Infantry Combat-Boring and Unrealistic?

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

Am I the only one who find infantry combat in vanilla arma 2 (and OFP and aa1) to be pretty bland, predictable, and unrealistic?

Ive found most/all infantry fights to go like this:

The two sides approach each other either in a line or wedge (this is unrealistic, as any patrol would have a loose formation. Probably something like a box)

Everybody immediately goes prone and a few guys start shooting, while many just look around and do nothing.

One or both sides start crawling to each other through open terrain, with no flanking, support fire, bounding tactics, or even cover usage.

Notably, the ai really sucks. Thats probably the biggest crux. But theres some things which are just odd. The formations are one. Theres no good formation for covering a large area on a simple patrol. The formations feel like a civil war game or a ww1 trench assault. The gameplay is also very unfluid (is that a word?). This is most notable in close quarters. Theres also a very distinct lack of cover. This makes defense placement hard on a somewhat side note, somewhat related note. Foxholes are badly needed.

To conclude

1. Am I the only who notices this?

2. Are there any mods which /fix/ this.

3. Any other thoughts?

[froggyluv 2136]

Hmm, I feel that is how the AI used to be -are you using latest patches? If you compare AI in at recent patch grade to say Arma 1 it's night and day. Also, have you tried TPWCAS mod? I really couldn't imagine playing without it.

[Sakowski 1]

Latest patches indeed but ASR_AI and other addons that improve the AI?

Why playing on vanilla when ACE makes it way better...

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

I think the last time I played was about a year ago or so

What is IF-Lib44 like btw, in regards to simple combat? How similar is it too arma as a whole as well?

Edited December 31, 2012 by THEBLITZ6794

[Joe98 92]

In real life you have a squad on patrol and bumps an enemy squad.

If neither side has any support they will exchange a few shots and both bug out.

If one side has another squad nearby that squad will typically try to flank the enemy.

If both squads have a friendy squad nearby both try to do the same thing - Once the 2 commanders work this out then again fire a few shots and bug out.

Close infantry combat can be everything from scary to boring. The game does this very well.

The solution is that every patrol is scored with points of some sort.

So, 2 squads of equal size on patrol, they bump, exchange a few shots and bug out. Both sides gain points for taking prisoners and killing the enemy. It is likely to end in a draw which is authentic.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Joe98

[iceman77 18]

So which game would you like the AI to be derived from or to portray (besides vbs)? I'm only asking because you make it sound as if A2 has the worst AI in the history of shooters/sims. I'll take Armas quirky AI, over "hogans alley" style AI jumping out from around corners anyday etc etc.

[froggyluv 2136]

Arma 2 AI is simply the best unscripted, large scale AI in any game Ive played -period. This includes VBS2. Remember the TS hasn't played in over a year and the Beta upgrades + excellent mods makes it unrivaled.

[mihikle 2]

You said "I think the last time I played was about a year ago or so" so I do not really think you are qualified to comment on any of the games features.

And why would you play AI vs AI? When it's a team of real players against the AI they seem to be a lot more clever and try to counter what you do. I was playing Insurgency only yesterday and we were hiding behind a downed chopper and the AI suppressed us from one side and flanked round the other. I have to agree with froggyluv, I think the AI in Arma 2 are brilliant. The only criticisms I would have is movement in an Urban Area, they are essentially blind at night without NVG's and reaction to suppression as standard.

[roguetrooper 2]

Arma is an hundreds square kilometres open world. You can place AI anywhere on the map and it's able to handle enemies without scripting or whatever. Sure, some behaviour -even group coordinated ones- is strange and maybe sometimes under certain circumstances stupid (or at least different from what you would expect from a RL trained combat group). In the current state at least there is nothing to complain about the internal AI behaviour (though player/modder scripted behaviour to force AI to do something can be quite tricky and aaarrrgh).

Since it's a military simulation, it does it's job hundred times better than any of those arcadish kiddy tube maps like Call of Battlefield (mkay which are not meant to be simulations).

[znooptokkie 14]

I think the last time I played was about a year ago or so...

I suggest you install the latest patches and beta patches and give it a try. AI is doing better than ever before especially with AI mods like ASR_AI and ACE mod.

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

In real life you have a squad on patrol and bumps an enemy squad.

If neither side has any support they will exchange a few shots and both bug out.

If one side has another squad nearby that squad will typically try to flank the enemy.

If both squads have a friendy squad nearby both try to do the same thing - Once the 2 commanders work this out then again fire a few shots and bug out.

Close infantry combat can be everything from scary to boring. The game does this very well.

The solution is that every patrol is scored with points of some sort.

So, 2 squads of equal size on patrol, they bump, exchange a few shots and bug out. Both sides gain points for taking prisoners and killing the enemy. It is likely to end in a draw which is authentic.

Lets say one platoon is supposed to take a position from another then

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

Alright Im playing again with current patch. Its a bit better but still terrible imo. I got guys refusing to heal while others get stuck in one spot on air

[metalcraze 290]

They don't refuse to heal. They wait until there is no immediate enemy threat anymore. Would you run to heal a guy that just has been shot? You wanted 'realistic' - here you have it.

while others get stuck in one spot on air

But you wanted the bounding overwatch? Now you don't?

Edited January 3, 2013 by metalcraze

[chrisb 196]

Must say I don't have a problem with the ai, its whatever you make of it. There are lots of mods and mixes of mods or parts from mods (pbo's) you can use to give you

(read the details below the vid)..

[scrim 1]

Well of course the AI won't behave as "good" as in let's say BF3, where most of the AI behaviour is heavily scripted and wouldn't work taken out of its context, and the terrain available for it to manouver on in the best of cases isn't even 0.0000000001% as big as the smallest terrain available to it in Arma.

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

They don't refuse to heal. They wait until there is no immediate enemy threat anymore. Would you run to heal a guy that just has been shot? You wanted 'realistic' - here you have it.

They literally stand next to the guy and do nothing, even if there are no enemies nearby

But you wanted the bounding overwatch? Now you don't?

no, they refuse to move, getting stuck in one spot, even if theres no enemy and theyre not covering anyone. theyre just standing there looking in the wrong direction

Well of course the AI won't behave as "good" as in let's say BF3, where most of the AI behaviour is heavily scripted and wouldn't work taken out of its context, and the terrain available for it to manouver on in the best of cases isn't even 0.0000000001% as big as the smallest terrain available to it in Arma.

fair enough point

[max power 21]

They literally stand next to the guy and do nothing, even if there are no enemies nearby

no, they refuse to move, getting stuck in one spot, even if theres no enemy and theyre not covering anyone. theyre just standing there looking in the wrong direction

fair enough point

Your experience is not the same as mine. What is your frame rate like? Low frame rates can cause bad AI behaviour.

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

Your experience is not the same as mine. What is your frame rate like? Low frame rates can cause bad AI behaviour.

Not sure the number but its at least 30. I dont notice any sluggishness and I play low settings

Im playing chesty puller with no mods and its certainly a lot better than it used to be

Edited January 3, 2013 by THEBLITZ6794

[SavageCDN 231]

As mentioned you need to play with some mods to really improve the AI experience:

#1: use the latest beta patch

Mods you should use IMO:

• 
  
• @ACE (and it's required mods) although this is not for everyone
  
• @ASR_AI
  
• @dapman_auto (fixes your medic issue)
  
• @heli_extras (AI chopper control)
  
• @tpwcas (adds ability to suppress to units - AI and players or just AI)
  

Really ASR_AI and TWPCAS combined with the latest beta patch - you will see a huge difference!!

[Whiskey Tango 10]

Arrowhead and line are probably the two most used formations to get into contact with the enemy.

Box formations are a thing of the past since the introduction of the machinegun.

[THEBLITZ6794 10]

Im installing asr_ai, tpwcas, and all around defense. Any other recommendations (besides ACE)? Also, will these mods cause compatibility issues for missions not designed for them?

[SavageCDN 231]

Also, will these mods cause compatibility issues for missions not designed for them?

ASR_AI and/or TPWCAS might if the mission is dependent for example on an enemy unit staying in one spot and not moving even when under fire.. so be aware of that.. but most missions are fine in my experience. Also make sure you read the docs for both mods and config the .hpp file to your liking (arma2install\userconfig folder)

[metalcraze 290]

They literally stand next to the guy and do nothing, even if there are no enemies nearby

What do you mean nearby? 10 meters?

They will always heal when they deem it to be safe - which is any time there's no more shooting.

no, they refuse to move, getting stuck in one spot, even if theres no enemy and theyre not covering anyone. theyre just standing there looking in the wrong direction

I don't know man. I don't have such behavior. They always move in combat and rather intelligently.

Never have them getting stuck in one place.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Sure ArmA2 AI isn't perfect and has its flaws, but most of the people complaining about unresponsive AI do have weak CPU.

[iceman77 18]

Sure ArmA2 AI isn't perfect and has its flaws, but most of the people complaining about unresponsive AI do have weak CPU.

Hmmm, that's not entirely true. I've complained about AI being stupid, unresponsive. My cpu is plenty fine, and I run the game smooth as glass. While it may depend on the cpu to a certain extent, it also depends on the environment they're in and what you're expecting them to do.