Intervention in Iraq. 10th Anniversary

[oxmox 73]

Article is completely wrong

Well, if you can provide me news article who say different from the main media. The infos were taken from classified papers. Not gonna read a webpage in arabic.

Guys seriously forget the oil

Exactly, between 200.000 to one million people did die in this war and many of them were allegedly civilians, besides the suffering until these days.....people are not worth to mention ?

Edited March 22, 2013 by oxmox

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

There is a button provided for you to click that displays the information in english........

[oxmox 73]

Found it, where do we go from here ? You are welcome to link something and Iam open to reputeable informations. All you did so far was listing company names from 2009 without journalistic back up. What has this in common with the linked press article.

Article is completely wrong and you should know better than to get your facts from a dubious news source

The Independant is one of the four biggest newspapers in the UK, I dont think this is a dubious source.

Edited March 22, 2013 by oxmox

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

The US gets 22% of it's oil from the Persian Gulf, 14 % of that is from Saudi Arabia (down 32% from 2001), 8% is from others such as Kuwait (down 38% from 2001) and Iraq (down 41% from 2001). If the US invaded Iraq to steal it's oil why isn't it stealing any? It a simple enough question isn't it? Why is the USA buying 41% less oil than when Saddam was in power when it could have much more?

The response I got was that the reports and figures are lies and that it's being smuggled. So my next question was - how are they smuggling it out? Are the Iranians really as dumb as a bag of hammers that they haven't noticed hundreds of unregistered oil tankers sailing passed their country, perhaps it's being flown out by stealth bomber or maybe there is a pipeline all the way from Basra to Alaska built with secret alien technology? Don't think those are likely, so where is the oil the US has stolen, how did they get it out and why has no one noticed?

What do you need a journalist for? I have linked you directly to the US and Iraqi Government data on oil imports and exports? I then had to explain how to use the web page, am I now expected to read it for you as well?

Edited March 23, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[NoRailgunner 0]

This could help a bit to understand the conflict: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait. As for the Iraq War in 2003 the US + UK governments just found and presented their evidences of important mass destruction in Iraq + links between Al Quaeda as reasonable enough to invade Iraq. Everyone just wants to gain a little bit of power and control in one or another way. Just listen to soldiers and what they think or believe they are really fighting for and why. What do soldiers gain for their pain?

[oxmox 73]

The US gets 22% of it's oil from the Persian Gulf, 14 % of that is from Saudi Arabia (down 32% from 2001), 8% is from others such as Kuwait (down 38% from 2001) and Iraq (down 41% from 2001). If the US invaded Iraq to steal it's oil why isn't it stealing any? It a simple enough question isn't it? Why is the USA buying 41% less oil than when Saddam was in power when it could have much more?

The response I got was that the reports and figures are lies and that it's being smuggled. So my next question was - how are they smuggling it out? Are the Iranians really as dumb as a bag of hammers that they haven't noticed hundreds of unregistered oil tankers sailing passed their country, perhaps it's being flown out by stealth bomber or maybe there is a pipeline all the way from Basra to Alaska built with secret alien technology? Don't think those are likely, so where is the oil the US has stolen, how did they get it out and why has no one noticed?

What do you need a journalist for? I have linked you directly to the US and Iraqi Government data on oil imports and exports? I then had to explain how to use the web page, am I now expected to read it for you as well?

http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_brief/images/charts/sources_of_petroleum_net-large.gif

I didnt say anything about lies, "smuggling", stealing. Such a simple view fits not even into the tactics of geoplitics worldwide. The Independant reports rather about pre-discussions, oppurtunities and contracts, a lot of the content is about the UK. Iam not sure what are you into here. When it comes to the USA, US Oil trusts are not really widespread and allegedly Exxon did retreat from the market over there. Lots of different companies did enter the market which you did post about it. The US is rather big into Oil drilling i.e. Halliburton.

Edited March 23, 2013 by oxmox

[Tonci87 163]

Priceless

http://cheezburger.com/7150599424

[mrcash2009 0]

Priceless

http://cheezburger.com/7150599424

Go Go Risinghegemon! :) Funny though how they all respond to the office press poster.

[oxmox 73]

Iraq: Ten Years Visualised

It's ten years since Iraq was invaded. What kind of country has been left behind - how many people died and what was the effect on the US and UK military? This graphic from today's Guardian shows what happened to the country at the centre of a war.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/mar/14/iraq-ten-years-visualised

There is another interesting visual animation about drone attacks in Pakistan and the results:

http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Read this if you would like something more indepth than simple graphics:

Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq, Thomas E. Ricks

http://www.amazon.com/Fiasco-American-Military-Adventure-Iraq/dp/0143038915

Thomas E. Ricks - Live Q&As

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/07/07/DI2006070701061.html

Number Crunching

Drone Strikes:

Total Killed: approx 3,000 (mostly militants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drone_strikes_in_Pakistan

Militant Terrorism in Pakistan:

Total Killed: approx 38,000 (mostly civilians)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_incidents_in_Pakistan_in_2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Pakistan

Isn't it odd that targetted drone strikes meet a wall of criticism whilst the same militants kill hundreds of Pakistani citizens every week? Is someone going to complain about that at some point? Perhaps that is why Pakistani Government complaints are often very public but lacking sincerity, the US is solving Pakistan's internal terrorism problems for it? The terrorism is not a result of drone strikes, it predates it by several years and seems more related to the Swat Valley campaign.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[walker 0]

Hi all

The US did not invade to steal Iraq's oil.

At the time George Bush and Tony Balir made it clear, they invaded because because Sadam was involved in 9/11 had WMD and was hiding Al Qaeda.

Of course now we know that was all just Politicians lies, purveyed by an elite controled mass media, which is just rich people telling other rich people what things to say about the poor to the middle classes so as to make them most angry and afraid, it is called an Amygdala Hijack. Use Google ;)

If you were fooled, or if like me, you trusted the politicians not to lie on such an important issue, then you like I have only yourself to blame.

We wrote all about it here, when we were being fooled:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?21540-The-Iraq-Thread

it Grew next to this:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?28096-The-Iraq-Thread-2

And then to this:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?33275-The-Iraq-thread-3&highlight=Iraq+thread

All the way to this:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?37754-The-Iraq-thread-4

As well as offshoots to take in various side topics that endangered the threads focus.

As you can see from the start we were told the war was about

9/11

Al Qaeda

and WMD.

Which all turned out to be manufactured lies.

In the end I and Many others pointed the finger at Rumsfeld's Office of Special Plans as the source of the lies but only Scooter Liby ever got convicted for any of its crimes. Cheney got an initial 6 Billion Dollar plus welfare Cheque for Halliburton the company he had run into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. Rumsfeld and Cheyney and their ilk, via roots and links and backhanders in companies like Kellogg Brown & Root, Halliburton which eventualy got nearly 40 Billion of US tax payers money, et all; along with all those other carpet baggers in Bahgdad's Emerald City, became millionaires and billionaires off fat government contracts defrauded from US tax payers, whille Iraqi's died in their hundreds of thousands and US and UK soldiers died in their thousands and came back maimed and broken in their tens of thousands to lands of poverty and bankruptcy.

The US and the UK, or rather those who control the US and UK invaded because Sadam had changed the currency that oil was sold in from the Dollar to the Euro. Up until that point the USA could not give a Flying F*** what Sadam or "Iraq" did, but Sadam threatained the the USA's Rulers cut on all oil sold in dollars round the world, in the form Seigniorage.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/seigniorage

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/seigniorage

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seigniorage.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage

And US citizens do not own or profit from their Treasury it is privatley owned by a multinational group of finaciers who take the profits as managment fees.

And any additional money that multinational companies who run the USA made from oil contracts that was sold not the USA but on the open market, was never given to oiks like US citizen tax payers, it was reserved for the international elite who own America and its treasury and payed into offshore bank acounts that they run America from. The biggest contributors to US politicians are not even registered in America.

Kind Regards Walker

Edited April 3, 2013 by walker

[Prydain 1]

My auntie's husband is a Kurd, a left leaning socialist Kurd, just like me politically and I'd not have him as a family member without him obtaining the freedom to travel. I defer a lot of moralizations to the Iraqi people themselves.

I do think that the UN had an appointment with Saddam and his insane crime family that was not being discharged and so US intervention could be justified but I also think that 2 million people on the streets of London during a working week being blanked has had, and will continue to have, a very bad effect on the way we protest in this country and the blanking was a sickening thing in itself.

I am always surprised how boring and unmoving American conversation are on the matter of the war. It always deteriorates to talking about oil or Cheney or Halliburton, pretty soon someone needs to realise that the fat cats always get rich off of other peoples suffering whether there is a war or not. I think the humiliation the US inflicts on itself for suppressing the right to healthcare for its own people, making up lies about it costing too much in the process, while having no such financial prudence when it comes to a war is a very serious thing and yet this imbalance can't be talked about while stupid shit like "no war for oil" can be. The debate is all wrong.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

@Walker

Not actually very accurate Walker - the Bush administration was fed hundreds of lies by various Iraqi exiles and others such as Ahmed Chalabi and the intelligence source 'curveball'. Bush, Cheyney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz isolated themselves from the Army, CIA and others who were deeply suspicious and most in these organizations were against invasion. The core of the Bush Administration simply wouldn't listen to any advice. They had their own sources and wouldn't accept outside input at all.

Bush and his merry men were stupid enough to believe most of it and did not think for one moment that the Iraqi exile group may have ulterior motives for manipulating the Americans into an invasion. Chalabi (along with Bremer) is also widely blamed for the de-baathification fiasco that led to the Sunni revolt and insurgency. If the Iraqi army, police and civil service had been allowed to stay in place and continue running things for a time it's likely the mass anarchy wouldn't have occurred.

Chalabi had the senior members of the administration so enthralled by his tall stories that he was even invited to sit behind the 1st Lady at the 2004 State of the Union speech:

He fell out of favor when he was caught lying (no WMD's were ever found) and passing intel to the Iranians.

The discredited NY Times journalist, Judith Miller also had Chalabi as a source. Her belief in the same stories destroyed her career:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller

Edited April 3, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[Tonci87 163]

Well the US Administration simply choose to believe what they wanted to.

[nodunit 397]

hundreds of lies

wouldn't listen to any advice.

Ah to be blissfully ignorant..

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Ah to be blissfully ignorant..

Well if you would like to cure your ignorance, take a look at the book I mentioned at the top of the page:

In the late 1990s, Zinni said that the U.S. risked entering a "Bay of Goats" if it relied on exiles such as the Iraqi National Congress to invade Iraq.

Gen. Anthony Zinni Ret. former commander of CENTCOM

Many including Gen. Zinni accurately predicted what was happening and what would occur - they were not listened to. Zinni drafted an invasion planduring his time at CENTCOM which was simply put in the trash by Rumsfeld and his aides because it was too pessimistic and used too many troops. In the end Zinni was proved correct!

Edited April 3, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[oxmox 73]

Read this if you would like something more indepth than simple graphics:

Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq, Thomas E. Ricks

http://www.amazon.com/Fiasco-American-Military-Adventure-Iraq/dp/0143038915

Thomas E. Ricks - Live Q&As

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/07/07/DI2006070701061.html

Number Crunching

Drone Strikes:

Total Killed: approx 3,000 (mostly militants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drone_strikes_in_Pakistan

Militant Terrorism in Pakistan:

Total Killed: approx 38,000 (mostly civilians)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_incidents_in_Pakistan_in_2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Pakistan

Isn't it odd that targetted drone strikes meet a wall of criticism whilst the same militants kill hundreds of Pakistani citizens every week? Is someone going to complain about that at some point? Perhaps that is why Pakistani Government complaints are often very public but lacking sincerity, the US is solving Pakistan's internal terrorism problems for it? The terrorism is not a result of drone strikes, it predates it by several years and seems more related to the Swat Valley campaign.

Thank you for the links.

Well, the visual graphics are based on researches from the british "The Bureau of Investigative Journalism", they have more releases on their page. Of course there are more background infos about it than just an overview in form of graphics. Neverles it is still interesting to see the outcome of such strikes. Well, iam not sure if it is odd that drone strikes meet a wall of criticism since the accuracy of such weapons seem a little off when you watch the collateral damage and thats probably why you hear it more often in the media. Its always good to have investigative Journalism. The terrorism in Pakistan is of course a huge issue and a challenge, which did arise not only due to inner politics but partly as a result of the Afghanistan War and the Saudi Al Quida movement in general.

[kireta21 13]

Keyword is "High Profile". Common insurgents, bodyguards etc. are not high profile targets

[walker 0]

Hi all

The details of how the American Inteligence Sevice was hijacked and who was involved in the Deciet and Betrayal of America was described here:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/in-rumsfelds-shop/

By one of those who witnessed it taking place, deep in the heart of the American politcal system. And who saw the dark actors who were diverting, poluting and poisoning the American Inteligence stream to lead America to a disasterous policy.

Kind regards walker