Character Defaults: Walk, Weapon Lowered

[Defunkt 431]

I'm not really certain by what criteria suggestions are judged thread-and-discussion worthy or rather destined for the Wishes & Ideas | NO DISCUSSION shitheap thread but I guess someone will decide for me if I just chance my arm. That said, colour me at a bit of a loss as to the purpose of a forum if one can't post ideas like this for discussion.

Always there are complaints from players new to the series that ArmA is 'clunky' and that it is absurdly difficult to maneuver ones character, especially around interiors. I put this down first and foremost to the game clinging to the convention that player characters should by default jog everywhere with their weapon raised. This is of course not typical of RL, let's the game down as a simulation and encourages new players to try and do what every other shooter allows them to get away with and quite literally 'run & gun' everywhere they go (in and out of doorways, up and down stairways). ArmA isn't like every other shooter and nothing would get that message across like requiring players to choose to jog and choose to raise their weapon as the game already requires them to choose to run/sprint and choose to sight/scope.

More keys? Not really. The game already offers binds to choose to walk and choose to lower-weapon, I'm just proposing that the choices should be inverted. That way the many players who're too new or simply lazy to exercise these choices would either walk-or-sprint with weapon lowered-or-sighted which is emminently more sensible/useful/realistic (especially in combat) than having players who only ever jog-or-sprint with weapon raised-or-sighted. IMHO a simple change like this could have a tremendous positive impact on the perceptions of new players especially.

Some will say that as the choice to walk and the choice to lower weapon already exist the status quo is fine but new players will form their opinions of the game's movement long before they can ever use these options as a matter of habit. They need to be confronted with a this-game-is-different flag from the get go rather than required to discover and then remember to set these options each time they spawn. Personally though I'm practiced in using these binds I would much prefer that jogging and weapon raised were the least accessible options (i.e. required more, or less easily reached, key strokes) given they're really most suited to very specific needs (covering long distances, room clearing).

Anyone else?

[Beagle 684]

Thats mission related, every mission can start with weapons lowered if the designer want's it.

just put in: setCombatMode "safe"

[rye1 21]

I agree to a point:

1) Sometimes you do literally run and gun, sometimes it is both realistic and of benefit. Speed at that level is not unrealistic.

2) Are you asking there be some amount of counter-balance to this or negative effect? I.e. stamina (obviously), falling over, less smoothness, wider movements, banging into things and putting off aim?

3) Double control = lower weapon. Shift held, not held, double tapped = Run, walk. What are you asking for in terms of controls for the new animations i.e. tactical pace? We already have the ability to control it. If you're asking for a default in an options or scripting setting then I could understand that. At the start of mission you're usually stood still, weapon up, default jog on -> Hazard, agreed.

P.S. Arma is clunky <- Experienced player.

[Defunkt 431]

1) Sometimes you do literally run and gun, sometimes it is both realistic and of benefit. Speed at that level is not unrealistic.

Not suggesting any ability be taken away just that, when the lead is flying, (training would probably dictate that) sprinting and using your weapon's sights when firing are the norm (i.e. most accessible actions) and when not under fire walking with weapon lowered should be the norm (the other most accessible option). Jogging with your weapon shouldered is a bit-odd/less-usual especially if we're going to have a new 'tactical jog' as well.

2) Are you asking there be some amount of counter-balance to this or negative effect? I.e. stamina (obviously), falling over, less smoothness, wider movements, banging into things and putting off aim?

Having new players not banging into things as readily is probably sufficient but it would be good if walking was more rewarded fatigue-wise.

3) Double control = lower weapon. Shift held, not held, double tapped = Run, walk. What are you asking for in terms of controls for the new animations i.e. tactical pace? We already have the ability to control it.

Didn't detail how the binds might work just because I wanted to avoid a wall-of-text OP. Personally I use double-tap on all of WASD to toggle between walk and jog which I find works extremely well as a I can toggle and set off in a single action but I still tend to jog everywhere just because it's the default and requires no thought (my point being that you should have to decide to jog).

If you're asking for a default in an options or scripting setting then I could understand that. At the start of mission you're usually stood still, weapon up, default jog on -> Hazard, agreed.

As much as it is a hazard it also contributes to a mindset; 'this is how we always get around' which is really just a hangover from other purely action-orientated shooters.

Thats mission related, every mission can start with weapons lowered if the designer want's it.

Equally if the default was reversed a mission designer could use almost the exact same command to have all avatars start with weapon shouldered but I think in most missions you don't spawn in under fire.

[.kju 3245]

Did you check this yet Defunkt?

Scripted weapon collision addon - looking for input

[zimms 22]

I agree with Defunkt and I've also had that thought. Especially for new players, ArmA would feel much smoother and I think it would also be a bonus for 'realism' and would look good. Because as mentioned in real life de default is also walking, not running.

[max power 21]

I'm not really certain by what criteria suggestions are judged thread-and-discussion worthy or rather destined for the Wishes & Ideas | NO DISCUSSION shitheap thread but I guess someone will decide for me if I just chance my arm. That said, colour me at a bit of a loss as to the purpose of a forum if one can't post ideas like this for discussion.

Defunkt

And thank you for not discussing the forum moderation in a public thread. Instead of chancing your arm, you could have always asked a moderator in the ask a moderator thread, or in a pm.

+1 infraction.

To answer your question about what criteria we use, we use subjective criteria such as weighing what has a chance for actual meaningful discussion vs. what is moon gazing.

§18) No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments about the forum or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo), he will be happy to look into the matter. You may also ask your questions in the "Ask a mod" thread; however that thread is not to be used to attack/rant against specific moderators or about specific rules but more for questions/answers.

[dmarkwick 261]

I've tried the default walk thing, and quite honestly, almost every time I immediately go to jog in any case. I guess that as there has to be a default starting condition, might as well use the one that most people will use anyway :)

[metalcraze 290]

Dude just hit shift twice if you want to walk all the time. No need to change anything.

[The_Blackfish 2]

Please don't be shocked by this but I play ArmA 2 with an Xbox 360 controller. I am not too sure how many others do the same and I hope in ArmA 3 I can continue to use the same controller.

Why you may be asking?

Well it is a more analogue interface than a keyboard and therefore you get a better feeling when moving your unit in the game.

Ofcourse I had to do some minor customizations to the button layout to make it more suited to the complex interface of ArmA.

With the controller I can easily choose to Walk, Job or Sprint just by moving the Y-axis and with the simple click of a button on the dpad I can go from prone , crouched and standing.

I find the controller more intuitive and I look forward to these more fluid animations and positions going hand in hand with my game controller.

So all I can say is try a controller , I am not too sure if ArmA 2 supports other controllers like a PS2 or Gamecube USB ?

[onlyrazor 11]

Please don't be shocked by this but I play ArmA 2 with an Xbox 360 controller. I am not too sure how many others do the same and I hope in ArmA 3 I can continue to use the same controller.

Why you may be asking?

Well it is a more analogue interface than a keyboard and therefore you get a better feeling when moving your unit in the game.

Ofcourse I had to do some minor customizations to the button layout to make it more suited to the complex interface of ArmA.

With the controller I can easily choose to Walk, Job or Sprint just by moving the Y-axis and with the simple click of a button on the dpad I can go from prone , crouched and standing.

I find the controller more intuitive and I look forward to these more fluid animations and positions going hand in hand with my game controller.

So all I can say is try a controller , I am not too sure if ArmA 2 supports other controllers like a PS2 or Gamecube USB ?

I'm pretty sure the Arma series already has X360 controller support... But how does this relate to the current topic? Ask in the confirmed features thread.

[The_Blackfish 2]

I'm pretty sure the Arma series already has X360 controller support... But how does this relate to the current topic? Ask in the confirmed features thread.

Because a keyboard is clunky I feel when moving around in ArmA 2 as infantry or as a pilot. A controller has a good balance between analogue and digital buttons.

In my opinion it would be easier to tap a designated button like the X , or Y axis on a controller to raise your gun position than on a keyboard where you might have to do something like "Shift + J"

I play ArmA 2 with Xbox 360 controller and I can confirm it supports wired Xbox 360 and wireless controllers, so I would imagine ArmA 3 will continue the support maybe some minor tweaks in relation to these new positions and animations.

-- Example --

Walking with gun in semi lowered position.

1/4 forward on left stick position + left stick clicked once

---->>>>

Switching to walking gun raised position , all you do is double tap the left stick and it bring the gun up

Apologies if it seems confusing the way I have written it,

Edited July 21, 2012 by The_Blackfish

[iceman77 18]

Because a keyboard is clunky I feel when moving around in ArmA 2 as infantry or as a pilot. A controller has a good balance between analogue and digital buttons.

In my opinion it would be easier to tap a designated button like the X , or Y axis on a controller to raise your gun position than on a keyboard where you might have to do something like "Shift + J"

I play ArmA 2 with Xbox 360 controller and I can confirm it supports wired Xbox 360 and wireless controllers, so I would imagine ArmA 3 will continue the support maybe some minor tweaks in relation to these new positions and animations.

-- Example --

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/360_controller.svg/450px-360_controller.svg.png

Walking with gun in semi lowered position.

1/4 forward on left stick position + left stick clicked once

---->>>>

Switching to walking gun raised position , all you do is double tap the left stick and it bring the gun up

Apologies if it seems confusing the way I have written it,

A controller is inferior compared to a keyboard once you've mastered using a keyboard and mouse setup.As far as using secondary keys like shift + J..if it were an important ability in the first place i'd just assign it to one key. Also, if i want to bring my gun up i just tap my primary weapon fire key, in my case it's my left mouse button.Just saying...

At any rate i'm 99.9999% sure you'll be able to use your controller in A3

Edited July 22, 2012 by Iceman77

[liquidpinky 11]

A controller is inferior compared to a keyboard once you've mastered using a keyboard and mouse setup.

It's not really, there is no detrimental side effects and I can compete evenly against keyboard mouse users. Although I play Joypad & Mouse style so I still use my mouse to aim.

There are enough buttons on the pad and modern mice to make accessing the keyboard pointless, apart from typing in messages.

The analogue stick gives me plenty of control over movement.

I have raise/lower already mapped to the L1 button and a quick tap of Fire will raise your weapon also as standard anyway, handy to remember when you don't want to stand up while kneeling with your weapon lowered.

The analogue stick also gives you a movement speed incapable from the keyboard, if you very gently lean on the stick you avatar will actually glide very very slowly forwards with no animation being triggered. What it's usefulness is has yet to be determined though.

They do not need to make any fancy controller profiles for A3 as the current version in A2 is fine, apart from making the left trigger work as fire button without having to use third party software would be nice.

[The_Blackfish 2]

It's not really, there is no detrimental side effects and I can compete evenly against keyboard mouse users. Although I play Joypad & Mouse style so I still use my mouse to aim.

There are enough buttons on the pad and modern mice to make accessing the keyboard pointless, apart from typing in messages.

The analogue stick gives me plenty of control over movement.

I have raise/lower already mapped to the L1 button and a quick tap of Fire will raise your weapon also as standard anyway, handy to remember when you don't want to stand up while kneeling with your weapon lowered.

The analogue stick also gives you a movement speed incapable from the keyboard, if you very gently lean on the stick you avatar will actually glide very very slowly forwards with no animation being triggered. What it's usefulness is has yet to be determined though.

They do not need to make any fancy controller profiles for A3 as the current version in A2 is fine, apart from making the left trigger work as fire button without having to use third party software would be nice.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

Also if you don't to switch to keyboard to use in game chat I suggest you buy this Liquidpinky :)

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Messenger-Kit/dp/B000UN3UDQ

[Olympianmind 1]

Its... Well... Just that... It is... Uhmm... Err, This thing... Is... Ughh... I really don't know what I have to say anymore.

[Echo38 1]

P.S. Arma is clunky <- Experienced player.

This. I have thousands of hours in the OpF and Arma series. I love the game, but it is undeniably clunky even for a highly-experienced (and effective) player. Needlessly so, too--the clunkiness does not add to realism, but rather detracts from it.