JUMP please!!

[Zordon 1]

I do think any soldier who can't climb over a shoulder height obstacle shouldn't be in the army...

ye try jumping with full gear on, but i agree in some sense lol.

Also, i can see players abusing this animation to try to avoid bullets those jumps break any realism the game manages to create imo.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Zordon

[Fuse 1]

No need to get touchy, you actually started comparing oranges to potatoes with those examples. Bad analogy sense I guess. You should be able to jump unless the gear you are carrying is too heavy for you to do so and as long jumping actually carries penalties when you perform it. But I think Nod unit already made a good point no need to repeat what he said...

I think it was supposed to be a funny analogy, and I totally get it. Yes, your character would be capable of jumping, but why do you need to? Your character's pants have a fly, you could unzip mid-fight, but it wouldn't be all that useful in Arma.

I just don't see a situation where we need a real "jump" over an improved "vault".

[tamernator 1]

Jump can be realistic if body will stay on the same height and only have impact on the legs + integrated with the fatigue/stamina feature (and ofcourse no shooting while jumping)

The problem with bunny jump in other games occur because when soldier jump his body positioning changes and moves to higher position while in reality when a soldier (with much gear on him) jumps his body stays on the same height and only legs height changes.

Nor body height nor run speed should be affected by jumping = no bunny jump. If someone played Americas Army should understand what i mean , just check any Amerac Army gameplay and jump on youtube to see what i mean.

Edited March 11, 2013 by tamernator

[pathetic_berserker 4]

I think it was supposed to be a funny analogy, and I totally get it. Yes, your character would be capable of jumping, but why do you need to? Your character's pants have a fly, you could unzip mid-fight, but it wouldn't be all that useful in Arma.

I just don't see a situation where we need a real "jump" over an improved "vault".

I supose that question would best be answered by some bastard map maker who sees this response then goes out of way to create the environment. lol.

Honestly though there are probably numerous examples, particularly in user made environs, but not having the function means you never think to use it.

[ImStereotype 1]

Hello!

Great change in animations and in control. Still see some little strange thing in strafing with little steps. It moves too much maybe for me with a little "zoom" movement. But for sure is better than Arma2!

I want to ask you to include the JUMP animation and function!!!

Yes I know this is not BF3 or whatever.. but in reality you can jump. I know that you have a heavy equip with you.. but if you can run why not jump? Even down hill running a good jump can be done.

My concern about the JUMP is because sometimes I want to JUMP over a rock.. or a wall that is perfectly reachable.. but I cannot. That would make the control more fluid for sure!

And not only think about ARMA3 but all the possible mods in future that would benefit the JUMP animation.

Please include it!! You can make the player tired if jump too much or whatever.. but pleas put it.

Thanks and good job!

Bump^

[panimala 25]

Well, if anything I would appreciate a more responsive and fluid vault animation, akin to the one in the current standalone DayZ version, if anyone has followed the dev blog videos.

[byrgesen 1]

Just read the newest dayz sa dev blog and watch the video, can we have a little jumping in ARMA 3 too? I remember there will be a weight system in ARMA3 maybe weight can impact your ability of jumping without so arcade.

Lets call it what it really is mate, vaulting :) Not jumping. Even Rocket calls it vaulting in that video.

I say no, this is an milsim, aka you ALWAYS carry a lot of weight, so one could ask why you would tire yourself so much when you can step over the object or go around it tbh.

Its never been a part of Arma simply because you dont need to jump, and people dont jump on the battlefield IRL. Jumping exposses you to much to make it worth it, and this game is NOT about getting from A-B fast (like all other shooters), this is about tactics and so much more then all other FPS's really.

I know several people in the army and ive yet to hear them tell stories of how they won a battle or training excersize by jumping, its just not needed in this game, coz you would never jump over something on the battlefield and expose your self so much. 99% of the time its far more safe to go around obsticles and use them as cover.

I still dont get how people seriously think you can jump over anything with 30-50kg of gear with you and vaulting is by far more then fitting to simulate the modern day soldier in battle.

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm ambivalent about vaulting/jumping, but I wish I had the ability to scramble up/over little obstacles like walls etc. Anything chest height or lower should be traversable with an appropriate animation I reckon.

[Gunter Severloh 4056]

ShackTac Bunnyhop

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?139593-ShackTac-Bunnyhop

[Bee8190 10]

We should have the ability to jump in over a stuff like in this video -

Skip to 1:15

and also to 1:27

[Frankdatank1218 39]

Jumping (not to be confused with vaulting) is useless in combat (save for bunny hopping herp-derpery which none of us want), the closest thing that is legitimately useful is dive-to-prone, which is still not jumping.

Vaulting serves to work in most situations and individual would think to use jump in most games. The only thing that should be added is the ability to climb over obstacles, even ones a bit taller than the player, like what is featured in ARMA 2's SMK animation mod. It would be great for flanking by getting over walls but being balanced by obviously making you VERY vulnerable while you do it.

[HKFlash 9]

I think it was supposed to be a funny analogy, and I totally get it. Yes, your character would be capable of jumping, but why do you need to? Your character's pants have a fly, you could unzip mid-fight, but it wouldn't be all that useful in Arma.

I just don't see a situation where we need a real "jump" over an improved "vault".

Funny analogy? Whatever. Did you know that in order to join any military force you need to be able to jump (not vault) over a 90cm/1m wall? I know because I did it when I joined the Army. I fact I found myself jumping and vaulting when I was conducting training. Did I just jump like a retard, like you do in video games such as BF3? Of course not.

On Stratis there are not that many places where a jump would actually be useful (at least I did not find any), but with Altis and islands made by modders things may be different.

[batto 17]

Jumping (not to be confused with vaulting) is useless in combat (save for bunny hopping herp-derpery which none of us want)

And in ArmA you spawn directly in combat and spend 100% of time in combat. Oh wait...

[accapella 1]

I think jumping should definitely be added to reach somewhat higher surfaces and to cross drops.

But it should be made in a realistic way, alot of the resident neckbeards here shoot their coffee straight out of their nose at the thought of people bunnyhopping around in an arma 3 game.

The player should be able to jump continuously, just like you can in real life if you want to, but without building up momentum it should cover a lesser distance and end up with lower overall speed than actual running while being very fatiguing. It should also be relatively hard to change the direction of your jump while in the air, a couple of degrees of in flight freedom would probably be great for gameplay purposes.

Jumping while sprinting should result in a longer but less elevating jump.

It's a win-win situation, people can jump around however they want but it wont give them an advantage, just make them look silly and it would make different types of obstacles possible for islands and buildings that may require jumping.

Edit: If not jumping then I'd atleast wish for falling through the air (For now units fall and land in perfect aiming stance) and sliding (as in when your unit slides down a very steep slope which can probably be detected).

Edited March 11, 2013 by Helari

[JdB 151]

I'll just quote myself since this has been discussed forever since the very first release in 2001.

There is no jumping in any ArmA game. Look at combat videos from Afghanistan and Iraq for two days straight and count how many times you see professional soldiers jumping over/across something. The most you'll see is leaping across ditches and stepping/climbing over obstacles. Jumping with at the very least 70+ pounds of equipment strapped to your body isn't the best solution for getting past obstacles. There is a climb-over function for low walls and fences (mostly waist high stuff), but no jumping nor should there ever be since it's completely unrealistic.

Jumping in the rocky mediterranean type environment that ArmA3 has is a surefire way of getting a couple of broken ankles and/or legs.

[Fuse 1]

Not sure what your point about jumping in training is. I said, and I quote, "Yes, your character would be capable of jumping, but why do you need to?"

How often did you find your self jumping while out on a mission? I know it happens, but I've never heard anyone specifically tell a story where they jumped so I have a hard time believing it happens often enough to be worth programming in to Arma. It's kind of like melee kills: I know they happen, but the only guy I know who has killed more than one man by hand was a tunnel rat in Vietnam, so I don't see it as an important feature in a milsim game.

[batto 17]

JdB, ArmA isn't life of US marines in Afghanistan. It's sandbox where you can play death-match in summer clothes with pistol only.

[JdB 151]

JdB, ArmA isn't life of US marines in Afghanistan. It's sandbox where you can play death-match in summer clothes with pistol only.

True it is a sandbox, but the core gameplay "out-of-the-box" isn't anything like that. It's more realism orientated than that. That it can be transformed into what you said shows the versatility of the engine, not necessarily how BIS envisaged their release-day product. That's why jumping the way most people understand it would be contradictary to the ArmA philosophy and including it in the engine even if disabled in the regular gameplay could lead to even easier hacks/exploits especially in MP imo and a degrading of the most evident ArmA selling point: realism that would then be shifted towards other points that make the game more difficult compared to mainstream shooters. If you give in often enough to the casual crowd you end up with just another CoD clone which BIS can't compete with.

Edited March 11, 2013 by JdB

[batto 17]

True it is a sandbox, but the core gameplay "out-of-the-box" isn't anything like that. It's more realism orientated than that. That it can be transformed into what you said shows the versatility of the engine, not necessarily how BIS envisaged their release-day product. That's why jumping the way most people understand it would be contradictary to the ArmA philosophy and including it in the engine even if disabled in the regular gameplay could lead to even easier hacks/exploits especially in MP imo and a degrading of the most evident ArmA selling point: realism that would then be shifted towards other points that make the game more difficult compared to mainstream shooters. If you give in often enough to the casual crowd you end up with just another CoD clone which BIS can't compete with.

Whatever you say.

CoD kiddie performing bunny-hop in CoD:

BF3 herp-derp kiddie bunny-hopping:

This guy will first jump to water because he's no CoD kiddie:

Edited March 11, 2013 by batto

[metalcraze 290]

Good idea. Replace current step over the fence animation with step over the puddle animation. That will work.

[slatts 1978]

Can we actually try to be serious about this?

[Fuse 1]

Whatever you say.

I can't tell which side of the argument you're trying to support. These pics are exactly the kind of "improved vault" many of us (anti-jumpers) are asking for.

[mmaruda 20]

Ok, I will try to make a serious point. First of all, the thing I dislike about the Arma series is the lack "game'y stuff" in it. I understand what Arma is, and how it works, but it could really benefit from some solutions taken from mainstream titles. Controlling your character in Arma was something that many people consider "clunky" at best. Aiming lag, lack of smooth movement, etc. Some things have been improved in A3, but I think BIS can go further.

The main problem are people who claim, that if wee add a cover system, smooth animation, jumping, dual wielding and such, the game will stop being realistic. The thing is, when you go out to the forest with and airsoft gun and a bunch of ASG nuts, you will find, that even though you carry a weapon replica of real weight, a backpack with various stuff, a tactical vest, and you are all geared up to the nose with 30+C in the shade, you can still move, jump over stuff and cling to cover with more ease than in Arma. I have no problem with a jump animation being added, you can jump in RF, if this is a simulator, you should be able to jump too. As for those claiming that the 'vault' function solves all the problems... Well, lets just say it is weird. First of all, you can perform that animation whenever you want, and seeing how the 'v' key can be hit accidentally, Arma becomes a barrel of laugh when someone does it out of the blue in the middle of a firefight. At least the first couple of times, after that it becomes annoying. Another thing is that vaulting allows you to get over a waist-high fence, but not a chest high wall (an I can hoist myself over that, though I am no commando in RL). Another problem becomes visible when you are sprinting and get tho that waist-high fence, you have to stop, hit the 'v' key and wait for the very slow animation to finish (and sometimes it does not get you across the first time), normally you would grab the fence by one hand and jump over.

Now to conclude, my suggestion: jumping would probably not work here, but a set of animations that are triggered by the 'v' key and are context sensitive would. For example, I move slow and face a small fence - standard Arma animation which we have now would do, but if I sprint, the game would recognize that and trigger a Battlefield-like vault, in case of a chest-high wall the character would climb over, and the best part - when there is no obstacle in front of you, no animation would play - that would help avoid idiotic accidental behavior. I know this is brilliant, but I am actually no genius - this solution has been implemented in almost every TPP game since 2006. :cool: This would probably take some effort to so in Arma, but I think it would benefit overall immersion a great deal.

Oh, and while we're at it, why not clinging to cover? Works quite well in Red Orchestra 2 and looks more immerse than standing, facing a wall and leaning. Just my 2 cents. ;)

[HKFlash 9]

Not sure what your point about jumping in training is. I said, and I quote, "Yes, your character would be capable of jumping, but why do you need to?"

Isn't ArmA a title where you try to play like a soldier in real life? All those stances and movements aren't they supposed to provide realism to the game? Ever since I played Operation Flashpoint that I looked at this series as tactical *realistic game. Why shouldn't you be able to jump if soldiers in real life actually do it?

And why would my character need to jump? Do I need to draw you a picture for you to understand that? A soldier fights on any terrain, be it a simple flat road to a rugged hill. That's why jumping is useful, the world is full of obstacles. Imagine a long trench. How would you get through it? Go around? Of course you could do that, but when you are under fire that's not very practical is it? Now you could argue this kind of obstacles don't exist in ARMA3 but the community will eventually provide this content. There's also low height walls, where it is more pratical to jump than vault. I could go on but I won't. My point is made.

How often did you find your self jumping while out on a mission? I know it happens, but I've never heard anyone specifically tell a story where they jumped so I have a hard time believing it happens often enough to be worth programming in to Arma. It's kind of like melee kills: I know they happen, but the only guy I know who has killed more than one man by hand was a tunnel rat in Vietnam, so I don't see it as an important feature in a milsim game.

What? Lol. Just because no one told a story doesn't mean it didnt happen? How is this relevant? I never did that lower prone stance in real life yet it is in game. Melee kills are a completly different task. It is much much more difficult to implement this although it depends on how you far you want to go with it.

Two examples for me to get my point across:

a) Simple melee: You have a bayonet saber you can attach to you rifle. You cycle to it like you do to cycle fire modes. Press fire and the character will perform an animation where he uses it to stab an enemy.

b) Advanced melee: You sneak behind an enemy, grab him with one hand to prevent him shouting and alerting anyone nearby. With the other hand you stab him in the back, killing him silently.

Option a) is easy to implement. Look at the hatches in DayZ for example. Option b) would require an overhaul to the animation system to prevent clipping and other issues. It also takes alot of time to produce which could be spent by the development team on other higher priority features.

Also melee kills and melee combat still exist as of today. I remember the British fighting hand-to-hand combat in Iraq back in 2003.

*within common sense of course

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

I can't tell which side of the argument you're trying to support. These pics are exactly the kind of "improved vault" many of us (anti-jumpers) are asking for.

To me those pictures show soldiers jumping, not vaulting. I undertand vault is an action where you jump over an obstacle but you use one or both of your hands to help you do it. But since English is not my original language....

[Psychomorph 1]

An ex special force person, who is an official advisor of a game in development, said that during operations they used to jump all the time, in full gear, over dead bodies, and smaller obstacles and such.

Fact is, if you want to get over a smaller obstacle while running away from bad guys, you do not want to stop and "V" over it and than start running again, nuh-uh. Solution is, if you Turbo/Run "V" makes you leap (including over gaps, Run has a weaker leap due to less speed), at the slower paces you stop and step over the stuff like it is now. Very realistic and logical.