Tips on flying a helicopter?

[Sneakson 1]

I wanna know how to make good "gun runs."

Hard to stabilize not to mention seeing anyone unless you do a scout fly-by before returning or know exactly where your targets are.

I think I've mastered basic flying though. Can fly superlow. Can't do that amazing ARMA2 emergency landing bullshit though but Stratis is so hilly I doubt it'd work.

I made a video if you're interested highlighting some basic landings and general how to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXIfg40kado

http://www.twitch.tv/kingscuba/b/411449278

Gonna watch that. Gotta be more than basics in 50 mins.

[nodunit 397]

not to mention seeing anyone unless you do a scout fly-by before returning or know exactly where your targets are.

Sounds realistic to me, otherwise they wouldn't send recon aircraft prior to an assault, be glad you have the radar that shows all units..you could be in a case wherein you have no radar and must operate fully on memory or at best have a radar a display that tracks vehicles like the real things.

Only problem is that the possible scouts are NOT scouts...the 9 series are non digital capable and the kasatka despite having a camera doesn't have any onboard display.

Edited June 16, 2013 by NodUnit

[chortles 263]

Mind you, as far as "digital capable", here's the RAH-66 Comanche interior view from the gunner's seat in Arma 3; source is this album.

[nimrod123 11]

I wanna know how to make good "gun runs."

Hard to stabilize not to mention seeing anyone unless you do a scout fly-by before returning or know exactly where your targets are.

I think I've mastered basic flying though. Can fly superlow. Can't do that amazing ARMA2 emergency landing bullshit though but Stratis is so hilly I doubt it'd work.

Gonna watch that. Gotta be more than basics in 50 mins.

3 things

decide on what your going to fly with and stick with it (perosnally i settled on M&K) this includes setting up your keybinds

learn to fly, learn what happens when you pull up hard etc. basicly learn how the Heli acts, and how to overcome the negatives (such as rolling brfore pulling back hard, so you don't poo up)

create simple situations in the editor and just keep redoing them, so maybe start with careless AI, so it dosn't respond, or empty cars for ground targets.

some pointers for gun runs,

if you think you are far enoguh out to do a turn back to target, your probally not. more likely your going to have enough time to see the target before you go wizzing past completly out of line

line up a long way out, use the GPS to figure out a decent stright run in

use roll, not rudder to correct aim, rudder requires you to be slow enough that you die

[old_painless 182]

My runs are way too fast. I would really like to learn to shoot from at a distance at low speed, but my low speed means that my pitch is wrong so that the gun aim does not line up

[marcai 1]

My runs are way too fast. I would really like to learn to shoot from at a distance at low speed, but my low speed means that my pitch is wrong so that the gun aim does not line up

Combined with the instability of the Little Bird (Fire for 3 seconds or more and your shots will be miles over the head of what you originally aimed at) and the fact that slowing down even the slightest means getting shot from the cockpit makes the use of the minigun over the missiles pretty useless at the minute. I can fire at dense clusters of guys for 10 seconds or more and only get one kill. In my opinion, it would be solved by adding a -very- slight splash damage effect to the bullets or an increase of RPM for the miniguns.

[nodunit 397]

Mind you, as far as "digital capable", here's the RAH-66 Comanche interior view from the gunner's seat in Arma 3; source is this album.

Which while granted it was originally designed to fufill the role of a better scout aircraft, is likely to be instead the attack helicopter for A3.

But overall helicopters REALLY need some tweaking the acceleration department..they go from 0 to 100 far too quickly by the mere tip of the nose.

Edited June 16, 2013 by NodUnit

[nimrod123 11]

Combined with the instability of the Little Bird (Fire for 3 seconds or more and your shots will be miles over the head of what you originally aimed at) and the fact that slowing down even the slightest means getting shot from the cockpit makes the use of the minigun over the missiles pretty useless at the minute. I can fire at dense clusters of guys for 10 seconds or more and only get one kill. In my opinion, it would be solved by adding a -very- slight splash damage effect to the bullets or an increase of RPM for the miniguns.

the guns really should be firing at 4000rpm, espically with the ammo load

Which while granted it was originally designed to fufill the role of a better scout aircraft, is likely to be instead the attack helicopter for A3.

But overall helicopters REALLY need some tweaking the acceleration department..they go from 0 to 100 far too quickly by the mere tip of the nose.

a mere tip of the nose is all thats needed

for all those saying small helis arn't that agile

thats heli mustering 10 m off the deck, i really want on of those R series robinson helis in the armed version :D

[Anachoretes 10]

Good reference.

[nodunit 397]

It's not the agility that concerns me, it's drag, or the lack thereof. The fact that you can barely angle the nose down, release controls and the aircraft will be at max speed in about 2-3 seconds, not even having to use your weight to assist with thrust.

For example, in this video

at 0:35 you can see the aircraft in a nose dive running circles, if you were to do that in Arma 3 then the circles would be MUCH wider because you would gain speed far too fast.

Also again at 1:02 you can see the aircraft pitch down a great deal but the speed it gains is nominal, drag acting against it and thus taking 5 seconds to get a relative quick speed.

Edited June 18, 2013 by NodUnit

[Anachoretes 10]

For smooth speed you need to try analog coaxial controller i think.

[Ezcoo 47]

What's the purpose of those curves? Some WIP stuff or just graphics? I would love to see an option to select one of those curves, preferrably the first one.

[Cykyrios 10]

Actually, to better pilot a helicopter, you should choose the linear curve, along with zero deadzone (though to each his own).

This allows you to have better control, especially during a hover, than the first curve, which will often cause you to over-correct your attitude and lose control over your hover.

[gliptal 25]

I have an X52 and the problem is that it is an HOTAS to fly jets with, not helicopters: the main issue being the throttle has two high drag position near maximum and minimum power (they're there to give feedback on afterburner and idle positions in jets)... Luckily enough, I found that changing that number to the correct value at the left of the slider in the options places 100 and -100 limits just as I reach the high drag on the throttle, thus Kudos to BIS for that little option!

Yay!

[ghostnineone 10]

This guy is using a joystick but I like this video, even though I can't do any of this hahaha

[doveman 7]

Well I spent a couple of hours playing with M&KB, Thrustmaster Hotas X and Xbox360 Controller. Even managed to pull off a funnel at one point but still haven't got the hang of side-slip or circular movements.

The mouse is much better than the Hotas X, because the helo is very responsive to it's movements and I can make small precise movements very rapidly, whereas with the Hotas X there's a massive lag, even with Sensitivity on 100% for the X and Y axis, so you can't make quick adjustments as it just doesn't follow the stick movements quickly enough. Amongst other things, this makes it almost impossible to hover rather than going forwards or backwards. I found it better to use the Throttle and the rocker on the back of it to control the collective and rudder than using the keyboard for those though. It might just be that my brain understands better that the throttle controls collective and the rocker the rudder pedals, rather than WSAD but I think there's more to it than that and the rocker actually gives me more control over the pedals. Not sure if the throttle was actually better or worse than tapping WS though.

The Xbox360 controller is more responsive and precise than the Hotas X, perhaps as much as the mouse but probably without quite the same precision, being that the stick's smaller and thus more senstiive than the mouse. I also haven't found a combination of controls that my brain understands as well as mouse and throttle/rocker yet. I tried left stick for cyclic (set to none in xpadder), right stick for rudder pedals (mapped to AD with xpadder) and triggers for collective (mapped to WS with xpadder) and then tried swapping the right stick and triggers but still found my poor brain getting confused! Maybe if I had a set of rudder pedals and only needed to use the controller for cyclic and collective I could cope better.

I don't know if the Hotas X is at fault or if it's just the way that ArmA interprets it's input but it's a shame either way, as if it worked as well as the other two methods, it would be my input of choice for sure.

EDIT: I don't actually think it's a fault with the Hotas X as I use it fine in DCS. I can also monitor it's DirectInput in Xpadder and it seems perfectly responsive and not laggy at all there. It does have a natural deadzone so you're always going to have to move it out of that (and thus move your arm more than with a mouse) before it sends any output but it's really not at all big.

Edited June 29, 2013 by doveman

[Valient 10]

I have an X52 and the problem is that it is an HOTAS to fly jets with, not helicopters: the main issue being the throttle has two high drag position near maximum and minimum power (they're there to give feedback on afterburner and idle positions in jets)... Luckily enough, I found that changing that number to the correct value at the left of the slider in the options places 100 and -100 limits just as I reach the high drag on the throttle, thus Kudos to BIS for that little option!

Yay!

That was very helpful i have a X52 as well and found that settings after you said it, It makes controlling the collective much easier, help the bit with learning the landing, the problem i have with landing is not always able to land softly and causes dmg to my ENG. Just before before landing going in really slow the heli starts to glide backwards or forward too fast, or maybe because i am close to ground and feels that way, so i try to compensate or rush the landing. Otherwise once in the air i can fly just fine.

[drakoz 10]

The mouse is much better than the Hotas X, because the helo is very responsive to it's movements and I can make small precise movements very rapidly, whereas with the Hotas X there's a massive lag, even with Sensitivity on 100% for the X and Y axis, so you can't make quick adjustments as it just doesn't follow the stick movements quickly enough. Amongst other things, this makes it almost impossible to hover rather than going forwards or backwards.

It is more difficult to learn to hover and manuver with a stick vs. a mouse for the reasons you say, but you can do it with a stick. You have to get the feel for quickly tossing the stick the exact amount of movement to compensate (or not overcompensate) for quick but fine adjustments. We do the same thing with a mouse. We just don't realize it because _everyone_ is really comfortable with a mouse. Getting that kind of comfort with a stick takes more practice.

To see this, balance a broom (bristles up) in the palm of your hand. Now _quickly_ move your hand 2 feet to the left, then 2 feet to the right, then back to center all while keeping the broom perfectly balanced, centered, and not losing control. By quickly, I mean the entire operation should take less than 2 seconds. That's what it takes to fly a helo with a joystick. Sometimes you need to make radical moves with the stick to cause small changes in attitude of the helo. But, you have to do it without losing control. It's easy to do - with practice, but feels insurmountable when new to it. Even for someone that is a great pilot with a mouse can feel like a complete noob with a joystick.

[gliptal 25]

That was very helpful i have a X52 as well and found that settings after you said it, It makes controlling the collective much easier, help the bit with learning the landing, the problem i have with landing is not always able to land softly and causes dmg to my ENG. Just before before landing going in really slow the heli starts to glide backwards or forward too fast, or maybe because i am close to ground and feels that way, so i try to compensate or rush the landing. Otherwise once in the air i can fly just fine.

Usually I find it easier to land with a small amount of forward movement, rather than while in a perfect hover...

Yay!

[doveman 7]

It is more difficult to learn to hover and manuver with a stick vs. a mouse for the reasons you say, but you can do it with a stick. You have to get the feel for quickly tossing the stick the exact amount of movement to compensate (or not overcompensate) for quick but fine adjustments. We do the same thing with a mouse. We just don't realize it because _everyone_ is really comfortable with a mouse. Getting that kind of comfort with a stick takes more practice.

To see this, balance a broom (bristles up) in the palm of your hand. Now _quickly_ move your hand 2 feet to the left, then 2 feet to the right, then back to center all while keeping the broom perfectly balanced, centered, and not losing control. By quickly, I mean the entire operation should take less than 2 seconds. That's what it takes to fly a helo with a joystick. Sometimes you need to make radical moves with the stick to cause small changes in attitude of the helo. But, you have to do it without losing control. It's easy to do - with practice, but feels insurmountable when new to it. Even for someone that is a great pilot with a mouse can feel like a complete noob with a joystick.

It's not that I have to make larger movements with the stick that's the problem, it's that the game is lagging behind and not accurately tracking my stick movements, whereas with the mouse it follows them accurately. As I say, I don't have this problem in DCS so I can only assume it's a problem with the way ArmA is handling the stick input.

[drakoz 10]

Hmm, OK. Ya, that's different than what I was thinking. It shouldn't be that way. What controls did you set your joystick to? I guess there really is only the one option (joystick set to the cyclic controls). I'm sure you know, but just in case - check to make sure there is no dead zone set in the joystick configuration (in Windows or any special software for you stick).

What I was describing was meant as a more generic explanation why many people have difficulty flying a helo with a joystick (and why people probably prefer the mouse). They don't realize just how active you need to be with the stick to keep the helicopter going where you want it, or not going where you don't. Many people think they should be able to just get the helo in a hover and relax, but that's not true. Well, in ARMA, I've been able to do it, but with any real helo I've flown (helo sims, or RC helicopters), you never get to relax. :) In ARMA, I've had more difficulty getting a "clean" hover (where I can relax) with the joystick vs. using the mouse. It's just because we have much better precise control with a mouse.

But, either way, the mouse should not be more responsive than a joystick. More precise, maybe, but not more responsive. At least in my experience.

[gliptal 25]

They don't realize just how active you need to be with the stick to keep the helicopter going where you want it, or not going where you don't.

I noticed this is also true when doing things as simple as moving forward at a constant altitude, or making a level turn...

Yay!

[doveman 7]

Hmm, OK. Ya, that's different than what I was thinking. It shouldn't be that way. What controls did you set your joystick to? I guess there really is only the one option (joystick set to the cyclic controls). I'm sure you know, but just in case - check to make sure there is no dead zone set in the joystick configuration (in Windows or any special software for you stick).

What I was describing was meant as a more generic explanation why many people have difficulty flying a helo with a joystick (and why people probably prefer the mouse). They don't realize just how active you need to be with the stick to keep the helicopter going where you want it, or not going where you don't. Many people think they should be able to just get the helo in a hover and relax, but that's not true. Well, in ARMA, I've been able to do it, but with any real helo I've flown (helo sims, or RC helicopters), you never get to relax. :) In ARMA, I've had more difficulty getting a "clean" hover (where I can relax) with the joystick vs. using the mouse. It's just because we have much better precise control with a mouse.

But, either way, the mouse should not be more responsive than a joystick. More precise, maybe, but not more responsive. At least in my experience.

Yeah, both the Hotas X and Xbox360 controller are mapped to cyclic. I disabled the Deadzone in A3 at the start and tested with the sensitivity on 50%, 75% and 100%. The curves at the top seem to be just images and nothing happens when I click on them.

Windows doesn't appear to have a Deadzone setting and monitoring it under Game Controllers, it seems to be tracking it well enough, once it moves out of the physical deadzone.

In Xpadder, I don't have the stick registered at all, only the buttons. My Xbox360 controller does have the sticks registered in it though and it has a Deadzone set to 25, which doesn't seem to affect it's responsiveness either in Xpadder or A3.

As you say, the stick may never be as precise as the mouse (or even the Xbox360 controller, with the sticks smaller movement radius) but it should be tracked accurately, which doesn't seem to be happening for some reason. I'm going to try mapping it to the mouse in Xpadder and unmapping it from cyclic in A3 and see if that's better.

EDIT: With the stick mapped to mouse Look/Camera in Xpadder and both sensitivities on max, it is much closer to using the mouse now and I can gently nudge the stick to correct unwanted forward/backward motion. I'm still not decided on whether it's as good or if I'd be disadvantaging myself by trying to use it rather than the mouse, so I'll have to play around some more and decide what works. It may be that I just use the throttle and mouse, which still leaves plenty of buttons under my fingers.

Edited June 29, 2013 by doveman

[functional 10]

Honestly, I've found that helicopters are amazingly easy and intuitive to fly in ARMA3. Hard to crash with them, can fly at _very low_ altitudes without feeling like you're losing the control of the vehicle. And most of all - the helicopters have great differences with the way they're handled. I'm very happy for all of these things.

If you want to fly effectively a helicopter, 99% chance that your only bet is a joystick. Heck, even a controller should be theoretically enough to handle it. While you can do it with keyboard, it's unlikely that you'll ever become effective with them. essential reason for this is because your keyboard does something either fast or slow, but at fixed rate which can't be controlled that well. Whereas mouse is very unintuitive way to handle a helicopter because mouse is either too sensitive or not enough sensitive (though, you may have a mouse which sensitivity you can adjust on the fly - this might help you out).

Without joystick or controller, you can't make sensitive or dramatic adjustments easily enough on the fly (pun intended) to become effective pilot who can land very quickly, yet safely, compared to the pilot who has to rely on auto-hover. Hey, I think if you're practicing constantly with that custom map where your helicopter constantly gets engine issues (thus you have to make autorotation landing), you might become a pilot who can literally in pinpoint accuracy land as quickly as possible pretty much anywhere. Though that's not the point of it - your heli can get shot at any time and that's the last resort to bring it safely down if it's possible.

But simply to put it, even with joysticks, you're going to need a lot of practice. With keyboard, you'd probably need years of practice before you can do anything even near as effectively as with joysticks. However, basic flight is very easy from the very beginning (might have to adjust sensitivity settings), then you'll learn how to land without auto-hover. Auto-hover becomes obsolete in two circumstances 1. very rough terrain (if you need to land in a side of a steep hill, for example) and inevitably 2. once you can land faster without it, but with as much success. Then you'll start learn stuff like targeting, quick maneuvers (be it evasive or just for keeping up with target) and most essentially, low altitude flight. Low altitude flight is one of the most important factors in a terrain with geological covers such as hills, mountains or trees. And in these situations, the lower you can go without crashing, the better it is. You will also need to master the art of looking around as well - you must be able to effectively check out what's around you, instead of having fixed viewpoint. For example, if you're making a quickstop for landing, it's sometimes hard to tell if you've missed your landing target or not, if you can't look around.

Hopefully it helps. And by the way, X52 Pro is the joystick that I personally prefer and can't say that I wouldn't recommend it, as it's served it's purpose deeply. Cheap pedals might also be the kosher, but honestly, they're just more unnecessary hifi.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:22 ----------

I noticed this is also true when doing things as simple as moving forward at a constant altitude, or making a level turn...

Yay!

Pay attention to the information that you are provided with the helicopter interface. For example, the showcase helicopter, it provides in the crosshair area a small "scale" which tells you the amount of tilt you have in degrees. While you may not find it as helpful when moving simply forward, but there's also a smaller number that changes depending on your tilt next to it (I think on the right side), which indicates if you're losing or gaining altitude. I don't know what -7 for example means exactly, but it does mean that you're losing altitude, whereas 7 would mean that you're gaining altitude.

There's also all kind of other information provided with you. Few years ago, the helicopter HUD might have been just some visual kosher, but now it provides you with information like it should. Despite that, keep in mind, what you see is what you get.

[gliptal 25]

Pay attention to the information that you are provided with the helicopter interface. For example, the showcase helicopter, it provides in the crosshair area a small "scale" which tells you the amount of tilt you have in degrees. While you may not find it as helpful when moving simply forward, but there's also a smaller number that changes depending on your tilt next to it (I think on the right side), which indicates if you're losing or gaining altitude. I don't know what -7 for example means exactly, but it does mean that you're losing altitude, whereas 7 would mean that you're gaining altitude.

There's also all kind of other information provided with you. Few years ago, the helicopter HUD might have been just some visual kosher, but now it provides you with information like it should. Despite that, keep in mind, what you see is what you get.

Yes I did notice the altitude variation indicator in most helicopter HUDs, I guess it's in meters (since everything is in meters in the game, although I'd really like dealing with feet for the flying portion, that being jets and helicopters)...

One thing I'd REALLY love is a working FPM on the HUD... :D

Yay!