In the future apparently human beings are not subject to inertia or weight.

[squirrel0311 16]

Well I'm not 100% as to if this has already been said but there are a few things that should be mentioned.

1. This video was filmed in the Alpha stage if I remember correctly.

and

2. He was using a pistol and carrying pretty much no gear which makes what he did VERY doable in real life.

People claim it's unrealistic but not really... if he was wearing a heavy backpack, using a rifle, and crouched then maybe.. or prone then yes. But he was standing, he knew he just shot someone and so he was on alert that others may have heard and are nearby.

Most military training today teaches some sort of basic reflex movement for shooting enemies behind you. Even in relatively close quarters it's possible to be crouched with a backpack on and twist your body enough to shoot someone with a rifle who is behind you.. aiming down the sight is more difficult but not completely impossible.

Personally I see nothing overly wrong with the movement and turning/spinning,I think it's a huge improvement over Arma 2. I'd rather die because I took a stupid chance by talking and letting someone spin around and kill me rather than I would if I had some sort of clunky movement hindering system preventing me from saving myself when I know it was completely possible.

[metalcraze 290]

Current state is a result of many trade-offs for sake for increased fluidity of control over the character. Being huge fan of inertia in animations and having prototyped some of moves like sprint-stopping/starting etc. - well it takes away from control-ability, i must admit it was correct choice, taking into account the assets that we had. The animation system is, however, a candidate for further development so we might as well see some improvements in this field.

So basically you find the ability to rotate on a belly like a propeller and do instant 360 turns underwater an OK thing? Or doing insta 180 turn while sprinting full speed without losing any?

Even arcade shooters like CoD and BF do it right and yet nobody whines about the lack of control but in an "authentic" "sim-game" ArmA3 it's an issue?

Personally I see nothing overly wrong with the movement and turning/spinning,I think it's a huge improvement over Arma 2.

Right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXMMA7djguU

Edited November 4, 2013 by metalcraze

[sektor 2]

Your move, Squirrel0311.

[squirrel0311 16]

So basically you find the ability to rotate on a belly like a propeller and do instant 360 turns underwater an OK thing? Or doing insta 180 turn while sprinting full speed without losing any?

Even arcade shooters like CoD and BF do it right and yet nobody whines about the lack of control but in an "authentic" "sim-game" ArmA3 it's an issue?

Right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXMMA7djguU

Your move, Squirrel0311.

......In case you didn't know....that video was sped up and slowed down to match the beat of the song.

However, now that you point it out I should go ahead and clearify... if they haven't fixed it yet... (I can't recall) I don't want belly spinning (360 or even 180 quick spins in the prone) You should have to move in segments just like when you crawl sideways. The same goes for the sitting position.

Like I said though I don't recall it being an issue but if it's possible to do what I described above then yeah that part should be fixed. As far as the OP video though, nothing too unrealistic about that and like I said I think they tweaked the movements since the alpha when that video was made. Don't get all butthurt just because you suck at break dancing. :p

Edited November 4, 2013 by Squirrel0311

[metalcraze 290]

.....In case you didn't know....that video was sped up and slowed down to match the beat of the song.

Except it's a cut out from a live-stream and everything in it is easily doable in the game but keep going.

[squirrel0311 16]

Except it's a cut out from a live-stream and everything in it is easily doable in the game but keep going.

It being livestream has nothing to do with it being sped up and slowed down. You hear their voices talking just fine while it cuts back and forth, slows down and speeds up at about...00:30 especially. Nearly the whole video is slightly sped up.

Besides being able to drop into different stances quickly or rise relatively quick isn't unrealistic either unless you're wearing 80 pounds of gear. Now that part needs work depending on their load outs but like I said...The only thing I don't like is the spinning, but if they can't get it right then I'd rather them just leave it alone.

[progamer 14]

Inertia is a problem now. It was better in Arma 2, but I think it lacked inertia for Running and based on weapon weight.

[kilroy the nerd 14]

You'll also note that the guy who did that video said he likes it better this way, as an ex-marine weapon instructor who was stationed at Okiniwa.

[metalcraze 290]

It being livestream has nothing to do with it being sped up and slowed down. You hear their voices talking just fine while it cuts back and forth, slows down and speeds up at about...00:30 especially. Nearly the whole video is slightly sped up.

How can you speed up or slow down time in a twitch.tv livestream?

It's exactly how movement in the game looks. Try it yourself. Sit (upper prone stance) or go prone or go underwater and your soldier will spin as fast as you will be able to move the mouse. Which is not only completely unrealistic but is beyond reasonable since it allows for 180 degree turn quick-snap shots even underwater. You can add Q and E into the mix when prone and you will get exactly that break dancing.

For maximum ridiculousness you can also go to side-prone stances and you still will be able to spin at a ridiculous speed even though you shouldn't even be able to move right while laying on your side.

How is that an improvement over ArmA2 exactly? BIS made movement much less realistic than in BF3/4 and Call of Duty which limit prone stance turn speed and add inertia to sprint. And they do not claim to be "authentic". For shame.

Edited November 5, 2013 by metalcraze

[roshnak 41]

Because any other movement system on the planet would have been better than arma 2. For once in this series I don't feel like I'm fighting with the game to move through doorways. The movement could stand to be tweaked a little, but on the whole this is a good change.

[Smurf 12]

Perfect? Nope.

Better? Sure, miles ahead.

[squirrel0311 16]

How can you speed up or slow down time in a twitch.tv livestream?

It's exactly how movement in the game looks. Try it yourself. Sit (upper prone stance) or go prone or go underwater and your soldier will spin as fast as you will be able to move the mouse. Which is not only completely unrealistic but is beyond reasonable since it allows for 180 degree turn quick-snap shots even underwater. You can add Q and E into the mix when prone and you will get exactly that break dancing.

For maximum ridiculousness you can also go to side-prone stances and you still will be able to spin at a ridiculous speed even though you shouldn't even be able to move right while laying on your side.

How is that an improvement over ArmA2 exactly? BIS made movement much less realistic than in BF3/4 and Call of Duty which limit prone stance turn speed and add inertia to sprint. And they do not claim to be "authentic". For shame.

Ok first let me focus on the issue... I never said it didn't have its flaws...

Squirrel0311 - "Personally I see nothing OVERLY wrong with the movement and turning/spinning,I think it's a huge improvement over Arma 2." Please not that I have capped and underlined the key word which entails the next point...

Squirel0311 - "I don't want belly spinning (360 or even 180 quick spins in the prone) You should have to move in segments just like when you crawl sideways. The same goes for the sitting position." " like I said...The only thing I don't like is the spinning, but if they can't get it right then I'd rather them just leave it alone."

Again... I think the movement system is a huge step forward but there are things that need to be tweaked. (E.G. Spinning in the SITTING and the PRONE as well as a little inertia while jogging and something for the weight of the loadout.) However, as I stated before, I think it's good enough right now... If they can't come up with a system that realisticly and smoothly mimics the real mechanics of movement with gear...THEN....I'd rather them just leave it how it is now. ....Maybe instead, focus on building a medical rose and also a repair rose.

As for the video.... Yes I know you can do all the moves in game at relatively quick speed but that video is still sped up.

When people post videos for youtube they sometimes use programs called editing software.... These programs can take recorded video be it from a camera, or a live stream and seperate audio and video, cut out segments and yes even slow down and speed up the frame rate. Since the audio and video can be seperated, he sped up the clip slightly and slowed it down at 00:33 (I think - watch the bullets impact near the end.) but just put the audio (Voices with music) to it as normal. Also there is a part early on where the vidoe lags so don't confuse that with the part I'm talking about.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Squirrel0311

[dmarkwick 261]

How can you speed up or slow down time in a twitch.tv livestream?

It's exactly how movement in the game looks. Try it yourself. Sit (upper prone stance) or go prone or go underwater and your soldier will spin as fast as you will be able to move the mouse. Which is not only completely unrealistic but is beyond reasonable since it allows for 180 degree turn quick-snap shots even underwater. You can add Q and E into the mix when prone and you will get exactly that break dancing.

For maximum ridiculousness you can also go to side-prone stances and you still will be able to spin at a ridiculous speed even though you shouldn't even be able to move right while laying on your side.

How is that an improvement over ArmA2 exactly? BIS made movement much less realistic than in BF3/4 and Call of Duty which limit prone stance turn speed and add inertia to sprint. And they do not claim to be "authentic". For shame.

I'd be more impressed with the complaint if, instead of seeing videos of people having a laugh breakdancing in ArmA as though it's some gamebreaking idiocy, that videos of people actually using this ability to gamebreaking effect are shown. i.e. I keep hearing about how it's possible to run one way then another way instantly, but have never seen it.

---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------

You'll also note that the guy who did that video said he likes it better this way, as an ex-marine weapon instructor who was stationed at Okiniwa.

Also, the video looks to me like he just turned and happened on that guy by pure luck. Nothing led me to believe that he twitch-responded to anything.

[steele6 0]

honestly, the system is fine as it is. its not super sensitive like COD, and its maybe a little less than BF3.

honestly, when has this effect of animations affected your game in arma3? your close range fights of COD era are rare and you can't "beat" anyone by superiour running/quick circling etc.

I'd rather the dev's focus on more important stuff.

[Varanon 892]

Because any other movement system on the planet would have been better than arma 2. For once in this series I don't feel like I'm fighting with the game to move through doorways. The movement could stand to be tweaked a little, but on the whole this is a good change.

Besides the point. It's not about getting through doors, but doing a 360 degree turn, prone on the floor, in less than a second. Or sprint and do a 180 degree turn.

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------

Perfect? Nope.

Better? Sure, miles ahead.

In what respect ?

I love this "It's better" without any comment on WHAT is better.

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

honestly, the system is fine as it is. its not super sensitive like COD, and its maybe a little less than BF3.

Oh, is it ? So it's ok to be able to turn at ridiculous speeds ? It's ok to be able to run with 100 kg on your back without inertia ?

Oh, right, "it's a game". It's just meant to be an authentic game, and this is one of the most not authentic movements I've ever seen in any game.

[steele6 0]

Oh, is it ? So it's ok to be able to turn at ridiculous speeds

dude. grab a gun, in real life, now, quickly point it left and right, as fast as you can.. now, I'm a average, non military human being*. so I don't work out everyday to "Born in the USA" while using the gun on the fire range. I can move the rifle pretty fast. see how your body stays put, but only your hands move?

so now, arma3 moves the gun at the same time as your body. it can't move your arms separately to your body. so, the "rigid arms" movement of arma 3 is equal to a real life "non rigid arms" movement. I don't see any complaint here. if we were to change it to a "realistic system", then we go back to clunky arma 2 stuff. and that was terrible compared to now.

*quite handsome, I'd say, too! :cool:

[dmarkwick 261]

Besides the point. It's not about getting through doors, but doing a 360 degree turn, prone on the floor, in less than a second. Or sprint and do a 180 degree turn.

I keep hearing about how it's possible to run one way then another way instantly, but have never seen it.

As I say, I haven't seen this in action on any game. I just don't see how people would put it to use in any case - what practical advantage would a sprinting guy have turning 180? A reduced likeliehood of being hit? Zig-zagging is already a RL tactic to prevent being hit, and not a bad one. Hitting a zig-zagging guy is a matter of luck in any case, and i don't see much practical difference here.

In what respect ?

I love this "It's better" without any comment on WHAT is better.

Well, the sense of better control and ability to actually do the thing you want to do is improved.

Oh, is it ? So it's ok to be able to turn at ridiculous speeds ? It's ok to be able to run with 100 kg on your back without inertia ?

Oh, right, "it's a game". It's just meant to be an authentic game, and this is one of the most not authentic movements I've ever seen in any game.

I will agree that increased weight should have penalties, but pragmatically they ought to be more about speed & fatigue. If you're running about with a full backpack on something has gone wrong already :)

[steele6 0]

see folks, there is no benefit to playing this game COD-like, where you can turn around so fast and nail that guy in the corner running at you with a knife.

no one can do that in arma 3 anyway.

[Varanon 892]

As I say, I haven't seen this in action on any game. I just don't see how people would put it to use in any case - what practical advantage would a sprinting guy have turning 180? A reduced likeliehood of being hit? Zig-zagging is already a RL tactic to prevent being hit, and not a bad one. Hitting a zig-zagging guy is a matter of luck in any case, and i don't see much practical difference here.

Please check again: I'm not claiming anything about whether it's game braking or not, whether it gives you an advantage or not. I just claim that the current way of moving around in Arma 3 is ridiculous. That's it. Make of it what you want, but they way you can sprint and change direction instantly is miles away from any authenticity. And closing your eyes won't change that either.

If you insist on seeing it, here, have a peek:

Well, the sense of better control and ability to actually do the thing you want to do is improved.

Heh, you try to explain one vague assertion with another vague assertion.

---------- Post added at 10:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

dude. grab a gun, in real life, now, quickly point it left and right, as fast as you can.. now, I'm a average, non military human being*. so I don't work out everyday to "Born in the USA" while using the gun on the fire range. I can move the rifle pretty fast. see how your body stays put, but only your hands move?

so now, arma3 moves the gun at the same time as your body. it can't move your arms separately to your body. so, the "rigid arms" movement of arma 3 is equal to a real life "non rigid arms" movement. I don't see any complaint here. if we were to change it to a "realistic system", then we go back to clunky arma 2 stuff. and that was terrible compared to now.

*quite handsome, I'd say, too! :cool:

"dude", I was in the army. Grab a gun and put a backpack on your back, then run and try the same, and you will see how ridiculous this is (check the video I posted).

And if you re-check, I didn't bring up Arma 2 at all. I'm not comparing it to Arma 2 anywhere, because I think Arma 2 didn't have real inertia, either, it was just the mouse smoothing that did it. And I don't need to, since Arma 3 does a very fine job at making the movement look ridiculous without needing to compare it to anything, neither CoD, nor Arma 2.

[steele6 0]

look man, it doesnt affect they way you play the game.

no-one does that crazy stuff in the video above, because you still get shot.

this is an unimportant critque of arma 3, and resources should be diverted elsewhere. its that simple.

[dmarkwick 261]

Please check again: I'm not claiming anything about whether it's game braking or not, whether it gives you an advantage or not. I just claim that the current way of moving around in Arma 3 is ridiculous. That's it. Make of it what you want, but they way you can sprint and change direction instantly is miles away from any authenticity. And closing your eyes won't change that either.

Again, posting some vague video of a ridiculous move doesn't mean anything, I'm interested in a practical example of how it makes any difference ingame. I might see some downsides to the prone situation, but again I have never actually seen it in action. You still need situational awareness for it to be any use, and the advantages gained by the ability seem to be minimised by the nature of the game itself, which is more about tactics than skillz.

I keep reading how this is a big problem, with no real evidence that it IS a real problem. it seems to be more of a vague, imaginary theoretical problem.

Heh, you try to explain one vague assertion with another vague assertion.

Well, I might say likewise ;)

[steele6 0]

I agree with the above post, so what if its unrealistic, its a good way to represent my avatar in game, and I have absolutely no complaints. lets move on with our arma 3 lives.

[Varanon 892]

look man, it doesnt affect they way you play the game.

no-one does that crazy stuff in the video above, because you still get shot.

Oh, it doesn't ?

Let's look at the oh so beloved Wasteland. A sniper lies somewhere in a bush killing people from long range. Someone of the other team flanks him. And starts shooting. The sniper notices, but since he can spin around on the floor like mad, he can turn around and one-shot the guy with his ultra powerful sniper rifle.

Don't tell me it doesn't affect the way you play the game.

this is an unimportant critque of arma 3, and resources should be diverted elsewhere. its that simple.

It's not. And for the record, no one is claiming that it needs to be fixed with priority or at once. But it is a point that needs attention, and as such, i see nothing wrong with discussing it. It's an unimportant criticism ? To you perhaps, Not to others.

[Phantom Six 25]

I agree with the above post, so what if its unrealistic, its a good way to represent my avatar in game, and I have absolutely no complaints. lets move on with our arma 3 lives.

We might as well start having people who are about to get flanked from behind to pull that "180 quick scope" of their's by quickly spinning to take out a guy who flanked them. In a situation like that if you are prone on the floor, the guy who is already facing you is going to get the chance of giving the first bike. There's no chance of you 180-ing instantly shooting him since if you were to turn like that on the floor, you'll have to readjust and fire in which the guy will shoot you first; you'll have to rely on your spotter to cover you there. (Don't give me a I have a 180-quick scope skill shot excuse because that won't cut it).

[steele6 0]

We might as well start having people who are about to get flanked from behind to pull that "180 quick scope" of their's by quickly spinning to take out a guy who flanked them. In a situation like that if you are prone on the floor, the guy who is already facing you is going to get the chance of giving the first bike. There's no chance of you 180-ing instantly shooting him since if you were to turn like that on the floor, you'll have to readjust and fire in which the guy will shoot you first; you'll have to rely on your spotter to cover you there. (Don't give me a I have a 180-quick scope skill shot excuse because that won't cut it).

damn straight, take the sniper rifle, put an AI facing away from you behind you, about 100-300 meters away, and try 180 shoot him. its difficult to say the least. (thats the optimal engagement range anyway. )