TPWC AI suppression system

[giorgygr 61]

This is really odd.

What version of TPWCAS and/or TPWLOS are you using?

Please notice there are currently a few different setups possible.

TPWCAS_DSC is a special version which should only be installed on a Dedicated Server and non of the clients (= player pc's) are allowed to have TPWCAS and/or TPWLOS running

Thank you for quick-replying to this urgent-for us-matter

We are running the latest versions of TPWCAS and TPWLOS on our Dedi server.

TBH i wasn't aware of the TPWCAS_DSC version until i read the whole thread (today).

*edited later

So..

1)The use of casual versions of TPWCAS and TPWLOS are not recommended for dedi use?

2)What happens if player can/must recruit A.I? (i.e Warfare//MSO game-modes) :(

Thanks in advance

Edited October 18, 2012 by GiorgyGR

[SavageCDN 231]

So if you are expecting more the 20 players and a lot of close AI, I recommend to disable for now.

Bugger - just noticed there isn't a disable option in the TPWCAS_DSC (Dedicated Server) PBO version yet...

Thought I already added it in this version.

Will be there for sure in next release.

For now, as a workaround in case you experience low FPS, you my want to set the following parameters in userconfig file (tpwcas_dsc.hpp):

//MAXIMUM LOS DISTANCE (M). LOS STUFF ONLY WORKS FOR UNITS CLOSER THAN THIS.

tpwlos_maxdist = 50;

//MINIMUM LOS DISTANCE (M). ENEMIES ARE CONSIDERED "VISIBLE" NO MATTER WHAT, IF LESS THAN THIS DISTANCE.

tpwlos_mindist = 25;

Thanks for your reply.. we are in fact doing 20 players in close quarters (Cinder_City map).. in my testing on non-dedi I had to remove LOS as it was causing a lot of stutters, etc. If I cannot disable this in the dedi version I'll wait for the update... thanks for the info :)

[singleton 22]

I hope this works in a big server. Can anybody shed light if this works with a high player count?

[ollem 4]

Thank you for quick-replying to this urgent-for us-matter

We are running the latest versions of TPWCAS and TPWLOS on our Dedi server.

TBH i wasn't aware of the TPWCAS_DSC version until i read the whole thread (today).

1)The use of casual versions of TPWCAS and TPWLOS are not recommended for dedi use?

2)What happens if player can/must recruit A.I? (i.e Warfare//MSO game-modes) :(

Thanks in advance

The "DSC" in "TPWCAS_DSC" stands for Dedicated Server Coop. So should only be used for players versus AI on dedicated server.

i.E. only player shot bullets suppress enemy AI.

In case you want both players+friendly AI to be able to suppress enemy AI, you would need regular TPWCAS on the dedicated server, and regular TPWCAS as client on each players PC as well.

i.E both player and AI shot bullets suppress AI (both ways).

Regular TPWLOS would only be needed on server.

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

I hope this works in a big server. Can anybody shed light if this works with a high player count?

How much is high player count?

Anyhow, TPWCAS and TPWCAS-DSC are FPS aware: if server FPS drops below threshold value (configurable) the suppress effect automnatically reduces to make sure FPS stays okay.

So worst case you would (temporarily) have the same situation as without TWPCAS running...

PelleJones reported they had no problems on dedicated server with some 40 players with TPWCAS/TPWCAS-DSC script version running.

NOTE: By default TPWCAS-DCS has embedded TPWLOS: PelleJones has reported this has significant impact on server FPS: at least 15 FPS drop.

I'll release a new TPWCAS-DCS version on short notice which will have the option to disable embedded TPWLOS (i'll try before the weekend)

For the near future I will make TPWLOS also FPS aware and try to see what causes the FPS hit

It requires some debugging but right now I think this might be caused by used 'lineIntersects' and/or 'terrainIntersectASL' command.

---------- Post added at 18:04 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

Why not: updated TPWCAS-DSC (so for Dedicated Server usage only) which has the embedded TPWLOS disabled by default. Rest exactly the same as v0.2

TPWCAS_DSC_v0.3.zip

Readme:

(TPWCAS-DSC: special modified version based on TPWCAS 3.04 and TPWLOS 1.03)

NOTE:

please make sure no other tpwcas or tpwlos is active while otherwise things will most likely go foobar bigtime... (both server and client side)

This version will

- only run on a dedicated server (no client side script/pbo needed)

- only trigger AI suppression by player shot bullets

- only trigger LOS for AI being able to see players.

- not show color changes for debug balls - height of the ball will indicate level and kind of suppression/tpwlos will activate seperate ball so 2 balls may be visible at same time

server.rpt logging is disabled by default now

Current beta version is available as script version or unsigned PBO.

If it appears to be working well I will either formally release separately or embed it in the formal twpcas release as a config select option.

For script version:

Embed tpwcas_dsc directory in your mission file and start using:

null = [] execvm "tpwcas_dsc\tpwcas_dsc.sqf";

For PBO version:

Add mod to server startup config

copy/move userconfig\tpwcas_dsc\tpwcas_dsc.hpp to <arma dir>\userconfig\tpwcas_dsc\ and adjust parameters when applicable

Feedback is highly appreciated

Edited October 19, 2012 by Ollem

[singleton 22]

Wonderful, thanks for the quick reply! I will be giving this a try myself on my MSO server as soon as its up.

[giorgygr 61]

@ Ollem

Endless cheers mate :)

[ollem 4]

Version 0.3 appears to have a small bug: userconfig file for PBO version isn't read.

Updated version: TPWCAS_DSC_V0.4.zip

Readme:

(TPWCAS-DSC: special modified version based on TPWCAS 3.04 and TPWLOS 1.03)

NOTE:

please make sure no other tpwcas or tpwlos is active while otherwise things will most likely go foobar bigtime... (both server and client side)

This version will

- only run on a dedicated server (no client side script/pbo needed)

- only trigger AI suppression by player shot bullets

- only trigger LOS for AI being able to see players.

- not show color changes for debug balls - height of the ball will indicate level and kind of suppression/tpwlos will activate seperate ball so 2 balls may be visible at same time

server.rpt logging is disabled by default now

Current beta version is available as script version or unsigned PBO.

If it appears to be working well I will either formally release separately or embed it in the formal twpcas release as a config select option.

For script version:

Embed tpwcas_dsc directory in your mission file and start using:

null = [] execvm "tpwcas_dsc\tpwcas_dsc.sqf";

For PBO version:

Add mod to server startup config

copy/move userconfig\tpwcas_dsc\tpwcas_dsc.hpp to <arma dir>\userconfig\tpwcas_dsc\ and adjust parameters when applicable

Feedback is highly appreciated

[Grey-Legolas 10]

Hello guys, i want to thank you once again for your brilliant work and ask a small question about using TPW LOS together with ACE:

Is it somehow possible to higher the priorety of TPW comperatively to ACE mod and make the game follow ACE commands only if they do not contradict TPW scripts?

Because now if i play with TPW LOS (+ ASR) ai react just splendid, but if i also use ACE, AI behave just as if i`m not using TPW LOS at all and start doing all stupid things which they are able to do in native Arma or even ACE (running away along the street while being under direct fire, long and uneffective scanning for targets and even longer aiming, ignoring enemies who are standing at 0-15 degrees to them etc).

So maybe there is a way to block somehow other mods ability to affect Ai or just block them while TPW LOS`es CQC engagment radius is activated?

[SavageCDN 231]

[/color]Why not: updated TPWCAS-DSC (so for Dedicated Server usage only) which has the embedded TPWLOS disabled by default. Rest exactly the same as v0.2

TPWCAS_DSC_v0.3.zip

Thank you good sir you have a better response time than most companies that charge for the service ;)

[khaki 10]

Hi everyone. Sorry about my lack of input over the last month or so, RL issues have sapped some of my enthusiasm. Thanks to Ollem for continuing to keep development moving too. I will try to get back on the horse.

Regarding the targetting brackets Khaki and others are seeing, lines 229 and 230 of the TPWLOS script dicate what a given unit does if it has line of sight to an enemy:

_unit lookat _near; 
_unit dofire _near;

In particular, if _unit also happens to be the player, then dofire might bring up the targetting bracket.

Khaki, if you are running the script version, try changing line 101 from

if ((side _x != civilian) && (lifestate _x == "ALIVE")) then 

to

if ((side _x != civilian) && (lifestate _x == "ALIVE") && !(isPlayer _x)) then 

This should only apply LOS calcs to non-players. My coding is a bit rusty after time off, so I could be wrong.

Awesome stuff, will try it out!

But I may switch over to the DSC version, hopefully this still applies.

[Lucasmnunesk 2]

When im using @TPW_ai_los version 104 all the Indepedents AI are shooting at OpFor when i've made them friendly and even init commands could override it, i've unchecked all my mods one by one, and "TPW_AI_LOS" seems to be the one that is making Indepedents shoot on OpFor, btw OpFor don't return fire, they are friendly to Indepedents

[nimrod_z 8]

When im using @TPW_ai_los version 104 all the Indepedents AI are shooting at OpFor when i've made them friendly and even init commands could override it, i've unchecked all my mods one by one, and "TPW_AI_LOS" seems to be the one that is making Indepedents shoot on OpFor, btw OpFor don't return fire, they are friendly to Indepedents

sounds like u may need to change the settings in the LOS script itself. i had an issue like that as well till i realized the script was telling the ai different then what i was in the editor settings..

//ENEMY SIDE
			switch (side _unit) do 
			{
			case east: 
				{
				_unit setvariable ["tpwlos_enemyside",west];
				};
			case west: 
				{
				_unit setvariable ["tpwlos_enemyside",east];
				};
			case resistance: 
				{
				_unit setvariable ["tpwlos_enemyside",east];
				};
			};

[ollem 4]

When im using @TPW_ai_los version 104 all the Indepedents AI are shooting at OpFor when i've made them friendly and even init commands could override it, i've unchecked all my mods one by one, and "TPW_AI_LOS" seems to be the one that is making Indepedents shoot on OpFor, btw OpFor don't return fire, they are friendly to Indepedents

TPWLOS still has some hardcoded side related code.

In TPWLOS-DSC this code is already replaced by dynamic code.

We'll make sure it's modified in next release of TPWLOS

For script version this can be fixed by removing line 108 and beyond section:

//ENEMY SIDE
			switch (side _unit) do 
			{
			case east: 
				{
				_unit setvariable ["tpwlos_enemyside",west];
				};
			case west: 
				{
				_unit setvariable ["tpwlos_enemyside",east];
				};
			case resistance: 
				{
				_unit setvariable ["tpwlos_enemyside",east];
				};
			};

And replace line 154:

//IF ENEMY
	if (side _near == _unit getvariable "tpwlos_enemyside") then  

with:

//IF ENEMY
if (((side _unit) getFriend (side _near)) < 0.6) then

[SavageCDN 231]

PelleJones reported some FPS drop, most likely caused by the embedded TPWLOS.

So if you are expecting more the 20 players and a lot of close AI, I recommend to disable for now.

Just wanted to give you a status report on our use of the dedi-only COOP version last Saturday.

Mission was on Cinder City

16 human players

Approx 10 AI groups (4-5 units per) with another dozen or so single AI units.

AI groups were using either UPSMON or Zorilya's Garrison Script

Single AI units were using Tophe's HousePatrol script

ASR_AI running server-side only

ACE and ACRE (always :cool:)

Embedded tpwcas_dsc script with these params changed:

tpwcas_ir = 20;
tpwcas_maxdist = 600;

Embedded LOS enabled with these params changed:

tpwlos_maxdist = 50;
tpwlos_mindist = 15;

This was indeed a close-quarters mission with some house clearing and almost all engagements < 200m. If I were to guess I would say a max of 5-6 AI units firing at any one time (so not an all out war or anything with TONS of firing).

Happy to report absolutely no lag experienced from any players and server FPS was good (never below 28). A HUGE difference especially when it comes to LOS - with both (non-dedi) script versions running in the same mission it completely kills the framerate. As soon as LOS is disabled it is fine.

One problem I did notice however was with LOS script - it seems that it works great for the first time an AI unit 'encounters' a human player.. but if I come back a minute later on the same AI unit it's like he's forgotten how to look around again.. .in fact one time I stood beside the guy looking out the window.. even fired a few rounds at his feet.. which then prompted him to turn and shoot at me :p

Anyway great results and thanks once again!!

Edited October 22, 2012 by SavageCDN

[ollem 4]

One problem I did notice however was with LOS script - it seems that it works great for the first time an AI unit 'encounters' a human player.. but if I come back a minute later on the same AI unit it's like he's forgotten how to look around again.. .in fact one time I stood beside the guy looking out the window.. even fired a few rounds at his feet.. which then prompted him to turn and shoot at me

Thanks for the feedback.

I've noticed the odd behavior you described as well: AI sometimes walking just a few meters away, red debug ball indicating tpwlos activated, but no shpotinf.

In the mean time I do already have changed the TPWLOS code embedded in TPWCAS-DSC slightly to avoid this this.

It's not fully ready yet but I do hope to release updated version soon.

[giorgygr 61]

Yesterday on our Team's Coop night we had again the "annoying Red Ballz"

After numerous disappointments of WHAT-THE-FAQ is causing the issue (even in TPW_DSC 0.4 version) i have found the culprit.

One of my team members had TPWC_Suppr. client enabled.

We tested same mission later..and No more Red Ballz.

I ll keep following every update tho.

Thanks :)

[SavageCDN 231]

Yesterday on our Team's Coop night we had again the "annoying Red Ballz"

After numerous disappointments of WHAT-THE-FAQ is causing the issue (even in TPW_DSC 0.4 version) i have found the culprit.

One of my team members had TPWC_Suppr. client enabled.

We tested same mission later..and No more Red Ballz.

I ll keep following every update tho.

Thanks :)

Yes sorry I should have posted that as well... we had one guy who still had client version running.. ended up just removing the key files for both addons from the server so that if someone had it loaded it would kick them.

[ollem 4]

To try to avoid this problem I'll see if tpw could include some simple logic in regular TPWCAS to disable client automatically in case TPWCAS-DSC is found

[giorgygr 61]

To try to avoid this problem I'll see if tpw could include some simple logic in regular TPWCAS to disable client automatically in case TPWCAS-DSC is found

That..would be awesome..

[Laki 1]

Is this mod ACE-compatible? I mean, if I use it with ace or others ai mods will they work ok alltogether?

[SavageCDN 231]

Is this mod ACE-compatible? I mean, if I use it with ace or others ai mods will they work ok alltogether?

As far as I can tell... zero problems with ACE

AI mods that will work:

ASR_AI

DAC

I think ChrisB said it also works with GL4

[Laki 1]

As far as I can tell... zero problems with ACE

Thats sad, because in my case ACE disabeles tpw totally(. There are still coloured balls above AI, but units do not quickly engage the enemys being in LOS-radius anymore (as they do without ACE) and their reaction are much slower too:icon_cry:.

Can it be fixed?

[Tonci87 163]

No problem with ACE on my side either. Post your mod shortcut

[SavageCDN 231]

Thats sad, because in my case ACE disabeles tpw totally(. There are still coloured balls above AI, but units do not quickly engage the enemys being in LOS-radius anymore (as they do without ACE) and their reaction are much slower too:icon_cry:.

Can it be fixed?

Yes this is an issue with LOS not the suppresion script.. initial contact the AI unit reacts well but if you come back later to the same unit it's like the LOS stuff has stopped working. As far as I know this is not ACE-related (check out the previous page)

[chrisb 196]

Yes, ace seems fine with it, plus the ai mix I use, slx, gl4, zeus & this, parts from, not the full mod’s.

Initial reactions are good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz6k5Y-Rupg

..

But as 'savageCDN said it could be an issue elsewhere..

Edited October 25, 2012 by ChrisB