A solution to improving AI group fighting ability

[igneous01 19]

Did some more tests and enableAttack false actually breaks AI more than it helps it.

Why?

Here's an example.

I put myself into AI controlled squad with enableAttack false

So what do they do upon contact? Nothing. They stop and get wiped out really quickly if defending enemy without enableAttack false sees them.

Why? Because the enemy commander can give out orders who to attack and where.

Marine commander however can't and thus soldiers will attack only those whom they personally see - making a whole squad have as much teamwork as present on a random public server.

thats the thing with it - soldiers wont attack, the only thing it helps with is units will move into cover and stay in cover while in combat mode - but other than that they will not move (even if you stay behind a wall and they know you are there) which is obviously a problem in and of its own. Which is why we need attack orders - but only half should get the orders and these orders should be directed at groups of 2 or more men.

[wolffy.au 9]

Metalcraze - did you log a CIT about this yet? Do you have a reference?

I think you need some repro missions to show vanilla actions vs attempted fix actions. As was mentioned by Katipo, latest patches may have varied vanilla methods which needs to be verified.

[katipo66 94]

Ok i tested again from the editor, no other behavior mods, i put 4 US infantry groups in Novy Sobor with guard waypoints and i put 4 Russian groups up in the forest east of the town up on the hill, i gave one russian group a S&D way point into NS to kick it off.

Once engagement started the other 3 russian groups moved to the inside edge of the forest and laid down serious fire into NS which was returned accordingly... this carried on for over 5mins with no suicide runs?, or none that i could see.

Fuk yea!

[metalcraze 290]

thats the thing with it - soldiers wont attack, the only thing it helps with is units will move into cover and stay in cover while in combat mode - but other than that they will not move (even if you stay behind a wall and they know you are there) which is obviously a problem in and of its own. Which is why we need attack orders - but only half should get the orders and these orders should be directed at groups of 2 or more men.

Exactly. As I've said earlier the solution in between this and vanilla will be optimal.

Still won't happen until next year... If ever.

[maturin 12]

Did some more tests and enableAttack false actually breaks AI more than it helps it.

Why?

Here's an example.

I put myself into AI controlled squad with enableAttack false

So what do they do upon contact? Nothing. They stop and get wiped out really quickly if defending enemy without enableAttack false sees them.

Squads with attack disabled are only effective if they have a waypoint to act upon. Because then the leader will hop from cover to cover and his men will follow him intelligently.

Edit: Or if they have a good position in cover.

Edited December 24, 2011 by maturin

[tpw 2315]

Squads with attack disabled are only effective if they have a waypoint to act upon. Because then the leader will hop from cover to cover and his men will follow him intelligently.

Using bis_fnc_taskPatrol and enableattack false works really really well for me, I guess for the reason maturin stated..

[metalcraze 290]

@maturin: they had a SAD waypoint.

Upon noticing the enemy they just stopped not knowing what to do (there were a lot of obstacles so they couldn't just see the enemy all the time).

While enemy soldiers were simply flanking them and picking them off one by one since the whole team always knew who to shoot and where thanks to an active leader.

[maturin 12]

@maturin: they had a SAD waypoint.

Upon noticing the enemy they just stopped not knowing what to do (there were a lot of obstacles so they couldn't just see the enemy all the time).

While enemy soldiers were simply flanking them and picking them off one by one since the whole team always knew who to shoot and where thanks to an active leader.

That's probably because they stopped searching as soon as contact was made. Ordinarily the team leader would give engage commands at that point.

If they had an active move waypoint on top of the enemy, they would have stayed proactive.

And I guess you do sacrifice flanking.

[igneous01 19]

flanking is sacrificed, I think especially now with the new patch, its most effective for static positions or defenses in buildings or fortified areas, because they will not leave a building or fortified position to engage.

Thats where I see its use right now, they operate alot better in buildings (especially with the simple building patrol script) with enableAttack disabled, which allows them to engage from buildings, which is a lot better than them running out of buildings to fight you head on.

[ajax420 0]

Solution. Disable AI and play against real people. You won't be disappointed.

[kremator 1065]

Yes we will. Some humans are useless :)

[ajax420 0]

Some!

[.kju 3245]

For reference:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_AI_Combat_Modes

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Waypoint_types

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/enableAttack

[maturin 12]

Solution. Disable AI and play against real people. You won't be disappointed.

I'll go call my 200 friends to sit around an airbase for two hours walking in circles.

:j:

[igneous01 19]

Solution. Disable AI and play against real people. You won't be disappointed.

actually theres a 50% chance you will be.

[pcc 14]

actually theres a 50% chance you will be.

Team-killers and other troublemakers makes that 99%.

[ajax420 0]

@maturin

You have 200 friends you play arma with and all you do is shoot AI togerther? What a fucking boob! 200 players and you don't split teams and fight each other. Do you all just play AI? Seriously????????

[maturin 12]

@maturin

You have 200 friends you play arma with and all you do is shoot AI togerther? What a fucking boob! 200 players and you don't split teams and fight each other. Do you all just play AI? Seriously????????

I know this is the internet, but that was pretty clear sarcasm.

Setting up a 200 unit battle in SP or co-op takes five minutes. Unless you have the best-organized, popular and financially successful squad out there, doing that with PvP takes five months. And even then, a wide variety of scenarios and battle types are off the table because of issues with balance and boredom.

[kremator 1065]

Woah .. you have 200 friends? Cans Iz bee your Fr1endz ?

[maninblue 2]

This is probably a stupid question, sorry, but i cant seem to find the answer from google or the bis wiki.

In the editor, i have written the following in the group leaders init "(group this) enableAttack false"

But when i spawn as a squadmember he still gives attack orders to the different members of the group, can anyone tell me what am i doing wrong?

Edited January 2, 2012 by Maninblue

[maturin 12]

Are you sure he's giving Engage orders? He may just be calling targets. Best way to test is to make him playable and switch after a few minutes.

[maninblue 2]

Are you sure he's giving Engage orders? He may just be calling targets. Best way to test is to make him playable and switch after a few minutes.

Yeah hes calling targets for individual soldiers, but only giving out engagement orders to the whole group, i guess it works then. Thanks for the reply.

[DaveP 66]

Woah .. you have 200 friends? Cans Iz bee your Fr1endz ?

That's how :rolleyes:

[dmarkwick 261]

100% correct. While I was building my command menu replacement, I replaced all the engage/attack commands with dotarget/commandtarget, and I saw a different kind of AI teammate. They stay with you and use cover. Often I found myself simply directing their fire with binoculars instead of engaging myself.

Please please please, release :)

I've asked before, is there any chance? Even on a beta basis?

[maninblue 2]

Please please please, release :)

I've asked before, is there any chance? Even on a beta basis?

Id love to get my hands on this aswell, sounds like fun in single player.