Syria - What should we do if anything?

[-GR-Operative 10]

Well, I'm sure the exactly same news about the very same syrian government abuses are replicated more times than their opposition counterparts. I hope that sentence makes some sense :P

[spooky lynx 73]

In the sunny day of 8th of august I've seen that many news agencies were telling that Russian tanks are advancing at poor innocent Georgia. But later they pardoned and said that tanks shown at those news were Georgian but not Russian. And it was not Gori but Tskhinval. All this was done after massive counter campaign by pro-Russian media. So I don't see anything strange when only Syrian government bad stuff is shown. Information war, nothing special.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

In the sunny day of 8th of august I've seen that many news agencies were telling that Russian tanks are advancing at poor innocent Georgia. But later they pardoned and said that tanks shown at those news were Georgian but not Russian.

Well, that's the way it is - information war, nothing personal. :)

With Syria, it's different: you have whole brigades defecting with generals and colonels on a daily basis. You can view our progress in real time at militaryphotos.net forum, search for "Syrian Uprising" thread there.

[spooky lynx 73]

Well, that's the way it is - information war, nothing personal. :)

With Syria, it's different: you have whole brigades defecting with generals and colonels on a daily basis. You can view our progress in real time at militaryphotos.net forum, search for "Syrian Uprising" thread there.

I'm registered there, and already received ban 'for posting unauthorized propaganda' in the Syrian topic (doubted that all that videos are true and told why I was doubt):) So I can say information war takes place there too. There were already fake videos of defected pilot with his Mi-24 (filmed at some museum of military hardware). There are some videos showing fake blood used by so called victims of evil dictatorship.

[PELHAM 10]

I'm registered there, and already received ban 'for posting unauthorized propaganda' in the Syrian topic (doubted that all that videos are true and told why I was doubt):) So I can say information war takes place there too. There were already fake videos of defected pilot with his Mi-24 (filmed at some museum of military hardware). There are some videos showing fake blood used by so called victims of evil dictatorship.

Well I guess the logic follows that if you have found a couple of videos that are fake it must all be made up. Russia, China and Syria are right and the vast majority of the rest of the world have fallen for a massive hoax by some Syrian Terrorists. I'm not sure why everyone can't see that 1 example or 1 fake video cancels out everything else, are you all stupid or something? Listen to what Spooky says, he's got this nailed down from back to front, you can't argue against his overwhelming evidence.

Just look at the number of countries that fell for it! I apologise for calling you a mushroom spooky, I got it completely wrong:

16 Feb 2012 General Assembly Adopts Resolution Strongly Condemning ‘Widespread and Systematic’ Human Rights Violations by Syrian Authorities

Text Passes by 137 Votes in Favour to 12 against, with 17 Abstentions

Strongly condemning continued widespread and systematic human rights violations by the Syrian authorities, the General Assembly today voted overwhelmingly to call on both the Government and allied forces and armed groups “to stop all violence or reprisals immediatelyâ€.

Adopting an Arab-backed resolution by a recorded vote of 137 in favour to 12 against, with 17 abstentions, the Assembly expressed grave concern at the deteriorating situation in Syria, and condemned a raft of violations carried out by the authorities, such as the use of force against civilians, the killing and persecution of protestors and journalists, and sexual violence and ill-treatment, including against children.

The Assembly called on Syria to abide by its obligations under international law, and demanded that the Government, in line with the 2 November 2011 Action Plan of the League of Arab States, and its decisions of 22 January and 12 February 2012, without delay, stop all violence and protect its people, release all those detained during the unrest, withdraw all armed forces from cities and towns, guarantee peaceful demonstrations and allow unhindered access for Arab League monitors and international media.

In favour: Afghanistan, Albania, Andorra, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Canada, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Denmark, Djibouti, Egypt, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Latvia, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Micronesia (Federated States of), Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Nauru, Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Samoa, San Marino, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Sudan, Spain, Sudan, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Zambia.

Against: Belarus, Bolivia, China, Cuba, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Ecuador, Iran, Nicaragua, Russian Federation, Syria, Venezuela, Zimbabwe.

[spooky lynx 73]

I saw plenty of that videos and haven't seen any connection between the video and its annotation in many cases. For example - "Dictator's bloody army shells civilians in al-Blah-blah", where something explodes near the crowd. Who knows for sure, what was this? Why should I trust the guys who have their own agenda? Maybe it's some C4 planted and detonated in front of the camera. So it's clear for me that this endless stream of videos showing 'evil dictatorship crimes' is nothing like another information war. And you may be banned on some forums just if you think that it's not good guys vs bad guys (freedom fighters vs dictator) story. I'm bored while reading Soviet-style comments 'Let's punish that douchebag that kills children and innocent civilians! And if you think different - you will be banned!'... Just like in old good times of Cold war. Hey, if you are so concerned about killed civilians and lack of freedom - why don't you bomb another dictatorships like KSA, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, UAE? Oh wait, they are 'our SOBs' and host our military bases...

[batto 17]

http://wikileaks.org/Syria-Files.html

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I saw plenty of that videos and haven't seen any connection between the video and its annotation in many cases. For example - "Dictator's bloody army shells civilians in al-Blah-blah", where something explodes near the crowd. Who knows for sure, what was this? Why should I trust the guys who have their own agenda? Maybe it's some C4 planted and detonated in front of the camera.

Well, I do agree, though I'm mostly interested in verified, legit engagements between the two armed forces: a lot of IEDs are beings used against Syrian army armour - you can't deny that their vehicle numbers are decreasing by the day.

KSA, Bahrain will get their treatment in due time, Spooky. :) Once we're done with Syria, Afghanistan & Iran, thus securing vital oil infrastructure in the region.

[PELHAM 10]

Spooky is probably right, eg this is clearly fake. It may look like a 180mm shell landing in the city of Homs but what in fact happened is they got all the old ladies in the neighbourhood to shake out their rugs at the same time. It fools the international community on every occasion. What many might not know is they also have an 'army' of special effects experts equiped with various sizes of artificial rubber corpses, 1:1 scale helicopters, aircraft and tanks, they really have you all fooled. There are also complaints from environmentalists that people are despoiling the landscape digging up rocks and sand so they can pile debris in the streets, President Assad has accused the FSA of environmental terrorism.

Latest headlines: Syrian sand and sandbag shortage!

Persistant activities by the Syrian FSA of filling sandbags, wrapping them in sheets and burying them in cemeteries has lead to a national shortage of sandbags and sand. However, President Assad dismissed reports of red paint and white bedsheet shortages as 'western propaganda'.

Edited July 5, 2012 by PELHAM

[katipo66 94]

Are they the same guys who had large rubber WMDs in Iraq? That shit fooled everyone...

lol (cough)

[PELHAM 10]

Are they the same guys who had large rubber WMDs in Iraq? That shit fooled everyone...

lol (cough)

Where do you think they got the rubber for the artificial rubber corpses hmmm? Rubber doesn't just grow on trees you know!

[katipo66 94]

Where do you think they got the rubber for the artificial rubber corpses hmmm? Rubber doesn't just grow on trees you know!

Actually it does :)

[PELHAM 10]

Actually it does :)

Prove it!

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Are they the same guys who had large rubber WMDs in Iraq? That shit fooled everyone...

lol (cough)

Funny thing, actually - Iraq's chemical weapons stockpile migrated to Syria prior to the invasion according to latest intel. :) :) :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

The first and foremost victim in a war is the truth.

[spooky lynx 73]

Spooky is probably right, eg this is clearly fake. It may look like a 180mm shell landing in the city of Homs but what in fact happened is they got all the old ladies in the neighbourhood to shake out their rugs at the same time. It fools the international community on every occasion. What many might not know is they also have an 'army' of special effects experts equiped with various sizes of artificial rubber corpses, 1:1 scale helicopters, aircraft and tanks, they really have you all fooled. There are also complaints from environmentalists that people are despoiling the landscape digging up rocks and sand so they can pile debris in the streets, President Assad has accused the FSA of environmental terrorism.

Latest headlines: Syrian sand and sandbag shortage!

Persistant activities by the Syrian FSA of filling sandbags, wrapping them in sheets and burying them in cemeteries has lead to a national shortage of sandbags and sand. However, President Assad dismissed reports of red paint and white bedsheet shortages as 'western propaganda'.

Haven't you seen a funeral of murdered by bloody regime civilians, whose coffins bounced in the hands of the crowd at the end of the video?;) I've seen such 'funeral'. Those coffins with the corpses were empty and were made of cardboard. But the title of the video stated that it were true funeral of those who died because of the shelling by Assad's army.

Special effects? Yes, you are quite right. Those Russians who live there saw the so called burning houses shelled by the army. In fact it were... burning tires and trash. But filmed from far distance.

So, I can write a number of pages and describe dozens of ways to make a propaganda video, and show examples of that from both sides. But I won't do it because of one reason: some people believe too much in official agenda stating that Assad is murder and opposition consists of angels. Just like in old good times in my country - evil Imperialism, etc. I compare some hardcore commies and some people writing here and realize: sh!t, they are the same! Just change 'evil Western capitalists' to 'evil dictators (Assad, Mubarak, Hussein)' - and you'll get the same picture.

[ProfTournesol 956]

some people believe too much in official agenda stating that Assad is murder and opposition consists of angels.

But do you believe the contrary ?

[spooky lynx 73]

But do you believe the contrary ?

I believe that people are different (I don't mean today's official European sh!tty multiculturalism and political correctness). And what suits to European country and people - may do not suite Middle Eastern one. I mean with all Arabian traditions, way of life and other things it's impossible to hold European-like country. Look at the Libya and Iraq. Yes, there were dictators ruling there. But at the same time they were stable and quiet countries without open religious or tribal wars and daily suicide bombings and terror acts. Dictators were removed, and what's happened? Civil war, insurgency, destruction of all infrastructure and crash of the economy. 'Free' elections but in the destroyed poor country with a little chance to recover. If you, Europeans feel almost like one nation, Arabs live in clans. Clan is the first, nation is the second. So all that clans will fight for gaining the power until new dictator arrives and holds all of them in iron hands.

And I believe that all this mess called Arab spring doesn't have anything with civil rights etc. It's just simple spheres of influence redistribution.

P.S. There's one 'golden' rule of the driver - don't touch anything if it works. So don't disrupt dictatorship if it helps to hold stable secular country. Things can turn worse without dictatorship in some regions. Sad but true.

[ProfTournesol 956]

So don't disrupt dictatorship if it helps to hold stable secular country. Things can turn worse without dictatorship in some regions. Sad but true.

That's why you support Putin and Kadyrov, and hate democracy ?

[spooky lynx 73]

That's why you support Putin and Kadyrov, and hate democracy ?

At first please quote my words about my support of Putin and especially Kadyrov. At second I don't hate democracy but not everybody fully understands it. Some regions and nations must 'grow' for it. Now democracy doesn't suit to every country and nation. So I think every nation must go through its way just like Europeans did. Don't try to bring democracy to the nations that live with some ancient traditions and in absolute monarchies. They must do this in proper time by themselves without any external help.

[PELHAM 10]

That's why you support Putin and Kadyrov, and hate democracy ?

Obviously you have fallen for the propaganda in the Western Media Prof. Didn't you know that Comrade Putin is a great man who has been awarded several accolades for his selfless work on world peace and freedom? After China set up it's own version of the Nobel Peace Prize he was among the first to be awarded it for his "iron hand and toughness" in bringing peace and freedom to Chechnya, his membership of the KGB and tireless support of other men of peace such as Gadaffi.

2011 Winner: Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin

The Confucius Peace Prize: Promotion of world peace from an Eastern, Confucian perspective; to declare China's view on peace and human rights to the world.

No doubt after years of brain washing by the Western Media you will not believe this? Link here to your own corrupt BBC's twisted version of events:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-15750979

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 PM ----------

At first please quote my words about my support of Putin and especially Kadyrov. At second I don't hate democracy but not everybody fully understands it. Some regions and nations must 'grow' for it. Now democracy doesn't suit to every country and nation. So I think every nation must go through its way just like Europeans did. Don't try to bring democracy to the nations that live with some ancient traditions and in absolute monarchies. They must do this in proper time by themselves without any external help.

Well said, the ordinary people of Syria will only fully appreciate Democracy after an extended period of oppression, torture and death. It is the only process that will make them mentally ready and able to accept the responsibility. I personally don't think they will be ready for freedom for at least another 150 years.

Edited July 6, 2012 by PELHAM

[batto 17]

At second I don't hate democracy but not everybody fully understands it. Some regions and nations must 'grow' for it. Now democracy doesn't suit to every country and nation. So I think every nation must go through its way just like Europeans did. Don't try to bring democracy to the nations that live with some ancient traditions and in absolute monarchies. They must do this in proper time by themselves without any external help.

Exactly. Why is it so important to bring democracy to Sunnis? Do these people believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion? I don't think so. It's not really kind of people I sympathize with.

EDIT: Regarding those fake crimes committed by Syria army, true Spooky Lynx, there's much more.

Edited July 6, 2012 by batto

[NoRailgunner 0]

Isn't it just the usual archaic procedure - some tortures and deaths here and there -just like in every good working + healthy "dictoracy". C'mon how can anyone just be so selfish to help someone who has not the same opinion like his dictator/government media/master?? Maybe its just a trendy hippster thingie to support or sympathize with such people who want to see a change but aren't as strong as their dictator.... Now please close your eyes, ears and mouth - nothing about humanity to detect here. :rolleyes:

[batto 17]

Isn't it just the usual archaic procedure - some tortures and deaths here and there -just like in every good working + healthy "dictoracy". C'mon how can anyone just be so selfish to help someone who has not the same opinion like his dictator/government media/master?? Maybe its just a trendy hippster thingie to support or sympathize with such people who want to see a change but aren't as strong as their dictator.... Now please close your eyes, ears and mouth - nothing about humanity to detect here. :rolleyes:

What makes you think it'll change if Sunnis take control?

[PELHAM 10]

Exactly. Why is it so important to bring democracy to Sunnis?

Well said, I think it's blatently unfair that these Syrian Sunnis should que jump! Who the hell do they think they are, demanding this and that. Why should they get democracy first when so many other nations are waiting for it? What about the Iranians, Chinese, Russians, North Koreans, Cubans and Zimbabweans? The Syrians Sunnis should learn from the others example and wait patiently for freedom just like everyone else.