Will this version get some polishing, or is it another sputtering Ferrari?

[Flash Thunder 10]

In OA with latest stable patch 1.60

puts a terrorist down in a field, has no night vision and able to walk right in front of his face and he does absolutely nothing...

I have a Scar with a suppressor, thermal scope, shot a bullet in the terrorists general area from about 20 meters away.

Have fun trying to survive without killing him fast.

Seriously the AI in the game is garbage I really don't get all the hype about it. Why can I be touching his weapon and he doesn't shoot me at all, then I shoot a suppressed weapon once in his general area then he's terminator on steroids?

Someone reproduce this Im sure its not only happening for me.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Flash Thunder

[frostwyrm333 1]

units placed in editor do not behave normally unless they have some sort of waypoint. Its not really realistic to put a soldier somewhere and he has no idea about his surroundings and no goals. Try patrol or guard or smt like that.

[Flash Thunder 10]

units placed in editor do not behave normally unless they have some sort of waypoint. Its not really realistic to put a soldier somewhere and he has no idea about his surroundings and no goals. Try patrol or guard or smt like that.

Why should someone have to do all that just to get the AI to do basic functions?

Just did some more testing, I made it 2200hours raining, my screen is just black cant even see my own gun without NV, placed a group of Russian infantry 400 meters away they have NV too but they're sniping me with an AK from 400 meters away after me only shooting one bullet and they're not facing me.

Something is definitely wrong here LOL, they all do 180's spend about a nanosecond aiming their super weapons then im light up from 400 meters with an AK, yes the effective range of an AK is about 350 meters but don't you need to have your weapon sighted to shoot that far? For a milsim the AI should have to account for range and all that aswell and maybe take alittle to aim? :eek:

Also found out that IR lasers do nothing if you shine them in the AI's face unless I guess you script them too react....

[frostwyrm333 1]

For me, AI works quite fine, Im not sure about AI sniping you from 400m, they usually cant hit anything at those ranges. I havent experienced something like that.

What kind of AI options do you use? IR lasers - they do not react to light except for visibility checks.

And waypoints, yes, without waypoint, they just stand there, it is lame but it has its logic. Also grouped enemies work much better than separate.

[maddogx 13]

Also found out that IR lasers do nothing if you shine them in the AI's face unless I guess you script them too react....

Perhaps because IR is outside of the visual spectrum? :rolleyes:

[Flash Thunder 10]

Perhaps because IR is outside of the visual spectrum? :rolleyes:

Night Vision??

http://www.imaging1.com/images/AN_PVS-7_NVG_GEN_3_with_Infrared_Laser_illuminator_aimer.gif

Edited January 19, 2012 by Flash Thunder

[NoRailgunner 0]

Please give us some more details about the mission setup so we can repro it or just upload this mission. What kind of AI setting do you have - default or custom?

[Flash Thunder 10]

Please give us some more details about the mission setup so we can repro it or just upload this mission. What kind of AI setting do you have - default or custom?

Its vanilla AI I used to have Zeus ai enabled.

the parameters on the individual AI are unchanged from what they're when you just place them in editor, but the settings in the difficulty are really low, like 33 for enemy AI, and 90 for friendly units, seems this setting doesn't have any effect at all, they still snipe you well beyond effective range.

Im still messing around with it all, if i feel compelled I'll post a video (apparently Xfire video don't work on OA even though I got it enabled in game) or a mission file. Its not the fact that they're shooting me beyond effective range they certainly can, but there speed and accuracy is plain ridiculous, no one at night would acquire a target at 500meters in a fraction of a second and be able to land bullets within 5 feet of them. This is what I want fixed its game breaking for me.

[frostwyrm333 1]

why on earth did you turn off zeus

[Flash Thunder 10]

why on earth did you turn off zeus

because if im going to complain about BIS AI i cant be running third party code...

[NoRailgunner 0]

1. use only vanilla AI to complain about vanilla AI

2. latest beta AI settings (see AI difficulty options) got a bit changed:

AI precission = AI skill x 1.8 - 0.8

Try default AI presets (click Recruit/Regular/Veteran/Mercenary) to find what you like/dislike. Customize/tune AI with the skill slider and hope that BIS will implement an precission slider or even more AI configs.

3. more mission details or mission upload :)

Zeus AI is more or less obsolete (no updates for a long time) if you like try Robalo's ASR AI Addons (not updated yet/not fully tested for latest betabuild).

[Flash Thunder 10]

Sorry if this is going off topic i'll continue my AI discussion else where.

[frostwyrm333 1]

dont worry, this topic is composed of off topic

[myshaak 0]

In OA with latest stable patch 1.60

puts a terrorist down in a field, has no night vision and able to walk right in front of his face and he does absolutely nothing...

I have a Scar with a suppressor, thermal scope, shot a bullet in the terrorists general area from about 20 meters away.

Have fun trying to survive without killing him fast.

Seriously the AI in the game is garbage I really don't get all the hype about it. Why can I be touching his weapon and he doesn't shoot me at all, then I shoot a suppressed weapon once in his general area then he's terminator on steroids?

Someone reproduce this Im sure its not only happening for me.

Can you tell me the time, weather and location? I am using one of the latest beta patches and even in pitch black the enemy can hear footsteps (sometimes too well) and begins to look in my direction/in the direction of sound movement. He won't fire only when I approached him by crawling but even then he heard me (cca from 3-5m away) and scanned for threats.

I just tried on Utes in 0200, stormy, full fog, far away from light sources, AI on 0.5.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Can you tell me the time, weather and location? I am using one of the latest beta patches and even in pitch black the enemy can hear footsteps (sometimes too well) and begins to look in my direction/in the direction of sound movement. He won't fire only when I approached him by crawling but even then he heard me (cca from 3-5m away) and scanned for threats.

I just tried on Utes in 0200, stormy, full fog, far away from light sources, AI on 0.5.

2200 hours

Forecast all the way to the left for both sliders

In the fields in Loy Manara.

I can be super far away and the AI will know my general direction, aka not looking for threats in all 360 degrees super frustrating. :(

[metalcraze 290]

As a side note you shouldn't be using Zeus AI at all with 1.60

It makes BIS AI worse.

Use ASR AI that takes 1.60 into account, which also makes AI see twice as worse at night (by default, can be adjusted or not used)

I can be super far away and the AI will know my general direction, aka not looking for threats in all 360 degrees super frustrating.

After you fired a shot? What's so surprising about it?

If you think it's an issue - create a CIT ticket with a repro so BIS will fix it. Otherwise it's just a demagogy.

Even if BIS reads this thread (which they likely don't) they won't be able to do anything based on words.

Edited January 20, 2012 by metalcraze

[Flash Thunder 10]

After you fired a shot? What's so surprising about it?

With a suppressed weapon and at night? lol no.

I've been running vanilla AI with my tests so its all BIS code.

[metalcraze 290]

So suppressed weapon hides bullet income trajectory?

I've been running vanilla AI with my tests so its all BIS code.

Make a CIT ticket with a repro mission then. Nobody is going to fix (what you think is) an issue otherwise.

[wipman 1]

Hi, we should make a CIT ticket saying that all the eastern SD weapons of the ArmA2 have muzzle flash and they enlight the area where you're when you shoot, while the western ones don't; and the AI don't need NVGs to see by night on the ArmA2, they can see you and engage you at +150m without have to have NVGs. They just "see the matrix and the matrix hate's you". Let's C ya

[maddogx 13]

and the AI don't need NVGs to see by night on the ArmA2, they can see you and engage you at +150m without have to have NVGs. They just "see the matrix and the matrix hate's you". Let's C ya

Patently untrue.

[metalcraze 290]

So can or can't AI see at night without NVGs?

One poster says that you can rub against AI weapon at night and it won't see you, the other dude says AI sees you past 200m (even though there's a video where AI doesn't see a soldier lying down motionless even from 5m at night and another video where AI doesn't retaliate against a soldier that shoots them up in a broad daylight with a sniper rifle)

All this whining and no actual repros to show us what exactly is wrong makes me believe it's:

"I didn't get killed - AI is too blind and can't see me dancing in front of him!"

"I got killed - AI can see me through grass, bushes, walls, mountains, star systems!"

and not a game's issue.

Edited January 20, 2012 by metalcraze

[Defunkt 431]

You're not Marek and Suma's mom are you metalcraze?

[maddogx 13]

You're not Marek and Suma's mom are you metalcraze?

Actually, that would explain a lot.

[maturin 12]

In OA with latest stable patch 1.60

puts a terrorist down in a field, has no night vision and able to walk right in front of his face and he does absolutely nothing...

I have a Scar with a suppressor, thermal scope, shot a bullet in the terrorists general area from about 20 meters away.

20 meters?

This is just stupid. You expect them not to hear a gunshot at 20 meters? Even suppressed, they would hear a supersoaker at that distance!

All you whiners need to take the time to learn how to the AI works, so you can actually make valid criticisms and post bugs like we "fanboys" do, instead of wailing and crying.

So right away, get the thought out of your thick heads that the AI cheats. It does not.

Before the AI is in combat mode, their vision is essentially based on probability and FOV. If you hide behind something, they won't see you, but they are also unlikely to notice you if you are standing in front of them in the dark. Everything here works as you would expect. Stay low and stay slow and they are less likely to notice you. At certain times of night, both you and the AI are blind as bats, and they will only react to you running right in front of their faces. They have ears too.

However, once they are aware of an enemy, their vision gets much better. At this point, if they have line of sight to you within several hundred meters, they will see you quite soon. If they do not see you, they will see your muzzle flash and smoke.

Unlike you, the AI can evaluate the exact position of a momentary muzzle flash and send rounds to that position with almost the same accuracy as in daytime. Even if he is aiming at a pitch black mountain, once you have revealed your position, he can shoot at that position with mathematical precision. If you're not an idiot, you will then crawl away and he will lose you, unless you are firing from close range, where he will see you even in the dark. This level of counterfire precision is one advantage the AI has over players, one of very few advantages. I assure you that you have far more.

So the only real problem we have discovered is that the AI is too good at using the visual cues of gunfire to gain full information about a shooter. (Their hearing is terrible, as simple tests can confirm.) It would be better if muzzle flashes etc gave AI the shooter's general area so they could suppress it. The game actually has already implemented this, but it is a feature that is not balanced correctly. Making the AI's knowledge of distant, semi-hidden, or nighttime shooters more vague and dispersed over an area would improve the game markedly.

Now look what I did there, I came up with a targeted, educated criticism and suggestion for a fix without whining and telling tall tales. The problem is, it's a very involved AI fix that would require a lot of man hours and testing with the possibility of breaking many things. So BIS hasn't addressed it yet, and have been tackling other issues. Hundreds and hundreds of them, actually, in more patches than any other game could ever hope to see.

[[evo] dan 79]

You have to remember that some weapons are only suppressed, not silenced. I know the ACE MP5 SD is silent after about 3m and the flash is barely visible. With Stock weapons like the mk16 cco SD it is only supressed, and so can be heard, just not as far with a normal round, and the flash still is visible (although greatly reduced)