you kill initially. Even if you do something that doesn't invoke the bug it doesn't mean that it won't be invoked another time. I have noticed some randomness myself. I'm hesitant to say this or that will definitively cause the bug because after multiple tests it proves me wrong.

All I know is it's easy to reproduce it as long as there are at least 3 AI in a formation and you kill 1. If the formation has more than 3 you have to at least have 2 alive before you run away.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Telkwa

[jw custom 56]

I have killed the team leader and not the team leader at the outset and have still been tracked through many walls buildings and hills. As long as 1 AI stays behind and gets promoted to leader it doesn't matter who you kill initially.

In all my tests(only tested with a 4 man group) i only shot 1 soldier and if that was not the initial team leader then the group would not go look for me. I'll do more test later.

[Azzur33 1]

In almost all of my tests I didn't shoot the team leader, but I noticed that sometimes they did not come after me, like they didn't know where the shot came from. In some cases they just stayed low ready to shoot at where the shot came, like "thinking" I was still there, ready to fire, and not gone away running.

But normally team leader stayed back, and others came searching, finding and killing me.

Well, if I shot the first guy who found me, the other one ran away. Might be differend with a bigger group, though.

[jw custom 56]

In almost all of my tests I didn't shoot the team leader

You sure you didn't shoot the team leader? How many units where in the group?

When i shot the team leader then the new assigned team leader would stay behind, that was with a 4 man group.

Some weird results we get here, but something is surely broken!

[Azzur33 1]

You sure you didn't shoot the team leader? How many units where in the group?

100% sure. I did shoot the leader couple of times just to test what will happen. The new leader just took his place and stayed behind. And 4 men fire team.

I wonder if the rank or skill level of the leader (or the others) makes a difference. I have only tested with the "standard" group of 4 from the group menu.

[telkwa 0]

OMG, here's a cheater AI if I ever saw one. In typical fashion they knew where I was without seeing me but to add insult to injury they killed me through the floor. The AI is so smart they know how to use a collision exploit. :mad: Thankfully I had Fraps on record. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. I was in TroopMon map view looking at their movements then noticed the AI was either in the building or under it so I went back to 3RD person view and he crawled under the building came to a kneel which popped him above the floor then took a shot at me. Then he turned around tried it again and killed me. What the hell. That's crazy. BIS needs to tell these bots that is cheating. lol

1. How did it know I was in the building?

2. How did it know precisely where I was prone in the building?

3. How did it know to crawl under the building?

4. How did it know to go from prone to kneel in order to shoot me while under the building?

Due to the bug of knowing position is one thing but why didn't it use the door?

They truly are OP.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Telkwa

[2nd ranger 282]

My test: Standing on a hill (same hill as in metalcraze's video), shoot down at an Iranian fireteam in the valley below, killing one of them. Then I run over the hill behind me so I'm out of their view, and teleport myself to a location on the opposite hill, which is now behind the OPFOR. Then I switch to an OPFOR unit in the team to see how it plays out.

The order to engage the threat is issued and at least one of them heads in that direction, while the team leader himself heads in the opposite direction toward my new location, where I teleported myself, and where they obviously have no business searching as it was the complete opposite side of the valley to where they were first engaged from. While the TL is moving toward my location, he keeps stopping and turning to look in the direction of the red target marker where I fired from, but he continues to head away from that and in the general direction of my new location.

In this situation, it seems like the AI only has a general idea where I am, as if they have been issued a rough waypoint on my location with an approximate radius of a few hundred meters. They do not head straight to me, but rather search around until they find me. If they don't find me within a few minutes then the order to attack my original location is re-issued and they all start heading back there.

[jw custom 56]

My test: Standing on a hill (same hill as in metalcraze's video), shoot down at an Iranian fireteam in the valley below, killing one of them. Then I run over the hill behind me so I'm out of their view, and teleport myself to a location on the opposite hill, which is now behind the OPFOR. Then I switch to an OPFOR unit in the team to see how it plays out.

The order to engage the threat is issued and at least one of them heads in that direction, while the team leader himself heads in the opposite direction toward my new location, where I teleported myself, and where they obviously have no business searching as it was the complete opposite side of the valley to where they were first engaged from. While the TL is moving toward my location, he keeps stopping and turning to look in the direction of the red target marker where I fired from, but he continues to head away from that and in the general direction of my new location.

In this situation, it seems like the AI only has a general idea where I am, as if they have been issued a rough waypoint on my location with an approximate radius of a few hundred meters. They do not head straight to me, but rather search around until they find me. If they don't find me within a few minutes then the order to attack my original location is re-issued and they all start heading back there.

When i shoot the team leader of a 4 man group and run over the hill (same hill as in metalcraze's video) it doesn't matter if i go left or right and hide they always find me.

I tried hiding in a house and they more or less went directly towards it and a bit up on the hill behind so they could shoot me through the window. There was absolutely no LOS when i went to that house.

Here's image from some testing on Stratis Air Base, they knew my position and tried to walk through the wall :p

http://i.imgur.com/R2KEGfB.jpg

[telkwa 0]

"I tried hiding in a house and they more or less went directly towards it and a bit up on the hill behind so they could shoot me through the window."

Crafty cheaters aren't they.

[2nd ranger 282]

When i shoot the team leader of a 4 man group and run over the hill (same hill as in metalcraze's video) it doesn't matter if i go left or right and hide they always find me.

I was originally going to specify that they did it when I killed the team leader, but in subsequent tests I was able to reproduce this behaviour by shooting any member of the team.

[telkwa 0]

I just tried it with a Teleport script. Killed one then Teleported far behind them prone next to crates. Sure enough they barely moved toward where I fired from and where they saw me and instead 4 headed to my new position, with 2 killing me. I even went again but teleported twice after it was obvious they were closing in on me. It took a while but 2 changed course and headed to my second teleportation. :(

Edited May 26, 2013 by Telkwa

[Azzur33 1]

The usual pattern in my 4-against-1 tests seems to be:

2 AI starts searching, at first they are quite randomly checking the area, are separated more, and looks like they lost me.

Then AI1 stops, looks around for a while, then AI2 starts running closer to AI1, and when they "meet", they seem to know exactly my position.

At that "psychic" moment, something goes wrong.

Almost like instead of "You lost him, get back!", they receive "You found him, get him!" from the leader, and move quickly to kill me.

And the LOS thing .. at Kamino, I hide at the big storage house (?) leaving door open and positioning in a way I could be seen and killed from just one direction. When 2 AI was heading to the only position they could get me (how did they know..), I moved a bit behind a corner, and immediately they were called back.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Azzur33

[roguetrooper 2]

I was lying as a sniper in a forest being able to see an enemy group near the beach (about 450m distance). I shot one of that group and three seconds later I was killed by the remaining ones. (Editor testing environment - so 100% I haven't been discovered before).

[Azzur33 1]

My final test with teleport script.

Kamino again, one shot kill, hiding behind a building, 2 AI running east towards me.

Teleporting west, behind a hill, prone, 2 AI running back west towards me.

Teleporting back east, behind a hill where the lighthouse is, well covered, 2 AI running east again.

Teleporting far far south, spectating AI running behind the hill with the lighthouse, searching there, go swimming a little, and being called back.

Now ... back to the normal scenarios, hoping that this "phenomena" will be fixed ...soonish.

It will not affect my gameplay, I play differend kind of missions, but I'd hate to know it is still there... because Arma 3 looks and feels SOO promising otherwise.

[aviatormoser 6]

The AI in this game is a godsend. I feel like I can die at any moment, and I take absolute care to keep myself alive. It's immersive.

[Wolfstriked 11]

^I agree.I usually get killed by doing stupid rambo style missions of which I can't seem to break away from sadly.But I do get the annoying AI behavior once in awhile of me and enemy spotting each other while both standing and while I am fighting the sway the enemy one shot shoots me in the eye.Lately the sway has been causing me to wonder if sway/breathing is overdone.....I watch alot of war films and people do shoot while standing.Sway seems too severe to me while crouching and standing and I feel that toning it down would work better.The recoil being higher is enough of a detriment already to the two upper stances IMO.

That said I would love to see more pronounced differences of the weapons in the game.Keep the sway we have now and remove the breath ability for the new mega sniper cannons recently implemented.This would make them annoying to use unless prone which is how they are in real life.Another thing that can be done to make them worse in combat unless prone is to make the weapon animation when moving slightly more erratic.Carbines should get the reverse treatment of this idea by being the most stable in terms of sway(they are less accurate so it kinda evens out)and when moving get slightly less animation induced sway.....IMO.;)

[TSAndrey 1]

The AI in this game is a godsend. I feel like I can die at any moment, and I take absolute care to keep myself alive. It's immersive.

What!? It's not immersive to be spotted 300m away on a hill, when it's night. That's unreal and insane. It's also insane that AI almost never misses

[Maio 293]

What!? It's not immersive to be spotted 300m away on a hill, when it's night. That's unreal and insane. It's also insane that AI almost never misses

Not true. I was testing a mission with the guys in my group and we had an engagement near the "Old Outpost". The A.I. was 200m+ from us in the woods and we traded shots for about 5 mins. We had shots hitting the white concrete fence which we used as cover, the ground 1 m in front of us, the objects that were near us, etc. Not saying that they always behave like this, I'm just saying that the "X-ray sniper" is still not a definitive trait of the A.I. despite some claims.

[instagoat 133]

Not true. I was testing a mission with the guys in my group and we had an engagement near the "Old Outpost". The A.I. was 200m+ from us in the woods and we traded shots for about 5 mins. We had shots hitting the white concrete fence which we used as cover, the ground 1 m in front of us, the objects that were near us, etc. Not saying that they always behave like this, I'm just saying that the "X-ray sniper" is still not a definitive trait of the A.I. despite some claims.

Problem is consistency. I´ve also had firefights that lasted, but it is very hit and miss.

AI spotting you immediately after firing only one shot (which is -very- hard to locate from sound alone), and then killing you with their first happens way too often, and I´ve had it happen to me even on the lower difficulty settings. In other occasions they can´t hit anything: I´ve had enemy riflemen in CQB empty a whole magazine on me and everything went right over the top of my head.

I think the problem isn´t really that the AI is overpowered, the problem is still the configuration. Another thing I have noticed is that the AI do not use handgrenades at all right now. We will probably see continuing improvement where it can be improved.

At least I hope the one shot across 600 meters machinegunners firing standing up will disappear.

[Azzur33 1]

At least I hope the one shot across 600 meters machinegunners firing standing up will disappear.

Yeah ... the machinegunners ...

At the moment I can't hit anything with a machine gun, but enemy machinegunners are extra mean and lethal.

They do have scopes, so the first shot Is the most accurate one. So ..it might be realistic.

But sometimes it seems that AI is less affected by the recoil than me. They use full auto and bursts in closer combat, while full auto is almost useless even when the enemy stands 5 meters in front of me. Maybe I have to practise more...

Edited May 28, 2013 by Azzur33

[Jex 1]

Had no problem with the A.I during large scale battles 35+

Some crack shots from time to time but nothing to serious.

All it takes is one crack shot to ruin your day and if that's down to a percentage chance of just being unlucky I'd rather they remove it. In Falcon 4 you could model in a failed engine start - it's realistic but does nothing for the game. Yes there are crack shots out there but all it means in real terms is that you start all over again. Before the realism nerds get in on this and say "well it can happen in rl!" yeah well then once you're dead go uninstall the game.

---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 ----------

OMG, here's a cheater AI if I ever saw one. In typical fashion they knew where I was without seeing me but to add insult to injury they killed me through the floor. The AI is so smart they know how to use a collision exploit. :mad: Thankfully I had Fraps on record. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. I was in TroopMon map view looking at their movements then noticed the AI was either in the building or under it so I went back to 3RD person view and he crawled under the building came to a kneel which popped him above the floor then took a shot at me. Then he turned around tried it again and killed me. What the hell. That's crazy. BIS needs to tell these bots that is cheating. lol

1. How did it know I was in the building?

2. How did it know precisely where I was prone in the building?

3. How did it know to crawl under the building?

4. How did it know to go from prone to kneel in order to shoot me while under the building?

Due to the bug of knowing position is one thing but why didn't it use the door?

They truly are OP.

You were probably glitching through the floor.

[telkwa 0]

Maybe you should watch the video :). 1:20-1:24 is a clear view of outside below my position, there is not one pixel of me going through the floor.