First "Community Patch"

[blave 1]

Being completely new to the ARMA ecosystem, I spent well over an hour yesterday morning trying to sort this out. It seems there are two ways to change things like the flight model -- (1) do the pbo unpack/repack thing (and everyone seems to have their own favorite tool for this), or (2) drop an HSim directory tree into the TOH root directory, which will override the default FM. Someone posted an HSim zip file (I forget who as I was looking at about eight threads at one point) and so I unzipped that and edited the xml file to make sure that Nightstalker's parameters were in there.

The HSim directory hierarchy is:

<TOH root>\HSim\Air_US_H\Helicopters_Light\Light-GenHeli600-DesktopSim.xml

(the xml file is the only thing in the HSim tree btw)

I keep a copy of the HSim tree elsewhere on my system so that I can quickly enable and disable the modded FM.

Dave B.

So i installed it to C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\Take On Helicopters\@testfm\addons

do i need to run the game with certain parameters now?

this is nightstalkers fm file right?

[Tacklebait 10]

I ended up running the game with a shortcut.

Path "C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\Take On Helicopters\takeonh.exe" -mod=@testfm

worked like a dream.

I am enjoying the FM thoroughly!!! I'm not a pilot or anything, but everything seems more manageable and predictable. My approaches are much more accurate and hovering seems much easier. The softer ground effect is great!

The one thing I have noticed though, there doesn't appear to be a throttle level that keeps me from gaining or losing altitude. If I'm hovering (outside of ground effect), I'm either going up or down slightly. If I have the HUD of the gauges on, the green bar on the throttle gauge will not go to half way (midpoint) of the green half circle. Its either slightly above the half way, or slightly below. Sometimes it will flicker back and forth between above and below the midway point.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Tacklebait
started the message on iphone... moved to a computer

[blave 1]

I am mystified about this. I messed with all aspects of cyclic and pedal sensitivity and dead zones, and I still can't fly this flight model. I find it very easy to get into what I'd describe as Pilot Induced Oscillation, although I could swear the FM seems to go into gyrations all by itself sometimes.

The only thing I can figure out is that my machine isn't up to this game. I'm running a P4 3.4gHz with 4GB RAM and an NVidia 8800GT. I have some of the graphics options turned down quite a bit (visibility and terrain draw distance), to the point where I get a very smooth framerate in all but the most complex sceneries (e.g. downtown Seattle), where it starts to chop a little bit...

Regarding your climb rate -- I don't use the HUD but try looking at the climb indicator on the instrument panel (third gauge, 2nd row) and set the collective to make the needle on that instrument point to 9 o'clock to maintain altitude.

BTW since you're using the HUD, do you have Difficulty set to Trainee, or to Expert with the HUD turned on via customization?

cheers,

Dave.

I am enjoying the FM thoroughly!!! I'm not a pilot or anything, but everything seems more manageable and predictable. My approaches are much more accurate and hovering seems much easier. The softer ground effect is great!

The one thing I have noticed though, there doesn't appear to be a throttle level that keeps me from gaining or losing altitude. If I'm hovering (outside of ground effect), I'm either going up or down slightly. If I have the HUD of the gauges on, the green bar on the throttle gauge will not go to half way (midpoint) of the green half circle. Its either slightly above the half way, or slightly below. Sometimes it will flicker back and forth between above and below the midway point.

[dr. hladik 231]

2nightsta1ker:

Hi, I see you have changed designed RPM but you have not changed engine target RPM or MainRotor gearRatio.

Rotor RPM is based on engine RPM and DriveTrain MainRotor gearRatio, so you might want to change them as well.

usefull commands to check is RPMs are correct

array = enginesRpmRTD vehicle //gives you RPM for all engines

array = rotorsRpmRTD vehicle //gives you RPM for main and tail rotor

[maddogx 13]

Very nice initiative here. I've been waiting for patch 1.03 to get back in the game, hoping to "re-learn" it with a more authentic flight model, but this might just bring me back early. :)

[heli_flying 10]

2nightsta1ker:

Hi, I see you have changed designed RPM but you have not changed engine target RPM or MainRotor gearRatio.

Rotor RPM is based on engine RPM and DriveTrain MainRotor gearRatio, so you might want to change them as well.

usefull commands to check is RPMs are correct

array = enginesRpmRTD vehicle //gives you RPM for all engines

array = rotorsRpmRTD vehicle //gives you RPM for main and tail rotor

where i can write this commands??

[jedra 11]

where i can write this commands??

You can use the debugger in an editor run session.

To use the debugger just press ESC and then F1 in an editor preview.

[OMAC 254]

Using kb/mouse only, I can barely tell the difference between nightstalker's modded FM and the 1.02 FM. Perhaps I am doing something wrong. I'm using the TAG_TestFM.pbo provided by hon0:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2059434&postcount=5

Command:

"C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\Take On Helicopters\takeonh.exe" -nosplash -mod=@testfm

[hon0 10]

Do you hear a difference on the engine? It work only for the light 600 chopper to be sure it's active put the collective to full. You should see a little bug. rpm engine slow a bit too much I think so you can see the blade slow down a lot. If you don't then it's than the mod isn't active.

[OMAC 254]

Yes! The rotor slowdown is there (I'd seen it before, but wasn't sure that it was only in the modded FM). Thanks, hon0! J'aime votre pbo!

I revise what I wrote above. I like the modded FM significantly better than the original FM in 1.02. Landing without autohover is much easier (reduced ground effect and no more light on skids with full down coll.). Thanks for the excellent mod, nightstalker (et al.)!

In the original FM, when landing without autohover or autotrim (Expert), if I hit a little too much aft cyclic, I'd suddenly shoot backwards at like 50+ kph. Was that due to the excessive ground effect? I hated that, and it seems much reduced in nightstalker's mod. But it's also possible that I'm just getting better at Expert landings.... It's hard for me to judge what is going on, but I really like the modFM.

The only problem is, I'm debating whether to continue using the modFM or drop ToH until the next patch comes out!

[nightsta1ker 10]

Everyone needs to check out b101_uk's mod too! See the other flight dynamics thread for the link.

[samb 15]

Cannot find it:( Would You mind sharing a link with us?

SamB

[Hdez 1]

Hey, HOW in the world I make that work!? What's the installation process for that? IM freaking out!

[Panther353 10]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=126712&page=17 is where the link to the file is. How to make it work is in the readme file.

[nightsta1ker 10]

b101_uk's update is really easy and mine are going to mirror his from this point on. Basically you just copy the hsim file into your root TOH directory and go fly. It's as simple as that.

[heli_flying 10]

i think this one may help with the control feeling:

</FCSComponent>

<FCSComponent type="FCSRotationDamper">

<YawController P="0.0" D="0"/>

<PitchController P="0.0" D="0"/>

<RollController P="0.0" D="0.00"/>

</FCSComponent>

P="0.0" disable the damping system and you get direct control like in the real one (h-500)

[nightsta1ker 10]

I find all zeros to make it a little too unstable. Of course this can be adjusted for in the joystick sensitivity sliders. I have mine currently set at .5

As an update, I am currently working on a second patch which improves upon the excellent changes made by b101_uk. I am simply fine tuning the collective so that the descent rate is correct and reducing the effects of ground effect. I want to get this "perfect" so I am doing lots of edits to find the sweet spots. I hope to have the files repackaged and available for download on mediafire sometime over the weekend.

[BadWeather 10]

At the current version of the altered FM, the torque effect is so faint I have some proplems correcting it with the pedals I use. This is even with lowered sensitivity. My pedals are just not accurate enough at the edges of their movement range. So I'd like to know if there is a value in the xml I could change to get a more distinct torque effect I'd have to correct with more pedal input? You know like it was with the first xml published by heli_flying I believe.

Dampers are off, except for 0.3 on yaw, because of the pedals I have(MOMO wheel pedals). I've already tried lowering the sensitivity, but that did not prove to be the ultimate solution for me.

[b101_uk 10]

At the current version of the altered FM, the torque effect is so faint I have some proplems correcting it with the pedals I use. This is even with lowered sensitivity. My pedals are just not accurate enough at the edges of their movement range. So I'd like to know if there is a value in the xml I could change to get a more distinct torque effect I'd have to correct with more pedal input?

find the line that says:

<Controls A1UL="0" A1LL="0" B1UL="0" B1LL="0" thetaLL="37" thetaUL="-37" useExtendedCollectiveRange="true"/>

and change to e.g.:

<Controls A1UL="0" A1LL="0" B1UL="0" B1LL="0" thetaLL="15" thetaUL="-27" useExtendedCollectiveRange="true"/>

or just play with the thetaLL="15" thetaUL="-27" bits in the above line.

[nightsta1ker 10]

find the line that says:

<Controls A1UL="0" A1LL="0" B1UL="0" B1LL="0" thetaLL="37" thetaUL="-37" useExtendedCollectiveRange="true"/>

and change to e.g.:

<Controls A1UL="0" A1LL="0" B1UL="0" B1LL="0" thetaLL="15" thetaUL="-27" useExtendedCollectiveRange="true"/>

or just play with the thetaLL="15" thetaUL="-27" bits in the above line.

This is one of the changes that will be implemented in my second release. Thanks again! I am hoping to make this second release the "go to" patch for users who want a more realistic experience out of TOH.

[BadWeather 10]

nightsta1ker can you please check if it's the right xml you posted on the first page, because compared to the one armored sheep posted in the zip with all the xml's, this only changes rpm and sliding friction. I'm not counting dampers as I think those are more about personal preference. The reason I'm asking is because the advice above seems to fit better to the xml heli_flying posted earlier. Or are all these changes you mention in the first post already incorporated in the xml from the zip armored_sheep posted?

[heli_flying 10]

yes, when the helicopter gain speed without dampers it become unstable but the trick is tweak the horizontal stabilizer lift coefficients to ensure enough counter force to the rotor natural nose down moment with speed, the lack of force in the stabilizer is evident when you past the 80 knots and the helicopter still flying leveled with a exaggerated fuselage nose down attitude the real behavior is a exponential and progressive need of forward cyclic input with speed to maintain the helicopter at the same level and the body attitude less negative due to the nose up moment induced by the horizontal stabilizer

in this picture is evident the forward cyclic input with speed but the helicopter body still almost leveled:

[hon0 10]

I think we should "Sticky" a thread with all yours beta FM boy's.

Witch changelog etc..

Just an idea :)

Keep going ! At the moment I'm flying with the Nightstalker's one and.. Well... It's the best chopper exp. I ever had !

[nightsta1ker 10]

I don't know what Armored Sheep posted but my initial change was only to the .xml file and I copied the data out of the .xml and posted it in my spoiler at the bottom of my first post in this thread. Anything anyone else has done may not have anything to do with changes I have made.

In any case, it's irrelevant because I am working on a second patch, which will be downloadable and you will just be able to drop the folder into your root TOH directory and go fly. Please be patient. Time is limited for me to do this kind of thing.

Happy Thanksgiving (to everyone who celebrates it)!

[Isaac 10]

Someone has posted a pbo file with nightsta1ker tweaks on it and it works great for me. :bounce3:

A little request to those of you who are making FM modifications, please ensure that the modification has a unique name under the ToH Expansions list (is it called like that???).

While the pbo with nightsta1ker mod properly appeared as a unique name in the mod list the modification from b101_uk released as a bunch of folders with a .bin and a .xml appeared in my list as double entry of "Take on Helicopters".

I understand that those releases are beta / use at your own risk / it can blow up your computer... but if we start having different patches in two days we will be unable to identify who is making what...

Which leads me to make a suggestion to BIS to "lock down" the Take on Helicopters name in the expansion list for their own use.

Isaac