Any official word on pathfinding yet?

[Tolmos 1]

So I got the game the moment it released, and I have to say that mechanics wise I am loving it. However, I had to shelf the game temporarily until a fix for the unit pathfinding came out. The frustration of losing units in situations where it was really unnecessary (particularly because my walruses were out doing donuts in a field, making sweet love to rocks or headbutting trees) started to turn me off from the game, and I wanted to take a step back as to not get the wrong first impressions. The other bugs seem minor enough that they really don't bother me at all- it's just the pathfinding that is pretty game breaking for me. I have to rely on my AI units so much that I need to know they'll actually do more than just sacrifice my walruses to video game gods without even trying to help.

I've seen a lot of player chatter here and on steam about it, but I haven't noticed an official response of "Yea, we see this and we're gonna take a look at whats up", so I wanted to pop here and find out if anyone else had. It would definitely make me feel a lot better knowing a fix is in the works, cause I could easily see this being my favorite game once it works properly!

Edited October 1, 2012 by Tolmos
grammatical error

[kraxous 1]

Same here. I had a problem where my Manta(s) wont attack the turrets. They just sit there until destroyed and that really pee'd me off. Same for Walruses, they will come under enemy fire from enemy units/structures and will take the heat until destroyed. A smart move I played about half way through the tutorial was sending my units on an 'AI-Set Mission' where basically I go for something to eat and sit downstairs for a little while and my units automatically do everything. Everything was swell until I returned to see my units ramming up tree's on the way back to dock with the carrier... I lost one by him falling off a cliff? -_-

So yeah, I don't blame you for shelfing it.

- Joe.

EDIT: P.S. Welcome to the forums! :D

[Daeion 1]

I had to manually kill one of my Walrus units yesterday because it drove over a destroyed gun encampment and it was stuck. Didn't have the manta-hook back then so all I could do was shoot it down with my own units...

1 walrus, 1 armor MK2, 1 laser and an ammo box... Needless to say, I had to spend quite some time replacing that Walrus.

One other time I had 2 walruses assisting my nr 6 walrus which simply ignored a bridge and drove in a cliff. Offcourse, as a good assistant, the other two followed. Result: 30 minutes of getting all three unstuck and out of the cliff.

Then there was this one time where I gave an order to refuel a walrus but he backed up and drove off a mountain...

Last but not least: gave a dock order to a heavily damaged walrus only to see him drive into a tree and explode -_-

The manta-hook makes it more bearable at times but still... feels I have to babysit them all the time...

[HuberK 1]

When we may expect a patch that will solve this bug?

[tortuosit 486]

HuberK, we cannot know this. Also there are different opinions in how difficult Walrus AI programming is...

Threadstarter, keep in mind the game has been released late friday and now it's monday...

[Tolmos 1]

Of course, I may have jumped the gun on this question. I just noticed someone on Steam's forums mention that patch 1.02 was announced on the official site as being released, with the additional note of "Various Walrus AI improvements". It doesn't appear to have reached steam yet, so I was curious if anyone here may have tried it and did it make much of a difference?

Keep in mind the game has been released late friday and now it's monday...

Understandable. I'm not expecting they could fix it immediately, but I'm mostly just looking for a forum post of reassurance from one of the devs or mods saying they at least recognize the issue.

I would normally assume that is a given, but this is an issue that seems to have been mentioned several hundred times on the beta forums many weeks before this, so I had some small worry that maybe the devs were ok with where with the current pathfinding is at and don't have it high on the list of fix priorities.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Tolmos

[Tontow 1]

Pathfinding has been an issue in beta 1, in beta 2 and beta 3.

And it is still an issue.

If you read the patch notes for the last patch, they did do some work on it, but (looking at some of the past games BI has done) pathfinding does not seem to be one of BI's strong points.

[Serpentras 10]

I expect from most of you here who write that you dont know the game where the driver AI is taken from but I say this: they wont have fixed it in the other game and the other game is really big so I don't believe that the pathsystem will be fixed.

[Mortem86 10]

That would be a shame and would make this game for most players unplayable. Including me, i want fun playing a game not ragequit it everytime i need to babysit a walrus to his desination.

There are issues with the game, but beside the pathing problem i can overlook them but nothing of it is frustrating me so much like the walrustamagotchi.

[Guess Who 10]

I expect from most of you here who write that you dont know the game where the driver AI is taken from but I say this: they wont have fixed it in the other game and the other game is really big so I don't believe that the pathsystem will be fixed.

That's totally *wrong* because CC's engine has nothing to do with Arma or Real Virtuality. Nothing has been taken from RV here. If you were here a little longer, you would know BIS always listens and they allways try to fix things. Just give them a break.

[Serpentras 10]

Uhm sorry for that but I only register in 2011 because I got problems with Arma 2 specific mods. And I play BIS games since OPF was out so I would say that I am not in to it. Do I say they take the vbs engine? And for the driver AI they used in the past games, I can only say one thing bad. I don't care much for that because they are perfect mp games. In general it works the driver ai but you loose much more when the ai drive , sometimes they cant reach points and never get to top speed what is really nice when the vehicle is under fire.

[NoseBagUK 1]

Threadstarter, keep in mind the game has been released late friday and now it's monday...

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting. The Walrus AI hasn't got any better since the start of the Play & Contribute Beta at the start of April.

Making then able to turn on the spot would probably be a good start.

[krycek 349]

That's totally *wrong* because CC's engine has nothing to do with Arma or Real Virtuality. Nothing has been taken from RV here. If you were here a little longer, you would know BIS always listens and they allways try to fix things. Just give them a break.

Actually I'm one of the guys that are here "a little longer" and although BI tried to improve AI pathfinding(and flying for that matter) in past games there are still some serious issues.Since OFP their games grew up in complexity but the AI took a back seat.After A2CO got a ton of patches seeing a convoy passing a town it's still pure comedy except you forget to laugh,or the occasional air support crashing in trees.

The problem here is that from what I've seen this game is way less complex than A2CO yet it suffers the exactly same problems.

[Serpentras 10]

Actually I'm one of the guys that are here "a little longer" and although BI tried to improve AI pathfinding(and flying for that matter) in past games there are still some serious issues. Since OFP their games grew up in complexity but the AI took a back seat.

Yah tried to improve it but I cant see much difference between the driving AI from opf , arma , arma 2, a2co and cc.

The behavior of the vehicles is the same as it is in the past games and you "Guess Who" will really try me to tell they create a new AI who had nothing to do with the other games? But will do exact the same mistakes as the AI from the other games? Only by coincidence? I Guess Not ;)

[tortuosit 486]

Ya, today I suffered from braindead walrusses. Chaining didn't also help. I now avoid using more than 2.

My thought:

- Pathfinding is complex here because it is not fixed waypoint based, but does take an unknown area into account (this will e.g. make possible mods with new islands)

I fear:

- They maybe have a library in common for Arma/CC

- They have not enough skill for that / or chose a wrong approach of AI design

- If they make AI better, they're just twiddling parameters

All just guessing, me ain't knowing nuthing!

[jedra 11]

I posted a video example of the crazy waypoint logic in this thread.

[SGXander 1]

Ya, today I suffered from braindead walrusses. Chaining didn't also help. I now avoid using more than 2.

My thought:

- Pathfinding is complex here because it is not fixed waypoint based, but does take an unknown area into account (this will e.g. make possible mods with new islands)

I fear:

- They maybe have a library in common for Arma/CC

- They have not enough skill for that / or chose a wrong approach of AI design

- If they make AI better, they're just twiddling parameters

All just guessing, me ain't knowing nuthing!

a more fluid waypoint system would be a start. currently you set a destination and it stages it then when you execute it creates waypoints along the most direct given path to your chosen target. when each of these waypoints is reached it creates sub-waypoints along the next few meters and that gives them all a juddering stop start effect which slows the whole thing down. also when setting a waypoint then pressing e when you know you are driving it along the correct path it has to reverse because its first sub-waypoint is already behind it.

in short:

they need to be able to work out if they are nearer waypoint 2 than 1 and bypass 1 if that is the case

they need to be able to carry movement/speed through waypoints rather than the current; go to waypoint 1, now you are at waypoint 1 go to waypoint 2 etc

also currently they only draw straight lines between waypoints and sub-waypoints this causes any cornering to be very poor and incredibly slow as a simple right hander causes the computer to create 6-8 sub-waypoints just to do it. all we do is hold down w and d :)

im with tortuosit though i dont know the particulars of how the AI driving works so we may be asking too much of it...

Edit:

Decent explenation on creating smooth curves without creating overhead in the first half of this post;

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3217

Edited October 1, 2012 by SGXander

[Dreadnought808 1]

Just to recap from a different thread:

Suggested solutions:

-Allow them to turn in place. Possibly not allow it when player is driving.

-Increase waypoint trigger size. They seem to miss the waypoint and thus start driving back, causing a lot of the problems. Downside- less precise and will need more room to move inbetween objects. Next point would remedy that.

-Optimise non-driveable terrain mask. That should prevent them to drive off of cliffs, up cliffs, into trees, onto rocks, wreckage and bunkers.

I've been playing it vigorously, and definitely love this game to bits, but I'm shelving it for now because of the conclusion of this test:

All four of my walrusses, heavy armor, big guns, nicely on a line with plenty of room, in front of the enemy base gate.

Three non-armored walrusses inside, ready to bottleneck.

-When taking control of one, the battle lasts half a minute and the enemy is vaporised, none of my walrusses even got hit.

-When leaving them on standby... as soon as the enemy shows it's face, one drives off backwards, turns and plunges down the cliff, in lava.

The second turns, shoots, and hits the third who decides to rush them, ater which he follows the first, off the cliff and down the lava.

The third, being shot at from all angles, decides he can't navigate where he is and heads off to the right, off into another enemy camp.

The fourth drives backwards, keeps driving backwards and hits a wreck, getting stuck on it.

Battle lasts a minute, none of mine survive.

Not kidding, really happened. Pure comedy.

Shelved until fixed.

[instagoat 133]

One thing that strikes me is how quickly the AI can maneuver about, and how they can drive even trough dense patches of forest no problem. And then, on the open field, they get stuck on a single rock. I think, like with Arma, it´s a problem of consistency and repeatabillity. If I want to inflict maximum damage on an enemy, I don´t send walruses somewhere, I inch them forward bit by bit, and once the enemy is in range, let them flail about as they wish.

I´m still very new (just got the game), so maybe the big hitches I didn´t see yet.

[Danse 1]

I actually registered just to comment on this issue.

I played the original CC back on the Amiga. With only Hostile Waters to take its place, it's been a fair old wait for this one. I love it to pieces. But if there's one thing that's going to kill it stone dead, it's the comically bad pathfinding. I'm living with it at the moment, as I've come to learn the various quirks and some of it can be mitigated. There's only so much the user can do however before the Walruses do something that belongs in the circus.

I watched utterly bemused today as my Walrus tried to turn 10° to it's left while on a nice open road. Instead of just turning left, it began a 350° turn to its right in the form of a twenty-nine point turn. Having then decided that this wasn't working and that trees are too solid to drive through, it drove off into the wooded area at the side of the road and began apparently mating with a rock, thus becoming 'stuck' for want of better word.

I had to ram it with another Walrus, as I didn't have a bucket of cold water at hand.

Carrier Command Gaea is a good game right now.

If they can fix this abominable path-finding, it could be great.

I really hope they do. I'm rooting for them, in fact. I'd like to see sequels, DLC, a massive modding community, everything. Just ... gotta stop the insanity, or change the in-game music to Entrance of the Gladiators - the Circus Tune.

Come on BI, throw us a bone here. We're aching to love this game you've made.

[Daeion 1]

Carrier Command Gaea is a good game right now.

If they can fix this abominable path-finding, it could be great.

I really hope they do. I'm rooting for them, in fact. I'd like to see sequels, DLC, a massive modding community, everything. Just ... gotta stop the insanity, or change the in-game music to Entrance of the Gladiators - the Circus Tune.

Come on BI, throw us a bone here. We're aching to love this game you've made.

I have to agree with you on this. This game has a lot of potential. I'm supposed to review this game and right now I'm looking at a score around 70-ish (out of 100)... But, with the pathfinding working as intended I could easily score this game around 80-85 which is a HUGE mental step for some people considering wether to buy or not buy this game.

Having played many games, I tend to overlook issues for my personal pleasure but when I have to write a review about it? Let's just say I won't hold back my punches.

BI has about 90% worked out but it's the 10% that's really killing it at this point: Bad pathfinding (meaning micromanagement) and lack of a manual timewarp (resulting in a lot of downtime between gameplay).

Should they fix this before I'm done with my review (and God knows, I take my time to do it right) than I might just score this the score it would deserve.

[Gnrl_Grad 1]

One thing that strikes me is how quickly the AI can maneuver about, and how they can drive even trough dense patches of forest no problem.

I noticed this too and was amazed when my walrus went through a dense forest not a bother but I thought it might have been a once off fluke, haven't tried it since but they seem to have more problems navigating around buildings and each other than trees? I had one ai walrus get stuck between two walls and I had to abandon it because I couldn't even drive him free myself.

[Raisuli 1]

Carrier Command Gaea is a good game right now.

If they can fix this abominable path-finding, it could be great.

I really hope they do. I'm rooting for them, in fact. I'd like to see sequels, DLC, a massive modding community, everything. Just ... gotta stop the insanity, or change the in-game music to Entrance of the Gladiators - the Circus Tune.

Come on BI, throw us a bone here. We're aching to love this game you've made.

I agree, registered to comment on this as well. I think we all want this game to succeed.

I do have a question that has been asked earlier as well. Did someone try out the patch posted on the game's official site?

I bought the game via steam on the weekend and was wondering what game version should be displayed if the patch was applied.

Strangely enough, the day before I bought the game the update news on steam for the game mentioned the patch, now they don't anymore.

[species1571 65]

1.2.0034 is what is displayed with the 1.02 patch. Not sure how this would be deployed on Steam since it breaks all your previous saved games. I don't know if Steam has the ability for optional updates, everything I have seen updated on Steam does so automatically. Since this patch has been out since release day, maybe Steam version was updated right from the start anyway.

[Raisuli 1]

Nope, wasn't applied automatically on steam. My game version is 1.1.xxxx.

Is the pathfinding any better with the patch?