Guess Who 10 Posted February 7, 2012 In my opinion the two major factors of the absolutely "not kindly reception" (at least at my place) were:1. Bugful and unplayable SP campaign 2. The stupidness of the 1.0 AI 1. Say what you will but only mentioning the word "Manhattan" together with Arma 2 - everyone at German gaming press (magazines + readers) will know what this refers to. :) The campaign (which is the heart of the presentation of the game*) was a failure in this matter because of annoying and even showstopping mission designing bugs. And the problem is: This can happen with every new campaign, no matter how developed the game is. Because of this I welcome the delay of the release! This way the campaign can be polished so that an Harvest Red-disaster hopefully won't happen again. 2. You're right when you say that regaring the actual state of the AI, it should not be a problem in Arma 3. But does anyone remember this same story when the AI of Arma 1 was pretty good with the final patches before Arma 2 came out? Many people thought that Arma 2 would not have AI problems because the Arma 1's had been shaped up pretty well. But what happened: The AI was absolutely overwhelmed and overstrained by the new detailful environment and engine of Arma 2. Much more objects, much more tasks, etc. This is the fear that I have for Arma 3 too. Hopefully I'm wrong here - and the delay to Q4 (aside with the great beta patch-system and BI working closer with the community) should help a lot. * by heart of the presentation I mean: What will players usually do right after installing a / the game? They will check the option menu and then play the campaign. Usually not the Multiplayer or the Editor. As written earlier, Manhattan didn't have any showstopper for me. Version 1.0.1 wa actually worse. And who the hell would give a dime for german game magazines. They have proven time and again that they are cheap. Emm, I've been around since 2001 and to this day we didn't get a polished product out (not even long awaited v1.60 for that matter). As you can see there are more than 900 open issues in the bugtracker. I don't like to accept something for "as is" if it can be fixed. Its become really scary in some situations - like seeing A3 screenshot of a AI standing on the edge of the cliff and first thing that pops in your mind is "AI will fall down" ;)Now me & my team are waiting to get a headshot from AI across the map.... by a laser ;) I'm with Sickboy here. Ice, you should know you can't make software bugfree; that would be a paradoxon. And most other developers wouldn't even consider 899 of the 900 bugs you mention as bugs; even less they would consider to fix. I know you're complaining about the skill/precision feature. The decision to remove the possiblilty to tweak it was a little short sighted. But there are still ways around it. Maybe I am just more confident because I am used to tweak little things to my liking since OFP. That works all the time, especially in ArmA. It's just not for everyone, just like ArmA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Undeceived 392 Posted February 7, 2012 As written earlier, Manhattan didn't have any showstopper for me. Version 1.0.1 wa actually worse.You didn't have showstoppers. But others (e.g. me and the testers of the magazines, which feed the masses) had. :)And who the hell would give a dime for german game magazines. Apparently those many people, who maybe could have bought the game but didn't because of the tests of the magazines. Simple, isn't it? It's not relevant if you (or me) think that the magazines are cheap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoRailgunner 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Most people want to install + enjoy the game they have bought without beeing forced to find & use workarounds or waiting too long until bugs/issues are fixed. What's wrong with making quality products? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Undeceived 392 Posted February 7, 2012 Most people want to install + enjoy the game they have bought without beeing forced to find & use workarounds or waiting too long until bugs/issues are fixed. What's wrong with making quality products? :D Very good point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sw1 10 Posted February 7, 2012 Now that I've managed to stop sobbing :D, I must admit that it seems sensible of BIS to defer the release rather than sell a half-finished product. We can only hope that the world doesn't end first :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
froggyluv 2130 Posted February 7, 2012 I thought the upgrade from Arma1 to Arma2 in terms of AI was substantial and could never go back -bugs and all. As I remember every signifigant AI modder exclaimed there was just no way in hell to get the AI to take corners and cover properly -they could only get the, "near cover". Thats a make or break deal when it comes to realistic firefights as "near cover" just don't cut it int the real world -so bugs and all, a worthwhile and necessary upgrade in my opinion. All major upgrades in this type of all encompassing engine are going to lead to bugs in a cascading effect and I don't forsee an extra 6 months squashing them in light of added PhysX, Animations and god knows what for AI (interior cqb perhaps?). I'm fine with whenever they want to release their product but just don't think it's realistic to predict a bug free release. Most game take the easy road and keep rehashing the same game over and over cept new flashy visual effects that I could give a monkey's banana about. I don't think I've seen a genuinely interesting title with revolutionary game mechanic in a looong time -M&B being the only contender I can think of - so to me some bugs are an expected evil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JojoTheSlayer 35 Posted February 8, 2012 Q4 only mean your future planed upgrades to run the game will be cheaper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guess Who 10 Posted February 8, 2012 You didn't have showstoppers. But others (e.g. me and the testers of the magazines, which feed the masses) had. :)Apparently those many people, who maybe could have bought the game but didn't because of the tests of the magazines. Simple, isn't it? It's not relevant if you (or me) think that the magazines are cheap. Most people want to install + enjoy the game they have bought without beeing forced to find & use workarounds or waiting too long until bugs/issues are fixed. What's wrong with making quality products? Hey, come on guys, I like polished products as much as any one else. I did never state otherwise. But ArmA get's better over time, we all know that, and I actually believe I'm not alone. And I would miss something if it was different. What I really wanted to convey is, that I'm confident that ArmA III will be the best iteration of the RV engine to date because of the circumstances of it's development. Every little bit of improvement that is done in the beta program and the coming full patches will more or less directly lead to it. So it really doesn't matter much if it is postponed for six or twelve month. BIS get's more time for "polishing" and we all have the chance to assist and influence the outcome. Where else would you have that opportunity? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Madmill 10 Posted February 8, 2012 Q4 only mean your future planed upgrades to run the game will be cheaper. If you can wait to upgrade, I can't wait any longer, fed up of running A2 on a single core AMD. Been waiting for the new Intel chips and A3! Since getting A2 as a Christmas gift A2 is all I have ran, can't go back to tunnel shooters! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JojoTheSlayer 35 Posted February 8, 2012 If you can wait to upgrade, I can't wait any longer, fed up of running A2 on a single core AMD. Been waiting for the new Intel chips and A3!Since getting A2 as a Christmas gift A2 is all I have ran, can't go back to tunnel shooters! I already have a i7-920, 6gigs and a GTX480 so could wait even a bit more than a year, but even if I couldnt I would wait for Ivy Bridge before upgrading CPU/Motherboard. Unless you wanna pay the same price for something that is not mainstream anymore only a few months from now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Madmill 10 Posted February 8, 2012 I already have a i7-920, 6gigs and a GTX480 so could wait even a bit more than a year, but even if I couldnt I would wait for Ivy Bridge before upgrading CPU/Motherboard. Unless you wanna pay the same price for something that is not mainstream anymore only a few months from now. Oh I'm waiting for april / may time, no worries, i want to see the reviews of the new chips also new AMD graphics cards before i buy. I'm a Yorkshire man, I want me moneys worth! If A3 is going to be 6mths to a year as a few suppose I want the best i can afford. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Undeceived 392 Posted February 9, 2012 Maruk on Shacknews: "We did not reveal an exact release date previously, but our target was for some time and still is Q4 2012 (instead of early plans of late Summer that was announced initially)," Bohemia CEO Marek Španěl said in a statement provided to Shacknews. "However, we are prepared to give development additional time if it will need it to ensure as good an experience as possible." Even another delay into 2013 would be ok for me! Good job, BIS! Keep it up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danny96 79 Posted February 15, 2012 Well, I'd like for playing at least public test ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steakslim 1 Posted February 15, 2012 You know I was about to ask why there is a 12 page discussion over the change of an already vague release schedule for this game....but then I realized we've been getting recycled bits of the same info since september. Dammit BIS i wants new info! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarlGustaffa 4 Posted February 18, 2012 Well I hate games released in the summer. Arma2 made me fat! :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTCCoco 1 Posted February 19, 2012 Well I hate games released in the summer. Arma2 made me fat! :D Haha. Balance, balance... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
