ARMA 2: OA beta build 86277 (1.60 MP build)

[KeyCat 131]

Thanks for testing OMAC.

Here is another maybe better repro. Just go prone and slow crawl as close to the right wall as possible. AI kills me everytime...

http://keycat.no-ip.com/files/A2OA_B86277_Xray2.zip

Another question is do 7.62 mm penetrate such walls that easy? Maybe some of you weapon experts with experience know?

/KC

[metalcraze 290]

7.62 can penetrate several brick walls in a row without much problem

There also was a good video where various ammunition was tested and brick walls can stop only 5.56 and even then only if 5.56 isn't continuously fired at that place in the wall.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKhMOfaYwvE

(AK-47 4th minute)

Edited November 11, 2011 by metalcraze

[KeyCat 131]

Why shouldn't he be able to kill you through a wall?

The thing is that the AI detects and kills you even if it impossible to see you since you are behind the wall.

7.62 can penetrate several brick walls in a row without much problem

Thanks, then that question is answered ;)

Edit: Forgott to add that I tried the same on other windowless buildings around that barn but they seems OK.

/KC

Edited November 11, 2011 by KeyCat

[OMAC 254]

7.62 can penetrate several brick walls in a row without much problem

There also was a good video where various ammunition was tested and brick walls can stop only 5.56 and even then only if 5.56 isn't continuously fired at that place in the wall.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKhMOfaYwvE

Yes, I saw that video. Good point! Perhaps this is expected behavior for the opfor weapon given the wall thickness and material?

[metalcraze 290]

I really hope that's intended as well (it seems logical). I've tested it with thick takistani walls (those giant thick fences of villages) - 7.62 doesn't penetrate them which seems OK.

I think why it may seem strange now is that AI wasn't engaging through walls in 1.59 but one of the not so recent betas included the fix (maybe related to glass fix) and I've witnessed AI engaging a squad of enemies hiding behind a thin concrete wall (those gray ones you see on Shapur, Takistan, Chernarus etc). After quite lengthy firing they didn't kill anyone but 1 guy which also means that they don't have an X-Ray vision.

Maybe a better test mission can be done outside of AI hearing zone since AI can also hear you crawling and moving behind walls (just like you can hear enemies doing that yourself)

Edited November 11, 2011 by metalcraze

[KeyCat 131]

I think why it may seem strange now is that AI wasn't engaging through walls in 1.59 but one of the not so recent betas included the fix (maybe related to glass fix) and I've witnessed AI engaging a squad of enemies hiding behind a thin concrete wall (those gray ones you see on Shapur, Takistan, Chernarus etc). After quite lengthy firing they didn't kill anyone but 1 guy which also means that they don't have an X-Ray vision.

Maybe it's just this building or buildings with windows? As I noted above I didn't notice anything wierd doing the same test (ie the AI did not detect me while slow crawling) on the other windowless buildings nearby.

/KC

[metalcraze 290]

I just did a test.

I put a soldier behind a concrete wall on Shapur and put myself on the other side.

I started with AK-74 which is 5.45 cal

I fired 3 full clips into the wall and they didn't penetrate it.

Then I took a 7.62 MK17 from the crate which I put near my position so to remain in the exactly same place. Almost immediately after firing several bullets into a wall I got "BLU ON BLU" message

So whether it's fair or not that they detect you behind that wall (which is possible since you are moving there) remains to be seen - but the wall penetration is quite fair.

[OMAC 254]

I think why it may seem strange now is that AI wasn't engaging through walls in 1.59

As I wrote above in an edit to my first post on this, I tested your missions in 1.59 vanilla and got the same behavior, so the AI does engage through the wall in 1.59.

I made a new mission where you start in one of the side hallways of the same cow barn. The hallway also has windows, and the AI thus sees you and engages you, but his bullets do not penetrate the wall of the hallway, which is correctly modeled unlike the other wall.

http://tinyurl.com/6qfmy9h

Edited November 11, 2011 by OMAC

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Concerning Mk17, i think it should fit 7.62x39 mags too...

I tried but it didn't work,this gun was made for this purpose...

[mr.g-c 6]

Concerning Mk17, i think it should fit 7.62x39 mags too...

I tried but it didn't work,this gun was made for this purpose...

There is yet still no field-conversion-package available from FN Herstal up till this date....

And it requires field-stripping, etc to make it 7,62x39mm ready.

As a default the MK17 uses the FN FAL Magazines... ;-)

[papoose244 10]

I have a question guys will all the netcode fixes be applied to Arma 2 Aswell?

[jakerod 254]

Depending on what barn you guys are using the building may be bugged. I remember that those long white barns that are actually cowsheds have a glitch where the AI acts like the building isn't there or something. I believe there was a ticket for it somewhere but I don't remember which it was. It could be a different building though.

[KeyCat 131]

Depending on what barn you guys are using the building may be bugged. I remember that those long white barns that are actually cowsheds have a glitch where the AI acts like the building isn't there or something. I believe there was a ticket for it somewhere but I don't remember which it was. It could be a different building though.

No, thats the one. Will see if I can find the ticket.

Edit: Found it. You have good memory Jakerod!

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/7147

/KC

Edited November 11, 2011 by KeyCat

[OMAC 254]

Yep, thanks Jakerod. If you move the opfor AI to the other side of the cow barn, everything is normal and he cannot engage you through that wall. I thought something odd was going on there!

Edited November 11, 2011 by OMAC

[metalcraze 290]

Indeed, there's no bullet collision with one of the walls.

[jakerod 254]

No, thats the one. Will see if I can find the ticket.

Edit: Found it. You have good memory Jakerod!

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/7147

/KC

I only remember because my entire squad got massacred behind one once from a mixture of bullets flying through the entire building and my stupid AI throwing a grenade into the wall and killing the few of us that were left. I guess I also remember because I'm making an island and I was debating whether or not I should use it recently.

[KeyCat 131]

And seany beats me with ~2 years for noticing this :)

/KC

[OMAC 254]

I just did a test.

I put a soldier behind a concrete wall on Shapur and put myself on the other side.

I started with AK-74 which is 5.45 cal

I fired 3 full clips into the wall and they didn't penetrate it.

Then I took a 7.62 MK17 from the crate which I put near my position so to remain in the exactly same place. Almost immediately after firing several bullets into a wall I got "BLU ON BLU" message

I get lethal concrete wall penetration (tested in Shapur) with any US 7.62 mm MG (M240, MK48), and the MK17, but not with the Russian 7.62 AKM or AKS, or the silenced MK17 CCO SD.

See for yourselves:

http://tinyurl.com/6q7s89c

3 opfor on other side of wall.

Edited November 11, 2011 by OMAC

[icebreakr 3159]

^^ Well that makes sense... not.

[nkenny 1057]

7.62x39mm SOVIET

7.62x51mm NATO

Spot the difference. Then try again with a PK or SVD. (7.62×54mmR)

[OMAC 254]

Yep, any Russian 7.62x54mm weapon is lethal through the wall. Repro updated to include boxes for Russian and US basic and special weapons.

[maddogx 13]

Is it just me, or does this beta suffer from some increased LOD flickering? I remember it being almost gone a few betas back, but now I'm often noticing buildings, rocks, trees etc. flickering between two LODs quite often. This apparently doesn't happen if the camera is absolutely steady, only when it is turning.

I'll see if I can find some way to consistently reproduce it on my end.

Btw. the problem can be mitigated by setting object detail to very high, but this costs too much performance for me.

[metalcraze 290]

or the silenced MK17 CCO SD

This is perfectly OK since it uses less powerful subsonic ammunition

Also as pointed above 51mm vs. soviet 39mm which means less powder thus less power

(avg. muzzle velocity of 39 is 714m/s while for 51 it's 820m/s)

If you say 54 is lethal - then I don't see the problem. Seems to be quite a realistic job on BIS side when it comes to concrete.

However AKs should penetrate brick walls

Edited November 12, 2011 by metalcraze

[OMAC 254]

If you say 54 is lethal - then I don't see the problem. Seems to be quite a realistic job on BIS side when it comes to concrete.

There is no problem with this at all that I can see. Just pointing out a job well done by BIS. I had never before shot through walls, so I was trying to learn which weapons would do the job.

[metalcraze 290]

The best weapon to do such job is a dude with M240