How to improve the Close Quarter Combat experience in Arma 3?

[metalcraze 290]

But it isn't me who started discussing how stuff is done in BF3.

And yes I wrote why no collision implementation is wrong. And no - no matter how you push M16 to you - you still won't be able to turn around in tight corridors. Takistani buildings have corridors less than 1m wide. Yet I can easily navigate them with M16 which plus my body and backpack easily makes my soldier twice as wide as the corridor.

And yes - this actually ruins CQB for me because even dudes with M240 (a 1.26m long gun) can easily sweep buildings now like they have perma /noclip on. Clearly that's a total improvement to CQB.

A COMMONLY USED MANUAVER

Blindfire is not a commonly used manoeuvre. It's not even a manoeuvre. Manoeuvre = movement.

OH MY GOD YOU CAN RUN AND SIDE JUMP OVER A SHORT BARRIER

Actually no, not with a heavy backpack you can't. Just because BF3 has something doesn't mean it's possible under all conditions.

Why won't we implement rocket jumping from Quake 3 then? Implementing rocket jumping from Quake 3 won't turn ArmA3 into Quake 3. I just don't understand why the soldier needs to climb ladders to get to the roof when he can just shoot a rocket under his feet and get there in an instant, especially under fire this is important.

Edited April 3, 2012 by metalcraze

[zamani532 1]

But it isn't me who started discussing how stuff is done in BF3.

And yes I wrote why no collision implementation is wrong. And no - no matter how you push M16 to you - you still won't be able to turn around in tight corridors. Takistani buildings have corridors less than 1m wide. Yet I can easily navigate them with M16 which plus my body and backpack easily makes my soldier twice as wide as the corridor.

And yes - this actually ruins CQB for me because even dudes with M240 (a 1.26m long gun) can easily sweep buildings now like they have perma /noclip on. Clearly that's a total improvement to CQB.

Actually it is metalcraze, I suggested you can side jump in real life, and BF3 did it perfectly I'd like to see this quick maneuver implemented in arma3. Then you somehow twisted by words and spat out "I want ArmA into BF3".

Yeah no.

Please leave, you're a troll and I wish you banned.

[Whirly 1]

I know the type of combat people here want, they want the same as I want. This -

http://pumpkinseedsmedia.com/fallujahflash.html

[zamani532 1]

But it isn't me who started discussing how stuff is done in BF3.

And yes I wrote why no collision implementation is wrong. And no - no matter how you push M16 to you - you still won't be able to turn around in tight corridors. Takistani buildings have corridors less than 1m wide. Yet I can easily navigate them with M16 which plus my body and backpack easily makes my soldier twice as wide as the corridor.

And yes - this actually ruins CQB for me because even dudes with M240 (a 1.26m long gun) can easily sweep buildings now like they have perma /noclip on. Clearly that's a total improvement to CQB.

Blindfire is not a commonly used manoeuvre. It's not even a manoeuvre. Manoeuvre = movement.

Actually no, not with a heavy backpack you can't. Just because BF3 has something doesn't mean it's possible under all conditions.

Why won't we implement rocket jumping from Quake 3 then? Implementing rocket jumping from Quake 3 won't turn ArmA3 into Quake 3. I just don't understand why the soldier needs to climb ladders to get to the roof when he can just shoot a rocket under his feet and get there in an instant, especially under fire this is important.

You're either a troll or drunk, I'm amazed.

[batto 17]

I just don't understand why the soldier needs to climb ladders to get to the roof when he can just shoot a rocket under his feet and get there in an instant, especially under fire this is important.

Beacuse rocket jumping also takes some health U NOOB =)

@zamani532: ARMA3 will never be like BF3. Deal with it. Suffer. Get infraction.

I hope someone from BIS is looking on this thread. ARMA taking on where Ubisoft screwed up with R6 would make me so happy... :bounce3:

[rye1 21]

And yes - this actually ruins CQB for me because even dudes with M240 (a 1.26m long gun) can easily sweep buildings now like they have perma /noclip on. Clearly that's a total improvement to CQB.

And that was a good point, one man clan mentioned something that could be applicable to you.

[zamani532 1]

Beacuse rocket jumping also takes some health U NOOB =)

@zamani532: ARMA3 will never be like BF3. Deal with it. Suffer. Get infraction.

I hope someone from BIS is looking on this thread. ARMA taking on where Ubisoft screwed up with R6 would make me so happy... :bounce3:

You're also stupid.

Where did I say I wanted ArmA3 to be BF3? Citation needed my friend :). my god are the majority here really this dumb? I'm used to moderated forums, sorry if I get a little angry at trolls like you.

Edited April 3, 2012 by zamani532

[NoRailgunner 0]

Imo many games do lack proper feedback to the player so he is kinda safe doing funny things. Perhaps there is a good solution to "auto" lower/raise your weapon without making it too easy? Or make the movement/animations more smooth and natural with full control from player?? Guess the later wish is a bit more tricky and challenging than using "auto-mode" or "workaround (clipping) - mode". Beside dreaming about proper collision system in A3 what about crossing fingers for speed adjustments controlled by player eg more gradual or fluent movements? :)

[metalcraze 290]

I agreed with him actually. Also that video Whirly posted is quite good. In fact when soldiers go through tight corridors there you can often see what one man clan meant. They lower their weapons and upon getting into a more open space (like a roof) they immediately raise them. If BIS can implement some kind of adaptive animations based on your distance with a weapon from a wall - it would be properly awesome. They can also use some wide, barely visible marker to give a hint to a player where his weapon will point upon raising (since IRL you can make that estimation naturally). That way it will be both realistic and comfortable. If a player will want some more freedom with weapon - SMGs or pistols will be the way to go. Less "stopping force" but more freedom and vice versa.

Not only that but it's seen how soldiers clean rooms there. The door is closed so they kick it and enter immediately en force (no strafing with M4/M16 like it's now). The thing is - ArmA2 has a door kicking animation (you can see it on many concept screenshots by modders) - I wonder why BIS never implemented it as a gameplay element though (the way of opening doors now with a mouse wheel is clunky - I agree). Not finished static animation?

[rye1 21]

That sounds quite good metalcraze. I suppose I personally could counter the long weapon stuff getting caught by leaning into the room while moving in, or the auto-system tucking it in for me as I enter. This may create a mini-delay and slight, ever so slight advantage to the defenders but it would make up for it with the points you stated early - fools running around with M107s in room clearance etc.

I know the type of combat people here want, they want the same as I want. This -

http://pumpkinseedsmedia.com/fallujahflash.html

That is craziness.

[zamani532 1]

I agreed with him actually. Also that video Whirly posted is quite good. In fact when soldiers go through tight corridors there you can often see what one man clan meant. They lower their weapons and upon getting into a more open space (like a roof) they immediately raise them. If BIS can implement some kind of adaptive animations based on your distance with a weapon from a wall - it would be properly awesome. They can also use some wide, barely visible marker to give a hint to a player where his weapon will point upon raising (since IRL you can make that estimation naturally). That way it will be both realistic and comfortable. If a player will want some more freedom with weapon - SMGs or pistols will be the way to go. Less "stopping force" but more freedom and vice versa.

Not only that but it's seen how soldiers clean rooms there. The door is closed so they kick it and enter immediately en force (no strafing with M4/M16 like it's now). The thing is - ArmA2 has a door kicking animation (you can see it on many concept screenshots by modders) - I wonder why BIS never implemented it as a gameplay element though (the way of opening doors now with a mouse wheel is clunky - I agree). Not finished static animation?

Because if there is a guy on the other side of the door all he has to do is prone with a machine gun and kill you all.

Tacticool does not always work in multiplayer games.

[rye1 21]

Well that's a tactical issue, as you mentioned. And there is many ways to counter a door ambush. That has nothing to do with what BIS can do zamani. :p

[metalcraze 290]

If there is a guy on the other side you can always kill him through a wall without ever entering.

[Smurf 12]

Discussing the lower\rise weapon stuff? Its been done (right) numerous times before: Americas Army 2 and 3, Insurgency (IIRC), Infiltration mod, RO2 - those last two also have weapon collisoin shile in ironsights, so you have a hard time while deploying\resting the weapon in a, for example, window frame.

Getting the things done right in other games don´t turn ARMA into the other game....

[zamani532 1]

Discussing the lower\rise weapon stuff? Its been done (right) numerous times before: Americas Army 2 and 3, Insurgency (IIRC), Infiltration mod, RO2 - those last two also have weapon collisoin shile in ironsights, so you have a hard time while deploying\resting the weapon in a, for example, window frame.

Getting the things done right in other games don´t turn ARMA into the other game....

Not according to metalcraze and whats his name, arma2 is now RO2 according to your post and metalcrazes logic :)

[W0lle 1050]

@zamani532

We have a couple of rules here you accepted as you joined, like the one saying "No flaming or bigotry", yet you repeatedly called people stupid or telling them to kill themselves in PMs.

Or the one saying not to write in all capital letters, which you did recently too.

What I'd like to see from you is some decency instead of labeling every battlefield player as a child, its considerably harder then ArmA2 due to the larger and more competitive community.

Well, from your behavior shown in just this thread it's no surprise that BF players are labelled as "childs". Your behavior is actually childish, I hope that you're not a typical BF player but an exception.

The above rule violations may be accepted in BF, here they lead to infractions given and finally in a ban from the forums.

[-Coulum- 35]

Like the Idea of auto raising lowering when not using sights and applying collisions when sighted. Visual or audio feedback attached to collisions would be nice as well to avoid shooting window sills and ledges you think you are shooting over.

Door kicking actions would be great fun and I think fluid door opening would be useful for opening doors a crack, chucking a grenade in and closing it again.

[wipman 1]

Hi, for improve the CQB:

- Be able of cook grenades.

- Have working (visual and audio) flashbangs.

- Fluid anims and imput response.

- Well sized places (thick corridors etc).

- Switch Lower Weapon On/Off key.

- Lower weapon & unable to fire when in touch with a unit of the same side with the weapon.

- Realistic (few) weapon dancing side to side, on suppossed flat surfaces.

- Kick/push/weapon strike and fall animations.

- Upper torso more independent from the hips without affect the weapon dancing.

- Higher FOV (zoom out, 1:1) indoor.

I think that this things could help. Let's C ya

[onlyrazor 11]

Agreed on the grenade cooking. Since grenades in Arma can not be sighted down, the right mouse button could be used to cook the grenade before throwing.

[Steakslim 1]

Better grenade throwing alone would be nice. It's pretty difficult to throw a grenade just where you want it, especially if it's to something near-by or just over a wall, and even worse if you get stuck in some throwing animation that causes the grenade to be thrown short.

additionally a roll or underhand toss option would be nice. Right mouse button for underhand, left mouse button for over hand. That alone would generate some versatility with the grenade throwing in the game, but of course things could be much better.

[Bee8190 10]

Yes, I also hope the grenade throwing will get bit more intuitive although I have no more ''such'' hard time as I used to ;). Still, Improvement would be welcome.

Somebody propably mentioned this already but are there any hints about lighter soldier loadaout will have any impact on soldier quieteness while walking in forest etc..?

[twisted 128]

The automatic weapon lowering is also done in other games, to good effect. Additionally, in order to leave smaller, lighter weapons with an advantage in CQB, the time needed to raise a heavier weapon after it has been lowered could be made slightly higher (i.e. it's more difficult to raise an M249 than an SMG).

The idea of the weapon still colliding with the wall while sighted is a good one - however I would make two additional suggestions:

1. Make any weapon collision with a wall audible and jar the sights, as in real life. Aural/visual feedback is always helpful. ;)

these would be great additions, especially the refinement of weapon movement speed based on its size and weight.

[rye1 21]

BIS haven't confirmed or even mentioned anything to do with the grenade system today, have they?

That's a shame, I was hoping to hear more. I think it would be high on my priority list as a gamer, and to potentially attract more gamers (Especially for PVP).

Bee8190 - What do you mean by intuitive? I was hoping to get some confirmation on them at least working on it, nevermind any kind of intuitive system to operate a grenade.

The single, unmoveable animation you do to throw a grenade in Arma 2 is appauling. Nevermind the fact that it's totally inaccurate like you're having a fit while throwing it. Cough up some anti-spasmodic pills and help fix this BIS.

Haven't you ever played other games? The amount of times a grenade is used, the amount of situations you come across where you could use one, the survivability it gives you and therefore playability and fun.

Remember the good old days?

Almost every round in the America's Army series has a grenade kill or wound someone.

SWAT 4 and stinger (stun ball grenade) heaven.

Raven Shield, popping a door and sending in an under-thrown flashbang.

Speaking of different throwing options, ACE successfully did this - and it worked pretty swell - add to this physics and new engine capabilities and I bet BIS could get it spot on.

I think it has been long-awaited. Talk of improving Close Quarter Battle? Well this item, and the way you could potentially use it accurately in game, fixes half of the problems. It doesn't have to be special, just useable.

I hope we hear from BIS or a representative about this aspect of the game soon.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Rye
Another video added.

[jonneymendoza 10]

to improve CQC it shoudl be as responsive as BF3 imo. basicaly use BF3 CQC engine and slap on the usual realistic weapon handling and physics.

[onlyrazor 11]

to improve CQC it shoudl be as responsive as BF3 imo. basicaly use BF3 CQC engine and slap on the usual realistic weapon handling and physics.

You do know that there is no such thing as a 'CQC engine', right? Do you mean the system that controls the animations? A better and more responsive animation system would be nice, but just ripping it out of BF3 wouldn't work. The devs would have to jump through all sorts of legal loopholes and fork over some serious money and even then it's not certain.