Colonel Gadaffi found

[Beagle 684]

Personal opinion again.

He should have suffered more. Think about all the stuff that he was involved with and / or sanctioned.

Payback is a bitch!

That's a really disgusting statement!

[Mr. Charles 22]

I'm afraid this has nothing to do with being able to be a democracy or not, even though i doubt that they will be able to meet democracy compliances soon too.

Take liberated countries from Nazis after WW2 ending for example : lot's of fellow people having worked with Nazis were executed without any kind of trial, and those countries (including mine) were / are democracies. See how Mussolini was executed.

I guess those retaliations are unavoidable after the fall of a dictatorship, even if i don't agree with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

;)

[sudayev 27]

This fanatic crowd is far away from democratic ideas and its humane values. Some people compare Libyans to Danes or Norwegians under Hitler's rule - ready to overthrow them and implement the democracy. Ha ha. Iustitia civitatis fundamentum - not in Libya. Majority of Libyan people still follow The Code of Hammurabi, and it's correct they are still in 1700BC, one thousand year will pass till they fully realize what democracy is all about.

I never supported Gaddafi in this conflict and I knew that sooner or later his time will come, but it pisses me of how people are in awe of how ntc handled Gaddafi. Such reactions make me to believe that these people are ready to behave in similar manner - to disrespect and to destroy - eye for an eye. Please wake up or go back to medieval times.

Every damn human being deserves some basic rights guaranteed by the Geneva Conventions (Libyan Arab Jamahiriya signed in 22.05.1956).

According to translation of very fresh video showing alive Gaddafi ,there was one Libyan voice yelling - get off him and keep him alive. At least one rebel shown some sense, but no one would listen.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Sudayev

[dale0404 5]

That's a really disgusting statement!

Bothered? Not in the slightest. And it might be a disgusting statement in your eyes and others.

Me? Happy as larry.

Remember, there are a lot of military type personnel within these forums (me included) so I can imagine that the majority of those agree with me.

[ProfTournesol 956]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

;)

Well, there was a trial for the people caught by the regular Armies, but a lot of summary executions for the others.

[st_dux 26]

Well, there was a trial for the people caught by the regular Armies, but a lot of summary executions for the others.

And even when there is a trial, let's be honest: It's just for show. We go through judicial theatrics just so we can make ourselves feel better about the whole violence thing, so we can rationalize it and reconcile it with contemporary notions of fairness and morality.

If Gaddafi had been given a trial first, the end result would have been exactly the same. It makes no difference.

[Beagle 684]

And even when there is a trial, let's be honest: It's just for show. We go through judicial theatrics just so we can make ourselves feel better about the whole violence thing, so we can rationalize it and reconcile it with contemporary notions of fairness and morality.

If Gaddafi had been given a trial first, the end result would have been exactly the same. It makes no difference.

You don't actualyl follow the trials right? There a quite a lot of verdict of not guilty happening in Den Haag. A drumhead courtmartial in Guantanamo is still not considered general court by the international court.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

This fanatic crowd is far away from democratic ideas and its humane values.

<snip>

According to translation of very fresh video showing alive Gaddafi ,there was one Libyan voice yelling - get off him and keep him alive. At least one rebel shown some sense, but no one would listen.

Fully agree. I really don't understand how we can sit here and just throw away right and wrong, even based on non existing personal anger. "Hail Democracy, but screw right and wrong processes" - did I miss a turn somewhere? Pretty hypocritical :( Everyone nowadays being "killed on sight" rather than realistically processed, doesn't smell good at all.

I can understand the rebels though, because of the close hatred. That will always happen in war. But we're not part of that. Unless he killed my whole family in torture and whatnot, how could I possibly hate someone to the point where Democratic processes are ignored? One of which is the right to a fair trial.

Pretty disgusting, to be perfectly honest.

[ProfTournesol 956]

His son Muatassim was obviously executed too, according to the video and pictures i've seen today.

[slatts 1978]

i think the newspapers over-did the picture of him dead/alive

was in the shops today and noticed all the newspapers were upside-down, sports side up. asked why and the owner said that kids were screaming at them when they came in with their parents and he couldnt look at a dead man all day

[st_dux 26]

Fully agree. I really don't understand how we can sit here and just throw away right and wrong, even based on non existing personal anger. "Hail Democracy, but screw right and wrong processes" - did I miss a turn somewhere? Pretty hypocritical :( Everyone nowadays being "killed on sight" rather than realistically processed, doesn't smell good at all.

I can understand the rebels though, because of the close hatred. That will always happen in war. But we're not part of that. Unless he killed my whole family in torture and whatnot, how could I possibly hate someone to the point where Democratic processes are ignored? One of which is the right to a fair trial.

Pretty disgusting, to be perfectly honest.

A trial would have done nothing in this case but delay the inevitable. It would have been theater, nothing more. The fact of the matter is that the NTC rebels have violently overthrown their government. That means that any trial would have to take place under the new government, and Gaddafi, being the creator, leader and figurehead of the old, now-illegitimate government, would have to be killed. His very existence under the new system would be illegal; the new system will have been based on his removal.

Notions of law and order, of fair trials and the like, are not relevant and have no meaning in a state of violent overthrow. The use of violence to topple the state necessarily undermines all such notions; it implies that the law itself is illegitimate.

[Beagle 684]

ST_Dux

You may not know but the diffence is hughe because in the civilized world there is no death sentence. so NO it's not the same beeing courted or beeing killed by a mob. btw. your statement says tat the US goverment is illegitimate too and should be shot by a mob at the next corner.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Beagle

[st_dux 26]

ST_Dux

You may not know but the diffence is hughe because in the civilized world there is no death sentence. so NO it's not the same beeing courted or beeing killed by a mob. btw. your statement says tat the US goverment is illegitimate too and should be shot by a mob at the next corner.

There is only one real world, and it's not "the civilized world."

With regard to the U.S., I have no idea how you reached that conclusion. The United States is not undergoing a violent overthrow right now. There is no analogy.

[Beagle 684]

There is only one real world, and it's not "the civilized world."

With regard to the U.S., I have no idea how you reached that conclusion. The United States is not undergoing a violent overthrow right now. There is no analogy.

Just wait a little more...in Lybia it started the same way. As you might not habe noticed, but the USA is world leader in the new world totalitarism.

War is peace, ignorance is strenght.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Beagle

[Mr. Charles 22]

Cx6oczHss24

fix'd

[Dead3yez 0]

The only thing I found sickening is all those "western" politicians shaking hands with the man.

Although, perhaps disturbing to watch his death. After some thought, there is no doubt he did deserve what was coming. He should have been eliminated a long time ago...

@Beagle

Maybe your perception will change if someone like this ever starts funding terrorist organisations with weapons and equipment that are used to blow up your own fellow countrymen into lots tiny bits in towns and cities near where you live.

Not to mention the things that he did to his own people.

[Beagle 684]

Do not quote videos

fix'd

thanks ;)

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 PM ----------

The only thing I found sickening is all those "western" politicians shaking hands with the man.

Although, perhaps disturbing to watch his death. After some thought, there is no doubt he did deserve what was coming. He should have been eliminated a long time ago...

@Beagle

Maybe your perception will change if someone like this ever starts funding terrorist organisations with weapons and equipment that are used to blow up your own fellow countrymen into lots tiny bits in towns and cities near where you live.

Not to mention the things that he did to his own people.

Mr- deadeyez...as you might see im from germany. As you might not know I lived under a totalitarian regime the first 17 years of my life... I know how it felt...and right now the feelign is coming back STRONGER AS BEFORE...And I can't belive that so few can see it coming right at their homes by now. Edited October 21, 2011 by Foxhound

[mrcash2009 0]

The only thing I found sickening is all those "western" politicians shaking hands with the man.

All is good in the hood when it suits the time :) Though you never see people having a go at those who did the deals and handshaking, just go for the demon, dont worry about the rest .. move along, nothing to see here.

Now thats all done, I can see a tribal shitstorm waiting to happen, I wonder if all of a sudden NATO "go on the ground" like they said they wont before when the bran new in fighting starts, how timed would that be.

Edited October 21, 2011 by mrcash2009

[ziiip 1]

Good riddance.

[mrcash2009 0]

Good riddance.

Nothing will change, I even bet what they get next is worse but in a different way, groundhog day for the middle east. Edited October 21, 2011 by mrcash2009

[PELHAM 10]

Going back to guess work forensics and looking at the body - has anyone seen the recent pictures?

There is a close up image of the upper abdominal gunshot. It is to the right of centreline just below the ribs. That places it over the area where the liver, spleen and stomach are. It's also close to the pancreas.

The other obvious thing about it are the powder marks and stippling around the wound. This indicates a close gunshot. Rebels in interviews say they shot him there with a 9mm round. They did not say when that happened.

If you are looking for the shot that killed him this is probably it. A build up of pressure in the skull from the head wound would have played a part. but that did not seem to be troubling him much initially. No one, however, survives a hole in the stomach and liver for very long without urgent medical treatment.

They have delayed the funeral because no-one wants him buried on their land, so they say they aren't sure what to do with him. Also this gives time for a post mortem which will be conducted tomorrow. It will be interesting to find out who does it and what they find.

If there is any good in this it will be the effect it has on other tyrants who will be a little disturbed by it. They saw Gadaffi as a leader of their mob and assumed he was untouchable. Lets hope it leads some of the others to become more reasonable in future. General Manuel Noriega was highly disturbed by the pictures of Chauchesku's execution and it led to his swift surrender a few days later. I wonder if anyone else has taken note lol.

(@Beagle - do you have a 6ftx2ft space in your garden facing south east? Perhaps you can help them out?)

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

thanks ;)

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 PM ----------

Mr- deadeyez...as you might see im from germany. As you might not know I lived under a totalitarian regime the first 17 years of my life... I know how it felt...and right now the feelign is coming back STRONGER AS BEFORE...And I can't belive that so few can see it coming right at their homes by now.

Well you get to vote on it now don't you? You also get to tell us you don't like it without fear of arrest by the Stasi or having them drill little peep holes in your walls and scribbling notes in your file on your personal habits. So join a political party, run your campaign and vote on it.

Edited October 21, 2011 by PELHAM

[Cripsis 10]

Now thats all done, I can see a tribal shitstorm waiting to happen, I wonder if all of a sudden NATO "go on the ground" like they said they wont before when the bran new in fighting starts, how timed would that be.

I strongly doubt NATO will send in ground troops, not since the bitter lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan, but I do agree with your prediction of a tribal shitstorm looming.

[Dead3yez 0]

Let the rebels do most of the work. Steal the oil. :)

Yay, more oil for us!

[jw custom 56]

That's a really disgusting statement!

Well Gadaffi was a disgusting man.

[jblackrupert 14]

Funny how people act when they have a gun in their hand and the guy who raped their women, killed their families and friends for 42 years at their feet.

He's lucky he wasn't quartered

---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 AM ----------

Gadhafi put on display in shopping center freezer

http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafi-put-display-shopping-center-freezer-215525065.html

This is gonna make some people seriously rethink any ideas of being or becoming a dictator.

Edited October 22, 2011 by jblackrupert