Ragdolling players without killing them?

[Cookieeater 10]

Is it a good idea to allow ragdolling to simulate other events happening to the player other else than death? There are many other non-lethal ways that ragdoll can be implemented in to improve the immersion. After the ragdoll simulation is over, the player can either transition into the prone position, or the incapacitated position if wounded enough.

Situations that ragdoll could be used for other else than dying:

Being struck by a vehicle

Crippled by a nearby explosion

Shot in the leg or shot in the body with a high caliber round

Shot with a beanbag, or a grenade from a grenade launcher

Ejecting from vehicles while moving

Feigning death

Edited March 16, 2012 by Cookieeater

[rye1 21]

Great ideas. I loved that about GTA. The only difference is in Arma you would probably have your legs broken, decreased mobility, etc.

[Whirly 1]

Creative thinking Cookieeater, love your ideas!

[Flash Thunder 10]

Taser rag doll animation FTW!!!!!

I agree, it would be sweet too if they were played out in first person view, being chucked back from a large explosion onto your back for example.

[Maio 293]

Taser rag doll animation FTW!!!!!

I agree, it would be sweet too if they were played out in first person view, being chucked back from a large explosion onto your back for example.

Shochwave simulation has been confirmed for some time, the thing is we dont know if it's only for "blowback" simulation that results in the players death or as you said. Also blending from animation to ragdoll is also confirmed so...

[Whirly 1]

Ooh yeah, epic idea Flash Thunder!

[EDcase 87]

Ragdoll is one of the things I'm most happy about but I don't really want to see bodies flying all over the place if they are next to a satchel charge.

For grenades and being further from large explosions would be great but being caught in a large explosion or tank shell should make the body vanish altogether. (Preferably in a red cloud)

Being hit by a vehicle is a great idea. I don't know if it will be possible to transition from a ragdoll pose (random) back to animation to make them get up again. We'll have to wait and see.

How about poison/sleeping gas....?

[Tonci87 163]

Nice Idea!

[-Coulum- 35]

Shot in the leg or shot in the body with a high caliber round

Not just high caliber weapons. There should be a chance that any hit from any weapon should cause you to go limp realize you were only hit in the vest or not hit badly and then get up. The higher the caliber the more likely you would be rag dolled. Nobody likes to be shot and many peoples reaction to it is simple to drop. I even had a friend that totally collapsed when shot playing paintball let alone shot by an actual bullet.

These are all good ideas, and I hope bis has the ability to do this:

transition from a ragdoll pose (random) back to animation to make them get up again. We'll have to wait and see.

[VictorFarbau 0]

Nice topic... I remember the days when I was into embedded programming a long time ago. We essentially simulated damage to a moving object (robot) by attributing agility parameters to each functional group (legs, arms). The more damage taken (based on caliber e.g.) the higher the effect on the agility parameter. And this parameter was then broken down into speed and coordination values. Random value weighting was done so that sometimes for example an arm would still move correctly but very slowly; sometimes it would just wobble around (no coordination) but in normal speed. As easy as it is to implement, it simulated a random injury on a sufficient level for our model, where sometimes nerves are hit, sometimes the muscles, sometimes both.

VictorFarbau

[batto 17]

Not only from weapon hits. Falls & passangers in car or boat should be ragdolled too.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i think that the ragdoll should serve too to simulate be spitted out by the blast shock wave of fat bombs or deflagrations in general and not only the force that a bullet does againist the flesh or gear. Let's C ya

[Smurf 12]

I suggested that once and they thought I was asking a for a "rocket jumping" mod. :rolleyes:

Well, hard to assume anything since we don´t know what is the new animation system. DEV BLOG ABOUT IT NAO!

[Cookieeater 10]

Feigning death can easily be added in too by letting players choose the option to stay in ragdoll mode instead of going prone.

[Whirly 1]

I don't know if it will be possible to transition from a ragdoll pose (random) back to animation to make them get up again.

That is going to be the determining factor.

[onlyrazor 11]

I have no idea about the term about to be used and should just keep my mouth shut, but, I thought you could use inverse kinematics to do that.

[PuFu 4600]

I have no idea about the term about to be used and should just keep my mouth shut, but, I thought you could use inverse kinematics to do that.

I guess that is because you read the misleading information on wiki. It has nothing to do with the discussion.

Here is an easy example:

In the above case, the only thing animated is the wheel turning (simple rotation). The mechanical arm is NOT animated, only rigged and set as IK from that wheel.

So instead of needing to animate the hand and it's individual parts, you only need to animate the wheel, and the rest of the animation transfers itself back into the arm

Of course you could do it the other way around: animating the hand that will turn the wheel (setup as IK), but that would be a waste of time in this case since it would take at least twice as much to do it.

What it is used for: for instance, changing gears in a car: it is much easier to animate the gear lever for each individual car, then set a characters hand in position and tell it to IK from that particular object, than animating the character for whole lot of range of cars. Same goes for the wheel.

Another example would be a sword fight. It would be a lot easier (and more precise and dramatic) to animate the swords movement and the character would follow it rather the other way around. In this case you would most likely need to animate the lower part of the body (legs) separatly, but still a lot easier than dealing with the average of 24 bones/character (excluding the fingers and toes).

Hope the above was pretty easy to follow.

_________

back on the subject:

Recovering from ragdolls (using physix) should be more than possible after the end of the ragdoll, but not during it.

So, at least in theory, you could have a lad collapse after being shot, then recover totally if that is what is wanted.

Note that things like being teased or punched in the face or anything along those lines cannot be handled by physix, needing a specific animation instead.

Conclussion: Ragdolls are NOT a cure for all the problems, and they do have limitation. Even a system such euphoria has such limitations, even though a lot have been amended.

Edited March 16, 2012 by PuFu

[Robster 11]

I was shocked by a near grenade in a i44 TVT... camera was moving uncontrolled and my ears were whistling, it would be nice to see that players were restrained and loosely pushed half, one or two meters away in such non lethal situation... but I guess it must be something quite difficult to achieve ...

[onlyrazor 11]

Informative post

Thanks for the information, pal.

On the other hand, just a knockdown animation would be nice. Not as fluid, but it'd do. I think I got knocked down by an explosion in ACE once or twice.

[pd3 25]

AFAIK this is referred to as "inverse kinematics", and its something that has been exceedingly slow to show up within games since its theoretically been around since the early 00s.

[PuFu 4600]

AFAIK this is referred to as "inverse kinematics", and its something that has been exceedingly slow to show up within games since its theoretically been around since the early 00s.

it isn't. read 3 posts above yours

[krazikilla 5]

Only thing which is needed to be shown here:

BIS, do it please :D

[Whirly 1]

Only thing which is needed to be shown here:

BIS, do it please :D

In terms of gameplay I can't really see any common connection with Arma3, nevertheless I'm highly impressed with those ragdoll animations.

[froggyluv 2136]

Hehe, Overgrowth. Haven't downloaded one of their Alpha's in a couple of months but those guys are amazing. Its like they just hear of a new tech and have to plug it in. Here's an interesting read on their lead dev: http://blog.wolfire.com/2008/09/team-introduction-david/

Now back to that ragdolling - would be awesome but what would happen if you shot #2 in a squad traversing a mountain's edge like above and he went tumbling down a good quarter mile.

"2, return to formation"

.......tumbles...

"2, Get Back!"

....wildly gains speed tumbling"

"2!"

......

[b00ce 160]

In terms of gameplay I can't really see any common connection with Arma3, nevertheless I'm highly impressed with those ragdoll animations.

It would have everything to do with gameplay and immersion. Imagine being close enough to an explosion to get knocked off your feet but not die, hit by a car, etc. But while you're flying, you're covering your head and trying to protect yourself. It COULD also pave the way for hand to hand/knife/bayonet/baton/sword/etc. fighting because all you'd need are weapons, animations and cutting/blunt damage. The engine would handle the reactions to the blows.

Also, what froggy said. lol