LOD switching issue since 1.62

[mbicko 1]

Sorry about the double post, seems it's been majorly improved, but not entirely fixed.

See the tree's in this vid I just made, latest Beta.

Watch in 720p/1080p for best quality... 480p still visible though.

EDIT: It seems what I am demonstrating in the above video has been around since ArmA1/2009.... Uhgg..

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?90401-Zooming-and-LOD-switching

And proving grounds tree's lod switching while driving..

Look at the tree's on the left.

Edited September 13, 2012 by MBicko

[doveman 7]

Damn, I'm seeing the flickering that omac showed now sometimes, on buildings as well as trees.

Intrusive LOD switching seems to be back with a vengeance too (running 97239) on trees certainly (on Utes and Bystirica) and on buildings but maybe not as bad as before (hard to say as I haven't tested in the exact same locations).

It's a shame we need to put Object Detail on V.High to fix it (supposedly anyway) as this seems to cause a major drop in FPS (not sure of the exact figures but it was something like 60 FPS on V.Low, 42 on Normal and 30 on V.High). Certainly buildings look good enough to me on Normal (maybe even Low) but if I want to avoid LOD switching (supposedly) I have to use V.High. Then again, those figures were only whilst paused and it dropped to 30 FPS or less once back in the game anyway, I guess due to AI and the fact it's only using 50% of my CPU. I wouldn't mind a minimum of 30 but below that's really not good.

[BL1P 35]

Question.

Does the server need to be running the Beta in order for the fixed LODs to be working for the client ?

[maddogx 13]

Question.

Does the server need to be running the Beta in order for the fixed LODs to be working for the client ?

Nope. LOD switching should be client-only / server-independent.

[doveman 7]

Question.

Does the server need to be running the Beta in order for the fixed LODs to be working for the client ?

As MadDogX says, no, only bear in mind that if the server isn't running the beta and you are, VON won't work as the port was changed around 96051. If you're using Teamspeak it won't matter though.

---------- Post added at 15:37 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

Done some more testing and the LOD switching seems to be an issue only with trees now. Buildings I can notice a major difference between 1.62 and the beta and it's generally not an issue anymore (not saying it doesn't ever happen, just that most of the time it doesn't, compared to all the time with 1.62).

I've got ATOC on All Trees, PPAA on SMAA V.High and AA on Low. I thought I might not need AA as well as SMAA but as you can see from these screenshots, with AA off the trees look awful. They look wierd even with AA on but not quite so bad.

http://imageshack.us/a/img688/8343/arma2oa2012092615062142.png (2458 kB)

http://imageshack.us/a/img211/7428/arma2oa2012092615061106.png (2537 kB)

Oh and it seems there's a bug with the Video Memory setting on Default (which is recommended everywhere I've seen) and putting it on V.High gives me a substantial boost in FPS, as noted here http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?85124-ArmA2-OA-(low)-performance-issues&p=2230207&viewfull=1#post2230207

[KeyCat 131]

Oh and it seems there's a bug with the Video Memory setting on Default (which is recommended everywhere I've seen) and putting it on V.High gives me a substantial boost in FPS, as noted here http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?85124-ArmA2-OA-(low)-performance-issues&p=2230207&viewfull=1#post2230207

For me it's been like that since A2 1.00. On Very High I gain approx. 10-15% but the LOD handling/switching become worse. Thats why I've always picked Default as Video Memory setting.

/KC

[doveman 7]

For me it's been like that since A2 1.00. On Very High I gain approx. 10-15% but the LOD handling/switching become worse. Thats why I've always picked Default as Video Memory setting.

OK, I didn't notice it getting worse but I'll have to check that.

It's weird though as we're told that anything other than Default limits the amount of VRAM that can be used (I think V.High is 1GB) and Default allows it to use as much as is available, yet changing from Default to V.High gives this boost and doesn't appear to change how much VRAM is used (at least in the tests I did) so what is it doing?

[maddogx 13]

Check out the LOD_Flickering_Repro.Takistan mission from here.

Still shows the same behaviour for me as the old LOD system (<= 1.60), so I don't think they've actually done much to it yet. Suma did say that rewriting it would take some time.

[doveman 7]

Yeah fair enough, I realise it's quite a big job to rewrite and might take a while. I was just under the impression that they'd reverted to a system that didn't have this problem with Object Detail on V.High (although obviously with some other downsides or they wouldn't be rewriting it) and figured either the fix had got messed up in a more recent update, or something was up with my config.

Anyway, I'm just glad I don't get it on buildings anymore as it was most distracting having parts suddenly appear. The trees changing is distracting but not quite as jarring as the buildings were.

[lao fei mao 21]

I always hate the flickering and popping-up grass in Chernarus, even if I run the game with a fast Sunsung 830 SSD, they still exit.

[kklownboy 43]

well it helps to just stay 3k or under on Cherno., It is much better than it was when A2 came out. And the more AA you can use the better it is, until you just find the bad flickers (tin sheds, upper-story windows...).

[doveman 7]

well it helps to just stay 3k or under on Cherno., It is much better than it was when A2 came out. And the more AA you can use the better it is, until you just find the bad flickers (tin sheds, upper-story windows...).

I run at 3k and tried different levels of AA none of which seemed to make any difference to the LOD switching of trees. I don't really have a problem with buildings anyway with Objects Detail on V.High, so don't need to fiddle with AA to try and fix any the bad flickers you refer to.

[kklownboy 43]

I run at 3k and tried different levels of AA none of which seemed to make any difference to the LOD switching of trees. I don't really have a problem with buildings anyway with Objects Detail on V.High, so don't need to fiddle with AA to try and fix any the bad flickers you refer to.

for me with my settings the trees do not "flicker", they will change when zooming at them, but it changes to look better with my ATOC@7. At the edge of my VD(3k) you will get the popups, but not really all that bad, its unavoidable anyways not to have popin. I take back the windows flickering, it actual looks awesome. This is running around the westside of the power plant near Elektrozavodsk. Do you have particular area that is realy bad for the trees? beta_ 92078, will try all the newer ones.

Depending on the angle and the type of building window you will get the usual shimmer/flicker and the tin rooflines ...But trees are 98% solid, non flicker/shimmer. If i disable ATOC , they will shimmer, but not any huge amount of flicker/lod pop, 95% of trees in view.

97448 seems to be not as good in IQ than the others.. but it may just be i need to reboot the whole box..? I am not testing any of the ACR maps. Just default Cherno.

Edited September 27, 2012 by kklownboy

[doveman 7]

for me with my settings the trees do not "flicker", they will change when zooming at them, but it changes to look better with my ATOC@7. At the edge of my VD(3k) you will get the popups, but not really all that bad, its unavoidable anyways not to have popin. I take back the windows flickering, it actual looks awesome. This is running around the westside of the power plant near Elektrozavodsk. Do you have particular area that is realy bad for the trees? beta_ 92078, will try all the newer ones.

Depending on the angle and the type of building window you will get the usual shimmer/flicker and the tin rooflines ...But trees are 98% solid, non flicker/shimmer. If i disable ATOC , they will shimmer, but not any huge amount of flicker/lod pop, 95% of trees in view.

97448 seems to be not as good in IQ than the others.. but it may just be i need to reboot the whole box..? I am not testing any of the ACR maps. Just default Cherno.

No, the trees don't "flicker" for me either, it's the slow and very intrusive LOD switching that bothers me. I've got ATOC on All Trees. I don't seem to get the building shimmer or tin rooflines any more (or at least not much) with Object Detail on V.High and I used to see this all the time.

I think everywhere I've tried I see the problem with trees. I was testing on the west end of the runway on Utes yesterday and it was happening whether I looked at the trees on the nearby hill to the North or the trees far to the NW (obviously not so much with the nearby trees because they're already in the highest LOD but even then some of them were noticeable switching). I was testing Bystrica before that but that's an usable joke that goes from 56 FPS to 28 FPS when I look in certain directions, so I'll be avoiding that in future.

I'll try and get a video when I can. Tried with FRAPS the other day but that has such a bad affect on framerate that it's not really a very representative video and people might blame that for causing/making the problem worse than normal ;) I'll try MSI Afterburner next time and see if that's better. Gamebooster has a video recording feature as well but I'm not sure if it's much good yet.

[Daio 10]

ACR islands are still broken

can we hope for a solution bis???

its really annoying and nearly all trees on screen are changing

thats not funny anymore

how many months after release?

[doveman 7]

ACR islands are still broken

can we hope for a solution bis???

its really annoying and nearly all trees on screen are changing

thats not funny anymore

how many months after release?

I'm still getting that problem with trees on all islands, not just ACR.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

I'm still getting that problem with trees on all islands, not just ACR.

ACR suffers the most though, due to the LOD issues that the models already have. The engine LOD problem just compounds it exponentially. ACR trees are the worst trees I've seen in a game in a seriously long time.

[doveman 7]

ACR suffers the most though, due to the LOD issues that the models already have. The engine LOD problem just compounds it exponentially. ACR trees are the worst trees I've seen in a game in a seriously long time.

I haven't really looked at the ACR trees to compare but the A2 trees and plants are laughably bad, so if the ACR trees are worse than that, then wow. For example, I was watching entire tree trunks sway back and forth as if they were branches blowing in the wind, leaves that just look like collections of dots and bushes that up close look like someone just took a piece of paper and cut some holes in it (and when right in front of me, have the ability to pass through my head and body whilst swaying back and forth).

[NoRailgunner 0]

Did you try with disabled ATOC (or "only Grass") or disabled AA settings?

[doveman 7]

Yep, I've got ATOC disabled in a vain attempt to try and get more than 17fps and had AA disabled but have put it on High now to get rid of the shimmering on fences, etc.

[Daio 10]

up but i think its worthless they just ignoring this problem :(

videos pics and many many settings was postet where is the problem?

[linkin93 5]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I am having major headaches trying to stop this LOD switching all the time. It REALLY bugs me.

Are there any lines I can edit or add to arma2.cfg/arma2oa.cfg to limit the use of low detail models at close range? ie have them based upon distance and if zooming in on them with binocs, scopes, AT weapon, etc, it will load the high detail model?

The constant switching is just annoying at close range (<1000m)

I pretty much have a godlike PC, plenty of CPU, RAM, GPU. I run it with all the details up (save post processing (on normal) and FSAA (disabled, I use purely SMAA), I get constant 60+ fps unless something really major is going on. I really want to stop the models from switching. Does anyone know how?

PS I also have all A2/OA and expansions + mods installed onto SSD, load times and disk performance is a non issue for me.

Thanks to all.

[domokun 515]

Frustrating for sure!

How about posting your advanced video settings?

And your PC's specs?

[linkin93 5]

Frustrating for sure!

How about posting your advanced video settings?

And your PC's specs?

3570K 4.4GHz

16GB DDR3 2400MHz

GTX 670 2GB

Game on SSD drive

Running at 1920x1080 120hz

Game settings are all very high except for MSAA (off), ATOC (off with no AA obviously) post processing (set to normal, and using a mod to disable rotBlur)

[Vipera 10]

Try to change Video Memory to Default instead of Very High. This helped me a lot to kill LOD switching.