French in Mali

[MissionCreep 12]

Does anyone else think this has been too easy, and the Islamists and their Tuareg supporters have just melted away into the desert or into the lawless areas of neighboring countries until the French leave?

[scrim 1]

Nah, it feels a lot like the initial invasion in Afghanistan, i.e. badly trained nutters who can't match anyone with decent training.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

People of Timbuktu seem relieved - some of them only had 1 hand left to wave at the French! Gives me the shivers just thinking bout it! Excellent job by the Frech so far.

[slatts 1978]

At least the French will know from Afghanistan, just because you take a place without firing a shot doesn't mean you've won. They're off hiding somewhere. So the French'll stay and not let them stroll back in. So I don't expect it will be "France's Afghanistan/Iraq" as some papers say.

[MissionCreep 12]

At least the French will know from Afghanistan, just because you take a place without firing a shot doesn't mean you've won. They're off hiding somewhere. So the French'll stay and not let them stroll back in. So I don't expect it will be "France's Afghanistan/Iraq" as some papers say.

You would think so ... but the Americans didn't seem to learn much from Vietnam when it came to Afghanistan. And they are bedevilled in Afghanistan with what on the surface appear to be very similar problems. Intimidated population, enemy sanctuary in a neighbouring country, corruption/coercion/infiltration of the local government, inability to tell friend from foe, ineffectual local military, inability to connect with the locals .... etc the list goes on and the rot runs deep. The difference here appears to be that the Islamists seem to be genuinely unpopular in Mali (mostly the result of their brutal and idiotic behavior ). Also, most Malians seem to speak French which can only help in communication between the locals and the boys from France.

Edited February 5, 2013 by MissionCreep

[dunedain 48]

French minister of Defence Jean Yves Le Drian reported to the press that hundreds of islamists were killed after three weeks of fighting. It's hardly no shot fired. source

Moreover there are rumors that Qatar, which has been known for funding and providing weapons weapons to jihadist organizations such as AQMI, MUJAO and Ansar Dine for quite a while already, sent two planes to the north of Mali to help evacuate some of the remaining islamic forces.

I find it hard to see Mali become another Afghanistan as the population there speak a western language "French", are much more open to western culture than Afghans and hate jihadist's guts. Especially after seeing them destroying Timbuktu's holy shrines as well as thousands of ancient manuscripts. There are chances the Berber/Arab minority from the North could be slaughtered after French departure. Good riddance, it's been the other way around for long enough.

Edited February 6, 2013 by dunedain

[jefferspang 2]

I thought that this SOFREP article explains it pretty well.

The terrain is nowhere near as rough as Afghanistans. Furthermore, the jihadist/islamist won't be able to blend into the population as effectively as the Taliban does in A'stan.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I thought that this SOFREP article explains it pretty well.

The terrain is nowhere near as rough as Afghanistans. Furthermore, the jihadist/islamist won't be able to blend into the population as effectively as the Taliban does in A'stan.

True. Jihadists don't have the support that Pashtun Talibans have in Astan, apart in the Northern part where (some of) the Tuaregs do support them, and French troops have a good knowledge of the region. But obviously the war isn't over, 4 000 French soldiers are on the area and will have to fight in the mountainous part near Kidal (north east on the image satellite image here).

[slatts 1978]

French minister of Defence Jean Yves Le Drian reported to the press that hundreds of islamists were killed after three weeks of fighting. It's hardly no shot fired. source

Moreover there are rumors that Qatar, which has been known for funding and providing weapons weapons to jihadist organizations such as AQMI, MUJAO and Ansar Dine for quite a while already, sent two planes to the north of Mali to help evacuate some of the remaining islamic forces.

I find it hard to see Mali become another Afghanistan as the population there speak a western language "French", are much more open to western culture than Afghans and hate jihadist's guts. Especially after seeing them destroying Timbuktu's holy shrines as well as thousands of ancient manuscripts. There are chances the Berber/Arab minority from the North could be slaughtered after French departure. Good riddance, it's been the other way around for long enough.

Where I'm coming from is that there were reports of Timbuktu being taken without a shot fired, but that doesn't mean they are gone. But you're right they are killing the rebels and have the pop. support, so all the hippy media talk of France's Afghan is BS.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Where I'm coming from is that there were reports of Timbuktu being taken without a shot fired, but that doesn't mean they are gone. But you're right they are killing the rebels and have the pop. support, so all the hippy media talk of France's Afghan is BS.

Yes, but Gao fight was quiet intense, and isn't completly over yet. Moreover, other African troops are joining, particulary Chadian ones, who are well trained troops used to fight in the desert and against Jihadists.

[Sakai 1]

With pretty funny looking Army ((Chad))

Hopefully French won't be bad like in Vietnam lol

[slatts 1978]

Yes, but Gao fight was quiet intense, and isn't completly over yet. Moreover, other African troops are joining, particulary Chadian ones, who are well trained troops used to fight in the desert and against Jihadists.

Likewise I expect France and some other Euro countries to train the Malian Army, We got a request to send some troops over to do such a thing.

[MissionCreep 12]

Moreover there are rumors that Qatar, which has been known for funding and providing weapons weapons to jihadist organizations such as AQMI, MUJAO and Ansar Dine for quite a while already, sent two planes to the north of Mali to help evacuate some of the remaining islamic forces.

I'm sure the Americans/NATO have eyes-in-the-sky (eg AWACS) that can track any transports flying into or out of the backcountry of the Mahgreb. So either the rumours are false (Islamist bravado) or the Allies are aware of this, but to think they took no action doesn't seem rational.

Likewise I expect France and some other Euro countries to train the Malian Army, We got a request to send some troops over to do such a thing.

Seems like the distraction of a military coup by the Malian Army is what allowed the Islamists to take over the north of the country. Something has to change is Mali ever hopes to remain stable.

Edited February 6, 2013 by MissionCreep

[sudayev 27]

Has anyone seen how military of Mali train with making fake pew pew sounds,no wonder the French had to come.

Meanwhile, an old 72 year old illiterate man did a tremendous thing by saving a part of Malian cultural heritage, the manuscripts of Timbuktu from falling into hands of islamic savages. Despite being an illiterate person he knew what kind of treasure he just saved, an everyday hero!

http://blog.aarp.org/2013/02/05/how-abba-alhadi-72-saved-some-of-the-worlds-rarest-manuscripts/

Some portion of the historic papers documenting the history and achievements of great Malinese Empire were destroyed or damaged, these savages also destroyed two Sufi tombs acknowledged by the UNESCO as World Heritage treasures. In XXI century they claimed that such - in fact islamic architecture is a slander to allah and shall be razed to the ground.

This is sad what's going on in this country :|

[batto 17]

Has anyone seen how military of Mali train with making fake pew pew sounds,no wonder the French had to come.

I believe this was pre-scripted for public.

[Beagle 684]

Forget about NATO in this case, the only nation currently willing to lend a hand to france is germany with a small contigent of 150 men, mainly medical and logistics. France and NATO is and always was a bit difficult relation.

[JdB 151]

Has anyone seen how military of Mali train with making fake pew pew sounds,no wonder the French had to come.

Every military on earth does rehearsals and dry-runs before practicing with live rounds. If they didn't, there'd be a lot more fatalities. And more importantly to the bean counters, it saves loads of money.

[MissionCreep 12]

Forget about NATO in this case, the only nation currently willing to lend a hand to france is germany with a small contigent of 150 men, mainly medical and logistics. France and NATO is and always was a bit difficult relation.

Cameron said SAS have been sent to Mali. Canadian C-17s have been flying in gear for France. Canadian JTF2 (special forces, they were also in Libya with the SAS and SBS) are there but their mission (the Canadian government never confirms or denies JTF2 operations) is to protect the Canadian Embassy in Bamako. Canada is a fellow member of La Francophonie.

[.Taffy 10]

This article explores the possibility of this becoming another Afghanistan, from the point of view that it won't.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21299153

The US led invasion of Afghanistan was widely supported in the wake of 9/11, perhaps the long term situation would have been better if Western forces had pulled out once Al qaeda's foothold had been dislodged. The French Defence Minister recently said that they intended most of the 4,000 troops to pull out in March, which doesn't sound like a commitment to overseeing the long term stabilisation of the country even if everything were to go perfectly to plan. This would set it, quite starkly, apart from the strategy pursued in Afghanistan.

[slatts 1978]

They're committing to the country after March by letting Mali and the African troops take care of it, France and the EU plan on training the Mali army similar to Somalia. We were already ask to send over instructors.

[sudayev 27]

Every military on earth does rehearsals and dry-runs before practicing with live rounds. If they didn't, there'd be a lot more fatalities. And more importantly to the bean counters, it saves loads of money.

Every military in Africa - if they can't afford blank rounds.

[jefferspang 2]

^ what he said. Even if the pew pew sounds funny, I'd prefer to save thousands of $$USD by not buying blank rounds for essentially achieving the same objective and it makes sense for countries that don't have the luxury of having a high mil budget.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

France is there just for natural ressources ... pure imperialist goals ... jihadists and Al Qaeda stories are just for media consumption !

[mrcash2009 0]

The mount of events that are extremist based and the ever so well placed tag line/phrase "group with links to Al Qaeda".

I suspect anything deemed extreme will have links to Al Qaeda even wing suit proximity flying, taking a sh*t will soon have links to them as well I bet.

[batto 17]

France is there just for natural ressources ... pure imperialist goals ... jihadists and Al Qaeda stories are just for media consumption !

I'd say it was good opportunity for army exercise. But well, they're doing good job for the Mali and for the world there, aren't they?