A new dimension: inside vehicles&planes - optics

[Herbal Influence 10]

I would like BIS to stay and be ahead of other gamemakers. :)

Therefore I recommend to entertain the thought of blurrying and thinning out windowframes etc. that hinder the sight when within a vehicle/plane. This would give a far more realistic view. The trigger should be the focus point of the gamer: If he focusses on the instruments these should be shown sharp. When focussing on the horizon the frames of windows etc. (all inside objects) should blurr and also (!) thin out, especially hindering frames of windows.

The human brain exactly does that: blurr and thin out hindrances of sight.

And it does that automatically when you focus on far away things instead of focussing on the instruments in front of you.

At the moment BIS does simply show sharpened and detailed both levels: the faraway sight and the close-by things.

http://vimeo.com/4346695

In reality noone would use such a vehicle/plane for it would be much to much narrowing the natural view. :eek: In other words and for example: The frames of a window are in fact and reality quite not at all any more visible if they are blurred because the eyes focus on something far away.

[metalcraze 290]

I'm actually glad DOF was cut out in AA2 (what you want was there in AA1)

DOF is a terrible terrible effect since your brain should blur things, not things get blurred on the screen while you still focus on that blur with your own eyes - which causes a headache

[Herbal Influence 10]

Mmmm ... thanx for the info.

I played AA1 but didn't realize ...

But nowadays I feel caged in a vehic/plane behind thick frames ... mmm ... maybe it's psychological ... as I also hate No-third-view ... ;-)

I found this now:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=1361864&highlight=DOF+field+view#post1361864

And I sure hate postprocessing-effects-headaches a lot.

So what remains is: very little blurr but a lot of "thinning out" the width of the optical hindrances just to simulate what the brain does naturally.

Another example: I have here a blind (or "jalousie") at my window consisting of gills:

If I look AT it I do see the gills.

If I look THROUGH it I don't "see" the gills.

The same should automatically "happen" by defocussing from the instruments board in front of you in a vehic/plane/chopper. To a LARGE extent - then it would really be realistic.

We HAVE a very intensively compensating "brain-view" on things ... mmm ... at last I do .. ;-)

Edited September 13, 2011 by Herbal Influence

[celery 8]

"simulate what the brain does naturally."

That pretty much says it all. The game can't know where you're looking, and because you can't clearly see more than the immediate surroundings of the point you're looking at, a blur effect doesn't matter until it tries to be smart and guesses wrong where you want to look.

[PuFu 4600]

"simulate what the brain does naturally."

That pretty much says it all. The game can't know where you're looking, and because you can't clearly see more than the immediate surroundings of the point you're looking at, a blur effect doesn't matter until it tries to be smart and guesses wrong where you want to look.

+1. I hate when a game blurs things for me. I mean that happens anyway, depending on what i am focusing on screen.

[Herbal Influence 10]

Ok, as I already stated, I hate blurss that cause headaches when using postprocessing in my first attempts to play AA2 too. I switched it off and headaches were gone.

But nevertheless the optical-caged-in-effect is a serious immersionkiller for me.

So, as already stated it should be quite a sharp thin-out effect of everything that's in the way of the actual focus.

The latter, the actual focus, can be "realized" by the program by the mouse position?

[jagheterjan 10]

I see how that could work when used alongside a dedicated head- or eye-tracking instrument, but not by just guessimating the focus from the mouse cursor's position. More than often, you don't want to use the mouse to command the game's focus on the z-plane, but do something useful with it. Like dragging a RCWS's aim reticle over your target or just steer the vehicle/your ingame avatar...

[celery 8]

But nevertheless the optical-caged-in-effect is a serious immersionkiller for me.

So, as already stated it should be quite a sharp thin-out effect of everything that's in the way of the actual focus.

The latter, the actual focus, can be "realized" by the program by the mouse position?

And what happens when you want to look in the blurred areas?

[max power 21]

So what you want is essentially a transparent cockpit? No thanks.

And what's with all these feature requests ending in 'this is serious immersion killer for me'. I can understand that people are creative and they are suggesting ways to improve the game in their eyes... but am I the only one left on the planet with an imagination robust enough to get 'into' a game that has window frames in the cockpits? FFS.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess you would need an extra device + tools which constantly analyze players view/eyesight and port these information as fast as possible into the game world. There it should be all translated and calculated with players avatars eye.... within nanoseconds?

Many game designers try to copy human eyes but fail as soon as they bring in some sort of camera/film or "immersive" effects.

[Herbal Influence 10]

And what happens when you want to look in the blurred areas?

They get sharp when you focus with the mouse on them.

Like in real life.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 ----------

So what you want is essentially a transparent cockpit? No thanks.

And what's with all these feature requests ending in 'this is serious immersion killer for me'. I can understand that people are creative and they are suggesting ways to improve the game in their eyes... but am I the only one left on the planet with an imagination robust enough to get 'into' a game that has window frames in the cockpits? FFS.

Well, as I said:

If I look AT it I do see the gills.

If I look THROUGH it I don't "see" the gills.

My intention is a more realistic view.

An ol' war veteran, chopper pilot, posted on this forum that he wouldn't like to fly a chopper without 3rd view ... a six years ago ...

[max power 21]

Unfortunately, no aircraft has venetian blinds over the cockpit glass.

When I'm driving in my car, just as when I was flying an airplane, I only need to move my eyes to check my gauges. I don't have to lift my hand and point in order to be able to see what my speedometer says. Similarly, when I focus my eyes on distand objects, I cannot magically see through the A pillar like it isn't there.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Max Power

[Herbal Influence 10]

Window frames etc. blurr quite completely out if you don't focus on them.

I mentioned venetian blinds only as an extreme example to make things clear.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

But the game don't know what you're trying to focus on unless you provide some possibly hard to use interface for it. Personally I think even a "far/close" toggle key would be a pain to use for something that is supposed to happen automatically.

Even on rifles on the ground it can be not so pretty, and optics could be hard set to a far mode without dynamic adjusting. Assuming i.e. 5-20 meters to be hyperfocal depending on optics (which is a stretch), everything behind being in full focus.

[Herbal Influence 10]

Ok, CarlGustaffa, thanx.

What about binding it simply to the zoom in/out - function that we already have?

[celery 8]

They get sharp when you focus with the mouse on them.

Like in real life.

I'm sorry that you need a mouse to focus your eyes irl.

[kremator 1065]

You should see what I use a joystick for irl!

[hellfire257 3]

I know someone who plays ARMA2 who cannot play many other FPS games with of all this FOV blur stuff because it makes him throw up.

Simply put, what we have now works fine for the majority of people, and it doesn't cause others to vomit.

[160thSOAR 10]

Our eyes already do this to some extent. As I am typing this message, I see the signature of the guy above me (Hellfire257) as more of a gray blur than an actual aircraft. I can still kind of tell that it's an aircraft, but I have no idea what is attached to the pilons or anything until I actually shift my eyes up.

Long story short, our body does this for us already. It might not be to the same extent, but it is there. There is no need to try to simulate the human eye with a camera and in all likelihood fail.