My work is being illegally sold on World Zombie.ru

[-martin- 10]

I saw on the website also Panthera, Lingor, Namalsk, Fallujah. People have no regards and concerns about IP rights of other people.

I can understand how you feel. Don't let these things drag you down though. :239:

Thanks. I guess I should let the authors of those islands know too. Since this company is based in the UK, they are in reach and we can sue them. I will tell this to BIS too.

[.kju 3245]

Maybe I am missing something, but this seems just an average server hoster.

They just offer dayZ servers - with and without addons. They charge for the server, not for the addons.

[[frl]myke 14]

I think it's not that easy, .kju. They advertise with those islands and with advertising something you do hope to raise your revenue. And there the problem starts. It's not the same level like the russian guy but it shouldn't be quitely tolerated either. Maybe a sending a friendly Email would be a good start in this case.

[colosseum 34]

Good luck, I hate situations like this...

[R0adki11 3949]

Myke;2260855']I think it's not that easy' date=' .kju. They advertise with those islands and with advertising something you do hope to raise your revenue. And there the problem starts. It's not the same level like the russian guy but it shouldn't be quitely tolerated either. Maybe a sending a friendly Email would be a good start in this case.[/quote']

An email would be a good idea initially, does BIS have any official standing over this? As its simple not fair to the community and its island/addon makers, if hosting companies are making money from peoples work :(

[.kju 3245]

So you have to start contact all server hosts that offers ACE or other mods.

Sorry this is way off from any abuse and off from reality.

If you want go zealous and make sure server companies no longer offer mods support for arma, go ahead.

[max power 21]

Hmmm, why would anyone force the ACE devs to contact people they don't want to contact? Disappointing strawman argument, kju. However, if the ACE devs decided that they don't want their addons associated with revenue gaining activities, then I would support them in any way I could.

[PuFu 4600]

;2260936']So you have to start contact all server hosts that offers ACE or other mods.

Sorry this is way off from any abuse and off from reality.

If you want go zealous and make sure server companies no longer offer mods support for arma' date=' go ahead.[/quote']

There is one thing for a server provider to say: dedicated game server supporting community made addons, and another saying installed x,y,z addons. And it is not semantics. I don't understand how you can't see that.

[Guest]

If my memory serves me right Icebreakr was already in contact with that serverhost about his maps. Maybe you can sent him a PM and ask how he sorted things out.

[derdoe 10]

@Martin: Glad that youtube has finally acted, a small victory :)

@all others: To put some things straight:

As far as i understand, Martin does not have any problem with server communities using Taviana that are open for everyone to join and that are funded via donations and the funds are directly used to keep the server running and nothing beyond that. He is happy that people are using his work and the only way to have MP communities is by having available servers and servers have to be paid. And i think, no addon maker in general has any problem with this.

What bothers Martin though is that someone makes money out of his free work to put it into his own pockets, by advertising with Martin's island and by asking people to pay money to get access to the addons themselves that are available for free. Martin made the addon for the community to enjoy and not for some coward that thinks he can make money of things that are intended to be enjoyed by everyone for free. The other issue is that these people that stole his work have modified it without his consent so that people could not just go and download Taviana somewhere else because they need the slightly modified version. Thats why people are forced into paying to get access to the worldzombie.ru servers.

I hope that makes some issues more clear.

Edited December 5, 2012 by derdoe

[sprocker 1]

Martin, this is a terrible situation, my condolences...

[iceman77 18]

How do you know the people are paying specifically to play your island? What if they're just paying clan dues? And if they modified your island for private clan games, and not attempting to release the modded version to the public I fail to see the problem.

If the above are problems... then I guess we got a whole lot of problems within the community. Do you know how many clans charge clan dues? And how many clans edit content (of any kind) for their own personal use? I mean.. lets take away all of the clans that use A) modified addons and B) charge clan dues... I think that would thin the population out quite a bit.

What's really funny, is this whole discussion reminds me of another thread, about an sqf encryptor. The OP of that thread was getting blasted by some of the very people in this thread... apparently because it wasn't an commuity approved tool, because it would prevent the community from being able to break down his mission and take a look at / take scripts.

So the sqf encryptor is a bad tool? But it's not okay for a clan to charge clan dues just because they use a certain addon? Or maybe because they edited an addon for private clan use?

haha, seems some of the commmunity picks and chooses which form of "stealing work" is okay or not okay...

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------

@Martin: Glad that youtube has finally acted, a small victory :)

@all others: To put some things straight:

As far as i understand, Martin does not have any problem with server communities using Taviana that are open for everyone to join and that are funded via donations and the funds are directly used to keep the server running and nothing beyond that. He is happy that people are using his work and the only way to have MP communities is by having available servers and servers have to be paid. And i think, no addon maker in general has any problem with this.

What bothers Martin though is that someone makes money out of his free work to put it into his own pockets, by advertising with Martin's island and by asking people to pay money to get access to the addons themselves that are available for free. Martin made the addon for the community to enjoy and not for some coward that thinks he can make money of things that are intended to be enjoyed by everyone for free. The other issue is that these people that stole his work have modified it without his consent so that people could not just go and download Taviana somewhere else because they need the slightly modified version. Thats why people are forced into paying to get access to the worldzombie.ru servers.

I hope that makes some issues more clear.

And how do you or martin know they are putting the "donation" money into their own pockets? It would be unwise to make a scene about this without knowing facts... I mean did you actually witness the guy putting the doanation money into his pocket? Did he tell you he was stealing the donation money for himself? That's what's wrong with my country atm, people go around assuming and making up their own ways/laws as they go. Also, please link me to the site which states that people are paying dues to have access to any certain addon. I would like to read this.

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:05 ----------

Myke;2260855'] They advertise with those islands and with advertising something you do hope to raise your revenue.

So I guess any clan advertising Arma2:CO on their front page is wrong then? Since BI clearly doesn't support making any private revenue off of their product without permission? (including clan dues apparently from the looks of this thread). I mean' date=' do they actually say " pay us to play the island addon"? or is it just a still image on there webpage?

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ----------

I saw on the website also Panthera, Lingor, Namalsk, Fallujah. People have no regards and concerns about IP rights of other people.

I can understand how you feel. Don't let these things drag you down though. :239:

So what are mods/addons for? To stare at? And just because they use mods and charge clan dues do not make them in the wrong.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Iceman77

[max power 21]

haha, seems some of the commmunity picks and chooses which form of "stealing work" is okay or not okay...

Maybe you could read the thread you hope to contribute to.

-Martin- specifically said he doesn't want his addon associated with revenue gaining activities in his license, so who gives a rat's ass what the clan dues or other charges are for? It says distinctly... but, it's also obvious this case is not simply for clan dues, so maybe READ THE THREAD before thinking you have the answer. Thanks.

[Polaris 1]

Martin I wish you the best of luck in removing all illegal use of your work, you have been placed into a terrible situation by criminals and I feel for you deeply. You must not forget the thousands of people who have and still do play on your map and absolutely adore it; you have brought joy to a lot of people so please don't give up a hobby that you obviously love and are extremely talented at because of a few despicable individuals! All you can do in situations like these is persevere! Good luck and stay positive, all you have to do is see the number of replies and views to this thread, and your full PM inbox, to know how much people care about your work in this community!

[iceman77 18]

Maybe you could read the thread you hope to contribute to.

-Martin- specifically said he doesn't want his addon associated with revenue gaining activities in his license, so who gives a rat's ass what the clan dues or other charges are for? It says distinctly... but, it's also obvious this case is not simply for clan dues, so maybe READ THE THREAD before thinking you have the answer. Thanks.

Let me backup a bit and say that I'm sorry martin is upset. I'm just trying to look at things realistically.Also...

I did read the thread. I think most addons say the same thing. So lets go round up every addon (that's used by clans who charge dues) that says something to the effect of "...no revenue generation of any sort...". We'd be up for days sorting through the list. imo, the revenue isn't directly linked to the addon. That's all I'm saying.

So the person runs a clan who:

A: Charges clan dues (or optional donations)

B: Plays Arma2 & Uses addons

So basically, since most addons and/or mods have this same stipulations/disclaimer/eula... that means any given clan or organization can do one or the other (either A or B, but not both). So if you charge clan dues, you're basically not allowed to use any addons or one might even go so far as to say 'you're not allowed to play the game itself' (since no revenue generating activity without permission)

As far as the clan editing the island (someone elses work) for their own personal use, I don't see any problem. Again, we could chase this issue through hundreds of addons. It's also not a nice thing for them to delete martin's thread and ban him. On the flip side, maybe that's something that could have been taken care of in PMs rather than a message board, and this whole thing may not even be happening. Instead of Martin coming here upset, his chances to resolve the issue would have been greater had he used some tact inside a PM to the leader/admin.

note: I'm not judging, I'm seriously trying to look at this issue in a realistic way.

regards,

***1cem@n***

Edited December 8, 2012 by Iceman77

[[frl]myke 14]

@Iceman77

The clans i know do charge their members only as much to pay the rented servers. It is simple math there: cost of server / members = monthly fee to pay. The outcome is +-0 exactly. No one earns money there.

This is common practice and of course completely legal. Also the members do not pay to play a certain mission or with this and that addon but which addons are used is discussed and decided through the clan.

A lot of clans do run a public server alongside the clanserver but those are always free of charge and open for everyone.

Opposite to this, those people we're discussing here do not run a clan. They intend to make personal profit from it. They don't have members and charge them to pay the monthly costs of the servers. They charge everyone, making benefit for their own wallet.

Hope you see the difference:

- charging a fee to pay monthly costs = good

- charging a fee to make benefit = bad

[iceman77 18]

Okay. Can you provide a link to where it says something to that effect? That, everyone is paying to play the addon? I don't mean paying for server access, but to pay for the actual addon. If so I apologize... I was mistaken.

[[frl]myke 14]

Okay. Can you provide a link to where it says something to that effect? That, everyone is paying to play the addon? I don't mean paying for server access, but to pay for the actual addon. If so I apologize... I was mistaken.

I fail to believe that someone can really not see the issues. People should pay to play on a server which uses Taviana island. It doesn't even matter for the community addons, even if there were no community addons involved, the BIS EULA for ArmA 2 already prohibits the commercial use of the game itself. As long you charge only to pay the monthly costs for renting a server, nothings wrong. As soon you intend to gain more money than you would need to pay the server rent, the moment you intend to make profit, it is wrong.

Edited December 8, 2012 by [FRL]Myke
Removed insulting parts

[iceman77 18]

whoa whoa... I didn't ask you for insults. It's a shame how people can't even use tact in a debate and/or a conversation. Instead they throw out insults. But yeah, whos to say how much the server costs/costed. No worries. Take care.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Iceman77

[[frl]myke 14]

whoa whoa... I didn't ask you for insults. It's a shame how people can't even use tact in a debate and/or a conversation. Instead they throw out insults. No worries. Take care.

You're right, i'm sorry. Edited post to remove insulting parts.

[-martin- 10]

Hi Iceman77, let me quickly narrow things down for you..

How do you know the people are paying specifically to play your island?

As Max Powers said, perhaps you could read the thread you hope to contribute to or debate.

Regarding Worldzbmbie:

If you read the thread carefully, you will find out three facts:

1) My island is the only island on the server.

2) Dayz Mod with a new UI is the only mod on the server.

3) People have to pay to get access to the server the server.

Answer: Absolutely basic money making scheme/people are paying specifically to play on my island and DayZ mod.

Regarding Vilaers:

If you visit the site http://www.vilayer.com/ you will find out three facts:

1) It is a server hosting company, not a clan.

2) A server can be purchased with Taviana bundled in to the package.

3) People purchase servers/or server slots there.

Answer: By bundling Taviana in to the package they are using it as a fee tool to gain more customers, by having it pre-installed.

And how do you or martin know they are putting the "donation" money into their own pockets?

Because of what [FRL]Myke said, and also because I’ve had a donate button on my website for 3 years and basically didn’t get jack …. :smile:

As far as the clan editing the island (someone elses work) for their own personal use, I don't see any problem.

You don’t need to see anything at all about editing someone else’s work; the fact is that addon makers are producing free content for you and they decide how their content will be used, not you or anyone else regardless of your opinion. If you want someone to edit addons make addons yourself and you will be able to decide what you do with them.

I don’t allow this, reason being - I don’t what 50 different versions of my island out there, modified to a point where it doesn’t even have the basic feel that I intended it to have.

maybe that's something that could have been taken care of in PMs rather than a message board,

Yep, and my proof against their legitimacy would be that they didn’t reply to my PM. By starting a thread and them deleting it after 5 minutes without leaving a reply or PM for me I have proved their unwillingness cooperate.

And I am not upset by the way, the reason why I started this thread is to make this issue known and sorted out, because I am not the only one that is having problems with this, and because I’m trying to help the community and BIS. Remember that when most addon makers leave us, this forum will be empty as well as the servers, and you will most likely be gone too with your opinion about editing other peoples work.

I don't mean paying for server access, but to pay for the actual addon.

By having to pay for a server on which this addon is present (modified version to be precise), you are paying for access to the addon, and the addon is being used a marketing tool too.

Thank you for your attention,

Best regards

Edited December 8, 2012 by -Martin-

[max power 21]

As far as the clan editing the island (someone elses work) for their own personal use, I don't see any problem. Again, we could chase this issue through hundreds of addons.

Well then I entreat you to release your work under a share and share alike + derivatives license. For others who disagree, fortunately there are other licensing options.

[PuFu 4600]

@iceman

regarding Intelectual Property: you are saying that personal edits are fine. Well, personal edits are fine (as in tolerated, not allowed) as long as those are personal, as in for one person. Besides, reverse engineers is prohibited (even if it isn't the case here).

[dmarkwick 261]

Might be worth getting hold of this edited version and putting it up somewhere for free download. What's good for the goose has to be good for the gander right? :)

[argument 51]

Might be worth getting hold of this edited version and putting it up somewhere for free download. What's good for the goose has to be good for the gander right? :)

This edited version is not better. In cities reduced texture homes to improve performance.