Underwater element. What is the point?

[Flash Thunder 10]

I can already see myself wasting hours on end swimming around Limnos to find Easter eggs/ tiny trolling TM :D

Swimming in Crysis is fun but not nearly as detailed as Arma 3's from those screenshots its looks like they put as much effort into the underwater environment then they did for the above water environments!

Hope the splendid will have some jet ski's and since its futuristic some hovercraft! :cool:

Edited May 4, 2012 by Flash Thunder

[EricM 0]

I forgot to mention the most important point of Underwater + future Setting :

[Daniel 0]

Not much point having an Astute submarine in a ground based combat game (besides the TLAMs) unless you can launch raids and recce missions from her. One of the features i'm really looking forward to.

[[evo] dan 79]

Not much point having an Astute submarine in a ground based combat game (besides the TLAMs) unless you can launch raids and recce missions from her. One of the features i'm really looking forward to.

Hopefully we will be able to move her aswell with us inside (thanks to bis adding slipperyness of surfaces) :D

[Flogger23m 2]

Like what areas?

Animations

AI

Squad command interface

Mission editor

Sounds

More detailed land terrian

More time coding other things

I'm sure it took a decent amount of time to map the sea floor, make the sounds, add the code, code in the diving equipment and systems, the swimming animations, and more. All for something that will probably be used very little. I'd rather have that put into the infantry, were we will spend 99% of the time anyways.

[celery 8]

Animations

AI

Squad command interface

Mission editor

Sounds

More detailed land terrian

More time coding other things

I'm sure it took a decent amount of time to map the sea floor, make the sounds, add the code, code in the diving equipment and systems, the swimming animations, and more. All for something that will probably be used very little. I'd rather have that put into the infantry, were we will spend 99% of the time anyways.

Let's read this again:

Game studios don't have all-purpose resource points that they can move freely between features. They have people who are assigned to do certain things that have to meet certain requirements, i.e. dropping the underwater element wouldn't make textures sharper or above-ground parts of Limnos more detailed. :)

Transferring "resources" to other things by not conceiving specific features is fantasy with the exception of programming. However, don't assume that Arma 3 would have 10% better AI or one more useful button in the editor without the underwater element.

[antoineflemming 14]

Animations

AI

Squad command interface

Mission editor

Sounds

More detailed land terrian

More time coding other things

I'm sure it took a decent amount of time to map the sea floor, make the sounds, add the code, code in the diving equipment and systems, the swimming animations, and more. All for something that will probably be used very little. I'd rather have that put into the infantry, were we will spend 99% of the time anyways.

So you think the guys working on the sea aspect of ArmA3 took away from the animators working on the new animation system? Please explain how? It's not like there are only a couple of people at Bohemia Interactive who have the skill to work on EVERY single feature of the game. The presumption is that it's just a bunch of people sitting in a room, and they all work on whatever they can. There are specific positions and jobs that people have. There are those that work on animations (as in getting those animations working in-game). There are those who are mocap actors. There are sound designers who specifically work with sound. There are artists who specifically work with textures and other in-game art. That's how game studios are organized. It's not a bunch of people sitting together who decide what to work on, and who have to decide what they are going to spend their time on. Yeah, that holds true for a modder, who has to tackle all aspects of his/her mod by him/herself and maybe a couple other people. If there was no underwater element, everything else would be the same. There just wouldn't be an underwater element.

In short, let me break down your argument: there are people assigned to 1) "map the sea floor", another group of people to 2) "make the sounds", another team of employees who 3) "code in the diving equipment and systems", another team of people who 4) work on "the swimming animations". Maybe the people who map the sea floor and those who code in the diving equipment are one team, idk, but it's not one team that has to juggle everything. So time spent on "mapping the sea floor" does not mean time taken away from "making the sounds" or "swimming animations".

[PLRSniper 3]

Animations

AI

Squad command interface

Mission editor

Sounds

More detailed land terrian

More time coding other things

I'm sure it took a decent amount of time to map the sea floor, make the sounds, add the code, code in the diving equipment and systems, the swimming animations, and more. All for something that will probably be used very little. I'd rather have that put into the infantry, were we will spend 99% of the time anyways.

I don't think you get the point so lets try a real world equivalent...

A kid is about to go to sleep, his mother is tucking him in (the gameplay) and reading a story (the storyline) while the father is doing the dishes and keeping things tidy in the houshold. (the engine)

After the father is done with his duties (loading the scenario) he can choose to either prepare a trip with his son to seaworld (the underwater element) or he can join the mother in the process of tucking the boy in and reading the story.

The boy doesn't fancy seaworld that much, but it will be an pleasant experience and he gets to spend some time with his father who otherwise is busy working 10 hours a day to provide for the family. (minimum game requirements)

And there is nothing wrong with the mother, she is perfectly capable of tucking the boy in and reading a story to him. Should the father decide to join her in the tucking in process the whole thing would become over saturated and the boy would just get confused.

As the boy grows up (progresses through the game) he will not have seen seaworld (the underwater element) and would not know of the many diversities of the world around him. He would never have explored the world outside the sandy beaches that border the ocean front and it would simply serve as a flat arid desert land (out of bounds regions), a waste if you ask me.

-------------

Now, i am not particularly fond of the ocean myself. But i have visited underwater worlds in my life. Seen sharks, exotic fish and many other of the mystic things that reside underneath the oceans.

It doesn't give me much direct pleasure, i don't seek to dive into the ocean and explore it but i appreciate it's existence and have a much broader understanding of how that environment and it's ecosystem makes our planet whole.

The same applies to underwater elements in games, it doesn't provide much direct content but it completes the experience and without it the game would just feel well developed at certain key parts while you look at a perfectly flat water grid that is mostly not used for anything at all.

In my little "cool story brah" above i touched on the subject of the father, instead of planning to take his kid to seaworld, would join the mother in the tucking in and telling the story. While that can enrich the experience slightly for a specific part of life you might later wonder why you never went to seaworld. As more and more fathers decide to do what all other fathers do (tell the story), seaworld goes out of business and you never get to see it at all.

Maybe the real question is, have you ever seen what lies below the ocean surface in first person? And do you understand how vitally important that environment is in a military aspect?

The militaries around the world don't go under the ocean surface very often but when they do... They do so to exploit the immense tactical advantage undersea operations give those militaries.

In fact, up to 40% of the USA and Russian power comes from below the surface assets. It's not that there's half the number of people or assets situated below the surface but the few personnel and equipment they have under the surface is enough to wipe out the planet or insert special teams that can (under the cover of the water surface) cause more damage than a force 5,000 men strong could by going on the surface.

...

Not to mention just how little you understand of how big game development works. But that is a completely different subject and one that i would love to see changed.

But simply put, each developer team is focusing on their respective elements of the game. Bringing in more people to do the same job is not always a good thing.

Same as having two parents tucking you in at night at the same time isn't necessary and can in some cases only serves to saturate the experience beyond absurd.

The same as having two chefs cooking one dish at the same time, they just end up stepping on each others toes and the end result isn't as good as it would have been if each chef cooked one dish each.

[kimozabbi 1]

All for something that will probably be used very little.

Your comment is based on pure supposition, it may well turn out that the new underwater element becomes one of Arma3's most popular features.

[SpecOp9 0]

As long as nobody makes Jar Jar Binks I'm totally cool with it, even if there's nothing to do down there.

Not to mention the mod community can do something sweet with it.

[paecmaker 23]

As long as nobody makes Jar Jar Binks I'm totally cool with it, even if there's nothing to do down there.

Not to mention the mod community can do something sweet with it.

For example an underwater evil base :dancehead::dancehead::dancehead:

[Stagler 39]

Underwater evil base? Nah a big naval battle like from the new shite battleship movie!

[Feint 137]

I think the underwater element adds something that is missing from most games on the market and it does it in a sandbox way, not the way COD did it where you are stuck along a guided path the whole time. The ability to explore a world any way you want is a big part of the appeal of the Arma games. If you wanted to, you could just go onto a cool island, get into a civilian car and drive around and explore. No war stuff required. I like that. The way it is now, the fact that you can't simply dive underwater and explore and underwater cave or look at a sunken ship or retrieve a dropped weapon seems like a big limitation. Even without all of the scuba or closed circuit diving stuff, I think you should be able to just hold your breath and dive down.

Plus scuba diving is fun and cool. Being underwater is fun. Sure, you can have some kind of underwater battle with guns that shoot underwater, but to me that not necessary. For me, the possibility of sneaking toward a target submerged is something that appeals to anyone who has ever watched a Navy Seal movie and liked it. I guess if you think underwater infiltration is boring, and a waste of BIS resources, you might as well remove a bunch of other stuff too like HALO and logistics and enterable vehicles.

[james2464 176]

Arma is a platform right? it wouldn't be complete without the ocean.

It will pay dividends later on, BIS has this foresight.

[4 IN 1 0]

If it is there, people will use it

[Stoat 1]

Im surprised there is so much negativity regarding the underwater element of Arma 3. The idea of small groups of divers doing recon missions before the main forces invade, future mods with assaults on tankers out at sea, oil rigs etc and then there's the possibility of inserting into a port and blowing the enemy boats out of the water without even being noticed. With combat on land and in the air it was only time before BIS looked to the sea.

[nodunit 397]

Just think..navigating dangerous minefields, swimming to a hostile land while avoiding boats and other things. Exploring a mysterious under water city, having an under water race, navigating caves made of rocks, the possibilities are only limited to the imagination!

[Themarksman802 1]

So we can all pretend we are navy seals :) and slap other wannabe type games in the face and say HAW at least our scuba torpedoes are controllable!

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Im surprised there is so much negativity regarding the underwater element of Arma 3...

First Post, welcome, and ...you'll get used to it.

I'm looking forward to re-enacting every underwater scene from the James Bond films

[icebreakr 3107]

I sure hope that missiles won't lock to underwater vehicles :) well, unless there will be one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_missile ;)

[Dragonshot 1]

The underwater environment has been replicated with uncanny accuracy, I can almost feel the water. Compare -

DnFy1IvvIGM

MaBuusXrcq4

[NoRailgunner 0]

The underwater viewdistance seems to be too high in A3 compared to real diving/underwater activities. Just curious if we will see the refraction of light in A3 too?

[MissionCreep 12]

The underwater viewdistance seems to be too high in A3 compared to real diving/underwater activities. Just curious if we will see the refraction of light in A3 too?

It would be interesting to see what happens to bullets fired from the air into the water at targets. I believe the bullet will obey Snell's law as well. The angle of refraction will depend on the velocity and at some point, bullets will ricochet. I saw a "Mythbusters" episode that demonstrated how bullets shatter after traversing only about 3 feet of water (including an M85 50 calibre). I believe the higher the velocity and calibre, the more rapidly the bullet disintegrated. So if you can dive deep enough and long enough (even without oxygen) you should be able to dive with a chance at evading bullets.

[Robster 11]

Underwater vision isn't that clear as thin air, since water, specially from sea, is more dense... so I guess that some kind of foggy/blurry effect should do the trick as seen it the real video above... anyways, lightning refaction is marvelous!!! :D

[Horner 13]

Just wondering what made you decide to add this underwater stuff? It's very cool, but I just wonder what the point of it is, and is it really worth the extra development time?

:nono:

Have you played ArmA? The game is focused on doing anything you want. Anything that maximizes things you can do is never "not worth the extra development time."