Will this version get some polishing, or is it another sputtering Ferrari?

[maturin 12]

Yeah, the MP5 was designed to suppressed in real life, and is eerily quiet. I don't know whether it is quieter in-game than rifles with suppressors stuck on the end. If not, it is a config balance issue, but the AI still catches all the abuse.

With vanilla AI, you can go right now to the Utes runway and test how far away the AI can hear gunshots. IIRC, it's not over 500m for normal rifles(way too low, use ACE!), and suppressed weapons will be even less.

[[evo] dan 79]

well I know in ACE you can hit an enemy with an Mp5sd from about 10m and his mates wont see you. Little further with stock AI and mp5sd. But you only get away with it if they are looking in a different to direction from where you are shooting.

[Libertine 1]

So suppressed weapon hides bullet income trajectory?

If they're simulating using subsonic ammo, then OF COURSE IT DOES! :mad: There is no sonic-boom when the bullet stays under 1100 feet per second. Maybe leave the thinking to people that know a little something about this stuff and stop trying to push your juvenile opinions.

Where i live, if you can travel 15 miles and spend $74 bucks, you can shoot a silenced, real MP5sd. They're pretty quiet and easy to aim. Far easier to make a head shot with at close range. Especially since both eyes can be open when you shoot.

[Nicholas 5]

1100 feet per second

More like 1126 ft/s. :p :D

[maturin 12]

The AI doesn't hear sonic snaps from bullets. It would overwhelm the netcode to keep track of round proximity for every bullet and soldier on the battlefield. Would be nice to have a performance-scalable version for SP, though.

And I just tested. AI hears nothing of a suppressed M4 (MUCH louder than an MP5 SD) at 100m. So why are arguing about some fool's report that the unfair AI heard him from "super far away."

[Libertine 1]

In the real world, "silencing" and "suppression" are the same thing. Based on my reading, in the military, "silencing" is considered incorrect terminology brought about by movies. Although its pretty wide-spread at this point. Like "Bondo"...

http://www.silencerresearch.com/

When suppressors are with subsonic ammo its purpose it to sound unlike a gun shot and be somewhat quieter, especially pistols. When suppressors are used with supersonic ammo to retain the power of the rounds, but help mask the direction the round came from.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

More like 1126 ft/s. :p :D

Yes, and still deadly btw, especially when you consider that pistol rounds travel near that speed and under. To compensate, you can use heavy bullets that impart more force to the target, like the .45, which is why my AR-15 (semi M4) was converted to 9mm(which i'll never use because im a peace-nick gun owner - image that).

You expect them not to hear a gunshot at 20 meters? Even suppressed, they would hear a supersoaker at that distance!

If Bis wanted to simulate a real like take on suppressors, then the player should compelled to do everything in his power to make a single shot kill via headshot. If you watch on youtube, you'll notice that an MP5sd in full auto sounds very "gun'ish" and should draw attention. IMO, a single shot should have a small chance to draw the attention of nearby guards. Multiple shots or automatic fire should have a much higher chance of drawing attention of nearby guards and have a slight chance of getting the attention of medium ranged guards, who are between 100 and 200 meters away (not soldiers in running vehicles :rolleyes:). This doesn't mean these soldier should go into combat mode, they should have an "investigation mode" where they're just going to check the noise out, NOT home in on the player or have terminator vision. Maybe two different levels of "investigation mode" where some soldier are more cautious than others and spend more time looking around for whatever caused the noise. By all means, make it challenging (id be disapointed if it wasn't) and complicated and even a bit unpredictable for the player if you want via a random chance of "a lucky spotting".

A.I. shot with a round shouldn't get right on their radio, they should dive for cover and pull out their weapons first, and eventually, when they come out of shock, yell for help or get on the radio, with the appropriate animations.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Libertine

[maturin 12]

So you're saying they should act like stupid bots in an ego shooter for Mission Impossible wannabes rather than acting like players playing the game? When I hear someone fire a BULLET at me, I pull out my weapon, run for cover while calling out the contact in teamspeak. And if I am hit, I shout out even sooner. Then I go into 'investigation mode' and home in on the enemy with my terminator vision.

And since most ArmA squads (only groups have an open, constant radio link) are usually within meters of each other, they will hear a comrade take hits.

Since you you don't understand how the AI works, it is very unclear what you want them to do that they do not already do. Your experience in one mission, which may have anti-infiltration AI networks set up that are invisible to you, is not particularly helpful. AI groups are designed to stick together, but it sounds like the mission maker may have set up patrolling guards to share information from across town.

And really, soldiers in default state Aware are fighting a war. You don't ignore gunshots just because they are from 300m away, which is well within effective range for every infantry weapon. If you want AI sangfroid, you set their combat state to Safe or, god help you, Careless.

[4 IN 1 0]

First you are saying AIs are too good on sighting, now you are saying AIs are blind/deaf?

[rye1 21]

First you are saying AIs are too good on sighting, now you are saying AIs are blind/deaf?

They're not perfect....

[Libertine 1]

So you're saying they should act like stupid bots in an ego shooter for Mission Impossible wannabes rather than acting like players playing the game?

Of course not, im asking for realistic A.I. behavior, where do you not see that? I didn't write an essay on every detail because i figured the devs could fill in the blanks. I want difficult play, where every move must be perfect. Im asking for realistic behavior. I didn't think i had to write "war and peace" for [some] people to understand what im getting at.

When I hear someone fire a BULLET at me, I pull out my weapon, run for cover while calling out the contact in teamspeak. And if I am hit, I shout out even sooner.

You DON'T pull out your weapon, you react first by running for cover because you have no idea when the next shot is coming or how many enemies there are. For all you know, the next shot is RIGHT NOW! You get cover, or run. Thats IF THEY MISS.

If its an MP5 [and were dealing with a regular soldier who went into the Army for the college tuition and who's main hobby is stamp collecting and who secondary hobby is collecting photographs of 19th century telegraph polls] and you miss -then he might not have the faintest fucking clue what an Mp5 IS, let alone SOUNDS like...:rolleyes:

IF THEY HIT, there could be another set of rules, but you can't shout if its a torso shot ...or a head shot. You can grunt, or have a chance to be able to shout, both of which should be detectable within various ranges. Save the teamspeak for special forces who are btw, often dumb as a donut.

Falling down should make a noise that draws the curiosity of nearby guards, that would be great too of course. Again, didn't know i had to write up a how-to guide on trigonometry to fill in the blanks, but ok.

And since most ArmA squads (only groups have an open, constant radio link) are usually within meters of each other, they will hear a comrade take hits.

How do you know ANY body has an "open, constant" radio link. Do you think this is reality btw? You don't know, your just another guy pushing his opinion on me in a rude way.

If the bullet hit something hard, even a wall on the otherside on the soldier, then yeah, all noises should have a chance to alert soldier into a "wtf is that" state, but not into "i heard a noise, now its time to seek out the enemy soldier who made the noise" mode...

And really, soldiers in default state Aware are fighting a war. You don't ignore gunshots just because they are from 300m away, which is well within effective range for every infantry weapon.

This is the trick of a suppressed weapon, it doesn't sound like a gunshot...and im not sure who's asking for gunshots not to be detectable from 300m because i haven't seen it in this thread. A suppressed "click" should not be considered a gunshot, but should have a chance to draw attention, not Arnold S's attention, just curiosity or more fervent, concerned curiosity. If you happen to to shoot someone and others notice the sound, but you hide the body well, then they shouldn't see it in that case, but should have a chance to continue investigating, or they say "F it" and go back to thinking about women. All of this depends on more realistic A.I. vision.

If you want AI sangfroid, you set their combat state to Safe or, god help you, Careless.

Is there a "virtual reality" setting?

Anything else i can help you with cupcake? :icon_ohmygod:

Edited January 21, 2012 by Libertine

[igneous01 19]

You DON'T pull out your weapon, you react first by running for cover because you have no idea when the next shot is coming or how many enemies there are. For all you know, the next shot is RIGHT NOW! You get cover, or run. Thats IF THEY MISS.

you can ready your weapon and take cover at the same time in this game.

If its an MP5 [and were dealing with a regular soldier who went into the Army for the college tuition and who's main hobby is stamp collecting and who secondary hobby is collecting photographs of 19th century telegraph polls] and you miss -then he might not have the faintest fucking clue what an Mp5 IS, let alone SOUNDS like...:rolleyes:

Do you know of any game that even has personalities for ai that defines their actions (besides overdone rpg's where most of the unique qualities are their speaking behaviour)? I dont expect a milsim to start suggesting which and what bot went to college and which didnt. thats taking it too far.

IF THEY HIT, there could be another set of rules, but you can't shout if its a torso shot ...or a head shot. You can grunt, or have a chance to be able to shout, both of which should be detectable within various ranges. Save the teamspeak for special forces who are btw, often dumb as a donut.

theres no simulation for that, the best compromise is the fact that the ai yells under fire to his team mates, otherwise there would be no way for ai to alert team mates at all in this game. Again this is too specific of a task to ask for. If this were covert simulations, then yea, but its too broad. This kind of request is not gonna happen. And yes, fire teams do stay together, and have greater situational awareness then a movie where 4 guys are completely clueless a buddy died.

How do you know ANY body has an "open, constant" radio link. Do you think this is reality btw? You don't know, your just another guy pushing his opinion on me in a rude way.

All soldiers in this game are modelled to have radios, as pretty any modern army has radios, except the guerilla factions. Even then the radio is only cosmetics, not a complex communication system between ai, theres grouplink 4 for that.

If the bullet hit something hard, even a wall on the otherside on the soldier, then yeah, all noises should have a chance to alert soldier into a "wtf is that" state, but not into "i heard a noise, now its time to seek out the enemy soldier who made the noise" mode...

They dont "seek out" the enemy that made the noise, once a team goes into danger mode it takes a couple of seconds for them to regroup and focus on a particular task that was given to them by the team leader. Sometimes the ai leader makes good decisions, other times bad ones. Teams in danger take up 360 arc, so if you are seen, they will react.

[maturin 12]

You DON'T pull out your weapon, you react first by running for cover because you have no idea when the next shot is coming or how many enemies there are.

Are we talking about the same game. I don't see people walking around with their guns holstered in ArmA. You've descended into nitpicking.

If its an MP5 [and were dealing with a regular soldier who went into the Army for the college tuition and who's main hobby is stamp collecting and who secondary hobby is collecting photographs of 19th century telegraph polls] and you miss -then he might not have the faintest fucking clue what an Mp5 IS, let alone SOUNDS like...:rolleyes:

What the bloody hell are you talking about? You have to quote, because I can't follow bizarre non sequiturs like this. Although you needn't bother, because I'm sure you're responding to some incidental detail of my post while missing the larger point.

IF THEY HIT, there could be another set of rules, but you can't shout if its a torso shot ...or a head shot. You can grunt, or have a chance to be able to shout, both of which should be detectable within various ranges. Save the teamspeak for special forces who are btw, often dumb as a donut.

You need to go design your own game. When people take fatal injuries, they tend to scream. And they do in ArmA. Use your ears, you can hear it your own shitty video. I don't believe I have to point this out.

I don't know for sure that the AI hears screams, either outside or inside of a group. I do know they react to seeing people getting shot (but stealth champions like you are always certain that no one else has line of sight to their victim, I'm sure), and after a certain amount of time they will check in with the victim and realize that he is not responding. You can see this mechanic at work for yourself by separating from a group of AI and leaving them to die.

How do you know ANY body has an "open, constant" radio link. Do you think this is reality btw? You don't know, your just another guy pushing his opinion on me in a rude way.

By playing the game. You press the spacebar, you give orders. The AI talks back. They don't have to fumble with their radio buttons to communicate, they just talk, like players on teamspeak. That's what I would describe as a virtual version of an open radio link, as opposed to your idea that the AI should have to wait to stop pissing their pants before they can communicate with others.

If the bullet hit something hard, even a wall on the otherside on the soldier, then yeah, all noises should have a chance to alert soldier into a "wtf is that" state, but not into "i heard a noise, now its time to seek out the enemy soldier who made the noise" mode...

Once again, they're in a war. When you hear pieces of metal striking concrete near speed of sound, you don't go sauntering around without a care in the world, looking for the mischievous kids playing with a slingshot on a battlefield. If this was Splinter Cell, and the only enemies were rent-a-cop guards in a peaceful city, you would be right. But this is a military simulator, where the enemies are soldiers expecting to be shot at.

This is the trick of a suppressed weapon, it doesn't sound like a gunshot.

Do I need to quote your post where you say that even a suppressed MP5 sounds clearly like a gun? But since you can't decide whether the AI are too good at detection or not good enough, I shouldn't be surprised.

This has become a pointless exercise. We clearly demonstrated how nothing in your video displayed a significant problem with the AI, and corrected you in your allegations that the AI cheats. You never offered any substantive rebuttal, just a bunch of nitpicks that would be better served with an (actually helpful) devheaven ticket or suggestions thread in the proper forum. But I know, making car allegories is fun.

[Flogger23m 2]

IMHO，the animation revamp is the top priority, AI is not that bad as seeing from the ACE or other descent MOD.

What exactly does this revamp include? I hope it includes weapon animations and removes the "switching to another weapon, but it switches you to your pistol, then switches back to the rifle, and then to your desired weapon" issue.

That being said smarter AI should also be a priority. ACE's AI helped, though they still fail to do simple things frequently.

[Flash Thunder 10]

AI should prefer crouching stance over standing and slower movement at night over faster movements.

Dunno if its animation but it would be nice if we could hold the binoculars out in front of us and not right in our eye sockets and be able to run with them in our hands similar to that other game.

[Libertine 1]

you can ready your weapon and take cover at the same time in this game.

Right, im asking for things NOT in the game.

Do you know of any game that even has personalities for ai that defines their actions (besides overdone rpg's where most of the unique qualities are their speaking behaviour)? I dont expect a milsim to start suggesting which and what bot went to college and which didnt. thats taking it too far.

No, asking for relatively simple simple code here. You can vary behavior easily. Speaking specifically about hearing a single Mp5 shot:

-you can give A.I. a varied chance to hear it or not between a range of distances, with less chance the further away of course.

-At any range, there could be a specific chance just to look in the direction of the noise instead of starting to wander in that direction, smaller chance the higher the difficulty level or A.I. state.

-You could give unaware A.I. that heard the noise only a chance to know the exact direction the shot came from, if they fail, then they investigate in a direction 1 to 15 degree off from the noise, but still look around.

-You could vary the distance traveled to the player.

-You could vary the time spent stopped at the final search point

-You could add chance to add another search path in a random direction.

-If the A.I. are in a group, but the Mp5 shot occurred far away, you could randomly assign only a given number of A.I. to respond and break away and investigate the noise. And you could do this at any distance, and assign a +1 and +2 and +3 modifier, and so on the closer to the player they were.

-You could give a chance to solo soldiers to just stay in their search spot and have a smoke. (I'd be happy to create high quality idle animations for a small wage...)

Easy stuff for a programmer.

Keep in mind its very easy to generate a random number, here it is in c++: rand() % 7 + 1; Wow, that was hard! Nor do you have to commute this all at once. All the other things here are easy too as all the values involved are known values. You want to know how fast your computer processes stuff? Download a program called process monitor and run it, there you go...

All soldiers in this game are modelled to have radios, as pretty any modern army has radios, except the guerilla factions. Even then the radio is only cosmetics, not a complex communication system between ai, theres grouplink 4 for that.

All Armies in real life have radios, but not each soldier carries one unless something recently has changed. It might be more likely for the future, i'll give you that, but even that is a stretch according to my knowledge of the military.

[igneous01 19]

as far as Im concerned there is already a percentage chance of the ai detecting fire/muzzle blast/sound/enemy movement under certain daytime and weather conditions. So what do you want exactly? more percentage chances?

[Libertine 1]

Are we talking about the same game. I don't see people walking around with their guns holstered in ArmA. You've descended into nitpicking.

No, we are now having an unpleasant conversation (that i wish we could have in person) about a specific aspect of the A.I.

What the bloody hell are you talking about? You have to quote, because I can't follow bizarre non sequiturs like this. Although you needn't bother, because I'm sure you're responding to some incidental detail of my post while missing the larger point.

Your larger immature point that your opinion and desired gameplay is greater than mine? THAT POINT?

You need to go design your own game. When people take fatal injuries, they tend to scream. And they do in ArmA. Use your ears, you can hear it your own shitty video. I don't believe I have to point this out.

In the video i hear a soft groan, that is not a scream. Its possible BIS meant it to be a scream, but neither its volume or its tone reflect a real scream. Certainly not one that would cause a running BMP to rush over instantly.

Heres some screams for you Sherlock Holmes:

By playing the game. You press the spacebar, you give orders. The AI talks back. They don't have to fumble with their radio buttons to communicate, they just talk, like players on teamspeak. That's what I would describe as a virtual version of an open radio link

Thanks for that slice of common sense Mr. Holmes. Should they all have an open radio link is the question, i obviously don't think so, its not realistic for general troops to have. I think its ok if they do in general, but lets have some realistic use, you have to pull it out and use it, not be an auto-alarm bell for the entire south side of an Island.

Once again, they're in a war. When you hear pieces of metal striking concrete near speed of sound, you don't go sauntering around without a care in the world, looking for the mischievous kids playing with a slingshot on a battlefield. If this was Splinter Cell, and the only enemies were rent-a-cop guards in a peaceful city, you would be right. But this is a military simulator, where the enemies are soldiers expecting to be shot at.

War is often boring for troops and they say it all the time in documentaries, you should know this if you watch them, or even youtube videos. If you want to simulate highly aware troops, thats fine, you should be allowed to do that.....and...that would be cool to try and overcome. State of awareness aside, an MP5 with subsonic ammo should not automatically be perceived as a gunshot. Especially not a single shot, which is all i think I would dare to do in real life. If the shooter is super close to other soldiers, then i agree soldier should go into danger mode, even call out to other soldiers if the roll of the dice gave them knowledge. Short of that, it should prompt various levels of investigation.

I also completely disagree with the idea that bullets hitting objects should be interpreted as a landing bullet. Having used guns outside often, they really don't make much impact noise in soft surfaces or hard, thick surfaces like concrete that won't produce vibrations, more of a "tick" sound. Sheet metal on the other hand... is loud. BIS can ever easily add attributes to sound files, that if played trigger sound detection code.

Do I need to quote your post where you say that even a suppressed MP5 sounds clearly like a gun? But since you can't decide whether the AI are too good at detection or not good enough, I shouldn't be surprised.

Please do Mr. Holmes. I said the whole point of a suppressor is to NOT sound like a gun. NOT....

We clearly demonstrated how nothing in your video displayed a significant problem with the AI, and corrected you in your allegations that the AI cheats.

I've never used the word cheat, for one. My argument and concern is that its too simple. Obviously. But by all means, lets keep going over and over this S...

---------- Post added at 01:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------

as far as Im concerned there is already a percentage chance of the ai detecting fire/muzzle blast/sound/enemy movement under certain daytime and weather conditions. So what do you want exactly? more percentage chances?

I think i basically covered what im asking for in pages 1 - 11. :D

[-Coulum- 35]

@Libertine

Many of the the problems you mention are not actually problems in the most recent version of the game. But at the same time some of your ideas are valid. If you want to be taken seriously however, I suggest you present your ideas in a more organized and respectful way and listen to what others have to say instead of immediately writing them off as wrong.

The idea of more randomness concerning the ai's spotting ability and reactions is a good one in my opinion and I really don't think it is implemented right now. This would represent the fact that different soldiers simply have different personalities and abilities. It would also make the ai not quite so predictable and in turn not as robotic(and more human like).

Right now it seems that if the ai is facing me there is a certain distance that he can never see me from if I am in a particular stance. Ie. if I am 350m + away from an ai he will never see me whether i am prone crouched or running around in circles. This lets me exploit the ai and not take cover, or ***not move in a stealthy manner at certain distances, which is unrealistic.

Adding a bit of randomess to spotting would fix this problem however. If, even at 350m + even a grunt had a chance of seeing me I would be forced to remain stealthy even at far ranges. Of course the randomness would still be in line with the skill equipment condotions etc. of the ai and target.

Having random reactions would also go a long way towards making the game better. Right now ai reactions are predictable, and that makes them appear robotic and inhuman. Adding more varied reactions would help fix this. Ie. if a bullet lands near the ai and they are in aware they will react in different ways every time. Sometimes they may Run for cover. Others they will stand where they are looking for a shooter, or go searching for the source of the sound or Some may not even hear the sound or write it off as animal or something. Or maybe they would simply decide they had enough already and flee. Of course the better skilled units would have a higher likelihood of choosing the most efficient course of action. This addition to the ai would make the ai seem more human and add replayability to missions. It would also make it so differently skilled units would fight in different ways.***

Of course for these kind of systems to work the core needs to be improved first. Ai need to know how to actually take and use cover and better animations need to be made for the different reactions. Otherwise we will have people saying the ai have super vision, or that they are totally blind and when shot at simply run around in circles.

Edited January 22, 2012 by -Coulum-

[Libertine 1]

@Libertine

Many of the the problems you mention are not actually problems in the most recent version of the game. But at the same time some of your ideas are valid. If you want to be taken seriously however, I suggest you present your ideas in a more organized and respectful way and listen to what others have to say instead of immediately writing them off as wrong.

I think if you look back, metalcrazy and muntinman fired the shots in the rude department, I fired back, but in the sarcastic department. I don't believe i've gone into the rude dept.

The idea of more randomness concerning the ai's spotting ability and reactions is a good one in my opinion and I really don't think it is implemented right now. This would represent the fact that different soldiers simply have different personalities and abilities. It would also make the ai not quite so predictable and in turn not as robotic(and more human like).

Right now it seems that if the ai is facing me there is a certain distance that he can never see me from if I am in a particular stance. Ie. if I am 350m + away from an ai he will never see me whether i am prone crouched or running around in circles. This lets me exploit the ai and not take cover, or ***not move in a stealthy manner at certain distances, which is unrealistic.

Adding a bit of randomess to spotting would fix this problem however. If, even at 350m + even a grunt had a chance of seeing me I would be forced to remain stealthy even at far ranges. Of course the randomness would still be in line with the skill equipment condotions etc. of the ai and target.

Having random reactions would also go a long way towards making the game better. Right now ai reactions are predictable, and that makes them appear robotic and inhuman. Adding more varied reactions would help fix this. Ie. if a bullet lands near the ai and they are in aware they will react in different ways every time. Sometimes they may Run for cover. Others they will stand where they are looking for a shooter, or go searching for the source of the sound or Some may not even hear the sound or write it off as animal or something. Or maybe they would simply decide they had enough already and flee. Of course the better skilled units would have a higher likelihood of choosing the most efficient course of action. This addition to the ai would make the ai seem more human and add replayability to missions. It would also make it so differently skilled units would fight in different ways.***

Yeah, i agree. Its one of the reasons i didn't jump into Arma 1 or 2, as i knew from experience with OFP and many, many other games that robotic, lifeless feeling from A.I.

I'd be more than happy to animate some high quality idle animations for Bis for a small wage...

[Tonci87 163]

Seriously guys stop this.

I guess we all can agree that the Arma AI has some flaws when it comes to stealth tactics.

Yes BIS should try to improve that. PERIOD

[maturin 12]

Your larger immature point that your opinion and desired gameplay is greater than mine? THAT POINT?

Don't recall that. My knowledge of the gameplay is greater than yours, so my better command of the facts makes my opinions more useful. Although I wouldn't feel too bad dismissing an "all for the stealth kill" focus for AI.

In the video i hear a soft groan, that is not a scream. Its possible BIS meant it to be a scream, but neither its volume or its tone reflect a real scream. Certainly not one that would cause a running BMP to rush over instantly.

Oh, so it could only have been the scream that made the BMP go active? I gave you a detailed explanation of information the AI, so start thinking analytically about it and stop a priori condemnation of the game.

Thanks for that slice of common sense Mr. Holmes. Should they all have an open radio link is the question, i obviously don't think so, its not realistic for general troops to have.

They have it only because the player has it. You would go insane if you had to pull out and use a radio EVERY TIME you wanted to talk to your men.

not be an auto-alarm bell for the entire south side of an Island.

There's no alarm bell. The link only exists inside groups, and a fair mission maker will make groups rationally sized and placed to avoid a hivemind situation. Group leaders sharing information about enemies do it somewhat randomly and infrequently: exactly the sort of behavior you want.

War is often boring for troops and they say it all the time in documentaries, you should know this if you watch them, or even youtube videos. If you want to simulate highly aware troops, thats fine, you should be allowed to do that.....and...that would be cool to try and overcome.

Like I said, that's the default state of the AI. Combat state Aware. Go experiment with other combat states in the editor.

State of awareness aside, an MP5 with subsonic ammo should not automatically be perceived as a gunshot. Especially not a single shot, which is all i think I would dare to do in real life. If the shooter is super close to other soldiers, then i agree soldier should go into danger mode, even call out to other soldiers if the roll of the dice gave them knowledge. Short of that, it should prompt various levels of investigation.

You have to be super close to other soldiers for them even to hear an MP5 SD. I don't disagree in a chance for the AI to ignore a single suppressed shot, but this is really just a little config tweak of little overall importance to the game. Every other weapon is going to be too loud, and 99.5% of situations will make this sort of thing inappropriate. It's the price you pay for having jets and enormous maps. But mod, mod away.

I also completely disagree with the idea that bullets hitting objects should be interpreted as a landing bullet. Having used guns outside often, they really don't make much impact noise in soft surfaces or hard, thick surfaces like concrete that won't produce vibrations, more of a "tick" sound. Sheet metal on the other hand... is loud. BIS can ever easily add attributes to sound files, that if played trigger sound detection code.

That's valid, but we're not dealing exclusively with sound. What if they see the impact? Realize that LoS checks are very expensive in this engine, and making every AI on the map visually check hundreds of bullet impacts would be prohibitively expensive in terms of system resources. Better to just make them aware of impacts in a radius. And really, in my experience, units sometimes ignore impacts anyways. There is actually randomness in most of the AI's behavior, which is why I have stated that your experience in that one mission does not give you useful knowledge with which to make complaints.

Please do Mr. Holmes. I said the whole point of a suppressor is to NOT sound like a gun. NOT....

If you watch on youtube, you'll notice that an MP5sd in full auto sounds very "gun'ish" and should draw attention.

I've never used the word cheat, for one. My argument and concern is that its too simple. Obviously. But by all means, lets keep going over and over this S...

You have repeatedly suggested that the AI can home in on our location. You've never been too specific about how, but your wording is just like the legion of other people who have noobishly insisted that the AI is psychic or a cheater.

I think i basically covered what im asking for in pages 1 - 11. :D

No BIS dev or modder is ever going to read a single word of it.

https://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/issues

[Libertine 1]

Don't recall that. My knowledge of the gameplay is greater than yours, so my better command of the facts makes my opinions more useful. Although I wouldn't feel too bad dismissing an "all for the stealth kill" focus for AI.

Your reaction to my video "all completely realistic and normal" just about completely invalidated any, and i mean just about any, respect for your opinions.

Oh, so it could only have been the scream that made the BMP go active? I gave you a detailed explanation of information the AI.

Well, it wasn't that he was seen, i tested that many times. He might have been seen by the current code, but he shouldn't have been seen in real life, and thats the point. I don't want group A.I. to be psychically binded to one another in such a way that they know unrealistically when, and where they someone was shot. That clear enough?

They have it only because the player has it. You would go insane if you had to pull out and use a radio EVERY TIME you wanted to talk to your men.

The player is also not allowed to plan things out with his A.I. teammate, or talk to them or hand gesture, or nod up and down. Or tell them not to F'ing get up and start running around lol, when sneaking around. But even putting in a shout, doesn't get me the realism im looking for. If your not lookign for that type of behavior, good for you, that explains your post count, you like the game, it supports your interests, good, good job.:D

If they made a poll in the New York Times titled, "What do you think of Armed Assault", do you think that poll would do better there, or if placed in this forum? You like the game, i get it, it suits you...

There's no alarm bell. The link only exists inside groups, and a fair mission maker will make groups rationally sized and placed to avoid a hivemind situation. Group leaders sharing information about enemies do it somewhat randomly and infrequently: exactly the sort of behavior you want.

Whatever you want to call it, get rid of the link.

You have to be super close to other soldiers for them even to hear an MP5 SD. I don't disagree in a chance for the AI to ignore a single suppressed shot, but this is really just a little config tweak of little overall importance to the game. Every other weapon is going to be too loud, and 99.5% of situations will make this sort of thing inappropriate. It's the price you pay for having jets and enormous maps. But mod, mod away.

No interest in modding, but I can join a BF2142 server and have a more realistic stealth experience stealing enemy helicopters or whatever...speaking specifically about the

That's valid, but we're not dealing exclusively with sound. What if they see the impact? Realize that LoS checks are very expensive in this engine, and making every AI on the map visually check hundreds of bullet impacts would be prohibitively expensive in terms of system resources. Better to just make them aware of impacts in a radius. And really, in my experience, units sometimes ignore impacts anyways. There is actually randomness in most of the AI's behavior, which is why I have stated that your experience in that one mission does not give you useful knowledge with which to make complaints.

I would not even bother checking if they see a bullet land. Only sound checks, bullets whizzing by and/or hitting something very close to them is enough.

If you watch on youtube, you'll notice that an MP5sd in full auto sounds very "gun'ish" and should draw attention.

It does, but obviously, then make any auto fire draw different -realistic amount of attention.

You have repeatedly suggested that the AI can home in on our location. You've never been too specific about how, but your wording is just like the legion of other people who have noobishly insisted that the AI is psychic or a cheater.

The result is too simple and others, plain and simple.

[igneous01 19]

Whatever you want to call it, get rid of the link.

not going to happen, the link is there for a reason: AI work as a team and communicate with each other on the battlefield. If the link was not there, you would not have a battle in arma, period.

[maddogx 13]

Actually, the fact that AI groups seem to detect the death of a member almost instantly has always been a pet peeve of mine. Basically, one group member can be miles away from the rest and everything will be fine, but the moment he dies, the group leader will feel some kind of disturbance in the force and almost instantly ask the dead guy to "report status". When he doesn't answer within 5 seconds, the leader will then declare him dead.

Surely there must be a better way.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Well so why you are here if you can plain and simple

but I can join a BF2142 server and have a more realistic stealth experience stealing enemy helicopters or whatever...

about AI pathfinding:

http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/artificial-intelligence/a-pathfinding-for-beginners-r2003