Best production assault rifle in the world?

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 1]

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[InRange 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 15 2002,16:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Super Soaker MONSTER XL<span id='postcolor'>

Wow, that's a little different than the puny Super Soaker 50 I had as a kid.

Anyways, I'd say the AK-47 and all it's variants are the best rifles in the world.

[USSoldier11B 0]

Ohhh, such a tough question.

Personally I think the HK G36 is probably the best assault rifle ever produced. I really like the M4A1, it's fairly reliable, pretty accurate, and very modular . It isn't the best because it has too many parts and is difficult to clean because it get so much carbon fouling. I hate the M16A2. I hear the Galil is an excellent weapon, but I have not used it. I haven't heard good things about the Enfield SA-80. The Steyr Aug is considered a good weapon by most U.S. Special Forces soldiers, it's bullpup design makes it an excellent CQB weapon. Drawbacks are that it is a tad small for larger soldiers and cannot be operated by lefties (like me).

Oldies but goodies:

-AK 47/74 and other Kalishnikov type variants: Most prolifically produced assault rifle in the world Field strips to 8 parts and will fire very dirty. A true grunt's weapon. A very functional weapon that can be found in almost any length and stock configuration. Not very modular since the design is so old. AK's have drawbacks in the accuracy and iron sights department. Most AK's have stamped receivers which allow the barrel to flex more than a milled receiver would, causing the rifle to be less accurate. Durability wise there is almost no difference though.

-FN FAL and clones (IMI, L1A, etc..)

Second only to the AK in worldwide production. Two types of FAL's, metric and inch. Metric FAL's are by far the best parts wise since they are blueprinted on the orginal design. A very powerful weapon chambered in 7.62 x 51 NATO.

Very durable and have a feature that is unique to the FAL only. That feature would be the adjustable gas system. Allowing you to adjust for different types of ammo and varying degrees of fouling. The FAL is easy to clean and can be field stripped in about 20 seconds due to it's open breach design. The only parts of the weapon that get significantly fouled are the gas tube components and the barrel. Iron sights are fair, but better than those of the HK G3A3/91/93 rifles. Upper receiver cover (Milspec) is very flimsy stamped sheet steel. It can be a safety hazard, but can be replaced with excellent milled after market covers that include a 1913 pickatinny rail for mounting scopes. Drawbacks: Weapon is too long, felt recoil can be annoying due to the undersized buffer assembly. Magazine feed can be unreliable.

-HK G3A3 91/93 and clones:

Better than the FAL in almost evey respect except for the iron sights. Is good in the accuracy department and converts well into sniper configuration. Civilian side the parts are much more expensive than those for the FAL.

-M14/M21

Utilizes the Garand gas system, one of the safest ever developed. Operating an M14 can be awkward at first until you get used to the design of the action. Like most 7.62 x 51 assault rifles it performs poorly in full auto. M14 has a nicer feel and balance than both the FAL and G3A3. Next to the PSG-1 it is the one of the most accurate semi-auto rifles ever produced. Although it was only produced for half a decade in battle rifle configuration, it is a legend. Perceived recoil is much less than that of both the FAL and 91/93 type rifles.

[Mister Frag 0]

USSoldier11B, congratulations on a very objective, well-educated post.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">USSoldier11B, congratulations on a very objective, well-educated post.

<span id='postcolor'>

Do I get a little gold foil star sticker?

[timmy 0]

yes, congrats, i would have said somthing on the lines of what you said, just not in so much detail.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ July 15 2002,21:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">USSoldier11B, congratulations on a very objective, well-educated post.

<span id='postcolor'>

Do I get a little gold foil star sticker? <span id='postcolor'>

Sure. You can even have my joice box at lunch tomorrow.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sure. You can even have my joice box at lunch tomorrow.<span id='postcolor'>

YAAY!

USSoldier11B <----Very Special Forces Soldier

"I ride the little short C-130."

*trumpets*

1500 posts!

[Mister Frag 0]

It also explains why they keep making you wear your helmet at all times.

[USSoldier11B 0]

We never wear Kevlar in my unit. Only when we do airborne ops.

[Mister Frag 0]

No, not the PASGT one -- the padded one!

[Maraudeur 0]

Wow, I'm posting a lot by those times !  

My two cents ( bis, lol ! )

Well, sure AK series are a benchmark, along its modern Finnish, Israeli and South African derivatives.

AK-107 is a good example of improving a basic design to reach from a primitive design results some very sophisticated guns are still dreamings about...especially low felt recoil, acuracy in bursts and reliability. ( Keep it simple stupid ? lol, the right manner...HK G-36 is a reliability and stability winner because of this )

Reason of my post is about HK talks.

First, I've seen around in some armies people using G3 that it is a bad weapon, prone to jam ( Turkish, now Swedish ).

Well, first, action is rolled delayed. ( Unlike the G36, gas operated, and without gas incursion inside the whole mechanism, unlike many other gas operated rifles, that will suffer amount of dirt after a variable number of rounds )

It needs very good steel and precise manufacturing.

It seems that some license made models were not reaching HK originals requirments.

About Swedish models, I think it is not ( but I really do not know ).

What I am sure about, is that for sure this mechanism is sensible to dust, some sand and very thin particules found on some type of mud, due to the precision needed for the rollers to operate. Will this happen

Those agents ( dirt etc ) can penetrate the gun by the ejection port. But the space for this is very thin...

Rollers are well protected in their embreachments, behind the locking piece, the bolt, and finally the bolt carrier.

The only way to penetrate the mechanism is between the ejection port and the bolt and bolt carrier. Assembly is made of a sort that it is not an easy way, space betwenn those parts and the main body is really minimal ( if made under original's HK specs, with good materials...)

So...we all know dirt ( thin sand for example ) will always reach the places we do not thought it could. And then ? rollers are really unreachables, because locking piece is closing the place in a forward move. When this move is achieved...no way. Before ? please see below.

Even if dirt penetratde...some spaces let the dirt sleeping without annoying the gun.

More....when fired, the moment the bolt goes bacward due to recoil ( delivered by the unlocking rollers action ), the pressure in the barrel is still important, so dirt will go away, fell anywhere but not in the fine roller mechanism. ( and won't authorise dirt to penetrate by the ejection space by this time, but will help auto cleaning the mechanism of already there small sandly trolls, to the lower part of the gun body )

And G series design do not care for little ammount of mud in the lower main body part : empty spaces , the trigger mechanism is very large, and about magazine, no prob except if you've put some glue on your cartridges.... - about that point, the chambers got some space for the gases to go and help extraction/prevent the cartridge to stay in the chamber and throw back the dirt from chamber, roller embreachments  and exposed rollers themselves in the rear move...-

Just a small picture to illustrate a little( thanks to a HK fans site )

Follow the propertys, Go and visit their pages

About the stripped gun Denoir shows us.

Yes, there is a number of little pieces.

Two questions :

- Is this the first stage of field stripping the gun to clean it / solve a jam ? Hmmm ?

- Isn't that stripping showing us dismounted parts as the firing pin, and are many other rifles allowing to reach it so easily ?

About jams with blank cartridges.

To have a sufficient amount of pressure for the action to work, it is necessary to put a blank devices at the flash hidder that will force backwards the dirt from the burned powder.

What do not happen with regular cartridges.

Finally, some people used the G3 in places like austral africa where damned thin silicated grounds produces dirt that jammed the FAL, the M-16, and even the AK, not the G3

Well well well, if you want, HK still can add a shutter to protect the ejection port as they did for the G-41 for marketing reasons, and an closure assist device - for silent closure reasons, not like for some others ( black ? ) guns where you have to force the dirt forward to reach firing status lol ! )

The fact is HK stopped roller delayed mechanism for main military offers, just because, and I insist, of the price those fine pieces costs.

HK G-41 is cancelled.....sniffff....

But HK G-3 and 33 are still available. Some special forces of the arabic peninsula uses HK-33 ( without ejection port shutter ), would they do if that gun would be prone to jam ? ( you said sand ? )

That bolt system is exactly the same as HK MP-5 submachine guns, and I never heard anybody say they was unreliable...see how many special forces use them in very very adverse environments.

I got another question asking to myself : What sort of troopers do not take care of the tool their life depends of ? Travelling with an open bolt in adverse environments ??

( remember the movie Full Metall Jacket, men telling their prayers in bed : " My gun is my best friend, etc.." LOL ! )

P.S You've understood, I like very much HK rolled delayed guns LOL !

Edit : Forget to say : the inside body have two rails to force the possible mud in them when bolt system moves forward.

The unique design allows the dirt to sleep with major inconveniance in the empty space betwenn the barrel extension an the bolt carrier, while pushed forward by the strong spring ( only comparable spring strong I could find is the one of the Steyr AUG, wich is reliable proven by other ways and methods - but not so good in my mind )

- No any other locking mechanism allows same spaces, not the rotary bolts with their trunions and pins. -

-- The Sig 55O got a rail dedicated to dirt also, plus the fine feature of rubber lips to seal the mechanism but bolt itself is dirt sensible --

[DanAK47 1]

I would have to agree with Maraudeur. The G3 gets a lot of verbal abuse but you could drop it from an airplane and it would probably still work.

The G3, the AK-47, and the FAL would be my choices. Why?

The G3 is powerful and very, very solid. I just liked the overall feel of it. The sights are not bad. The rear sight is easy to adjust for different ranges but unfortunately it doesn't go up past 400 meters. On the other hand it is heavy and an ergonomic nightmare.

AK-47... Well, because it is a no-BS assault rifle. You can bury it, dig it up a year later and it will still work. The cartridge isn't a high velocity varmint round.

FAL.. Not my favorite but it was worth mentioning. Powerful, accurate, easy to maintain. Good enough for me.

I don't care much for the G36 or M16. Mostly because of the cartridge but there are other reasons. Didn't like the feel of the M16 and it was nothing special to me overall. Good gun, but I liked others better. Haven't had experience with the G36, but I tend to distrust the spage age 5.56x45s that are extremely popular. The G36k looks like a good carbine. I wouldn't choose the G36 for a full sized rifle.

What next, Pistols?

Dan

[Captain 0]

I've heard good things about the FN SLR. The semi version of the FAL. Tried, tested and everyone likes it! The only thing I have against the FAL is the fact that it is almost impossible to control it in full-auto. But other than that, its my favourite.

P.S; I swear by it in OFP Resistance! One shot an the guys dead. Then again, its the same with the G36 I guess.

[Frizbee 0]

Who needs assault rifles? Give me a nice YF-23 Strike Fighter and I'll be happy, even if it means I can't hit a single infantry man running from tree to tree.

[KeeperHET 0]

It's got to be the O.I.C.W. tactical assault rifle/cannon

[Renagade 0]

which is a normal rifle with a rangefinder attached to a grenade launcher and still a prototype yes/no

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's got to be the O.I.C.W. tactical assault rifle/cannon<span id='postcolor'>

i wish there was a barfing smilie

seriously. the first assault rifles off my list are 7.62mm

you just can carry enough ammo.

i'd say the Tar-21 since i have only a limited exp. with rifles:

AK, Galil, M-16/M-4, Tar-21.

what i have about the AK is its sights. bah!

[USSoldier11B 0]

My ultimate goal in life is to have a weapons system named after me.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ July 25 2002,03:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My ultimate goal in life is to have a weapons system named after me. <span id='postcolor'>

I AM a weapons system -- AND I WENT INTO COST OVERRUN!  Heh.

Semper Fi

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I AM a weapons system -- AND I WENT INTO COST OVERRUN! Heh.

<span id='postcolor'>

You are a HUGE nerd.....IRS Ranger.

.... (J/K)

[Matthijs 40]

Bit of a senseless topic, isn't it?

What is best? In what application? Close combat? Special operations? Assault? Assault in rough terrain? Airlift operations? Or maybe defensive action?

And what about price? Are we tax-payers to bleed endlessly for a few rifles? Or do we prefer slightly inferior but considerably cheaper systems, so that it's no problem if someone loses his weapon?

Did it ever occur to anyone that there might be a reason why there are so many systems available on the market today?

[HellToupee 0]

i would have to say ak its reliable it dosnt matter how accurate ur gun is if u cant hit the broad side of a barn its not helping. Ever thought a bad shot would do better with the most inaccurate gun around like a musket cause even though hes not aiming at the target he could still hit . Styer is my close second cause my country uses em.

[B@ZOOkA 0]

i think if you take all aspects of a weapon (prise,acurracy,..and all the aspects compared to the price) together you can say that the ak family was the "best" weapon... its almost 50 years old but only got smaller updates during all the time...and its used everywhere in the world.... if you compare that to the G3 family.... from the basics of the WW2 weapon STG44 (MP44) to the G36 today... hmm... there are large differences.... but thats always about how you interpret "best weapon"

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (B@ZOOkA @ Aug. 18 2002,04:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i think if you take all aspects of a weapon (prise,acurracy,..and all the aspects compared to the price) together you can say that the ak family was the "best" weapon... its almost 50 years old but only got smaller updates during all the time...and its used everywhere in the world.... if you compare that to the G3 family.... from the basics of the WW2 weapon STG44 (MP44) to the G36 today... hmm... there are large differences.... but thats always about how you interpret "best weapon"<span id='postcolor'>

i never understand what you say , you mean that the stg44 is a part of the g3 familly or of the ak familly ?