Grenades - Gameplay

[AstroMan 10]

well, now it'll be cheap Greece walls.......

[HyperU2 11]

As long as it's not back doors.

[Tom1 10]

I see what you did there :D

Grenades should be like how they were a while ago in ACE mod, you can press shift H to select throwing mode. There is precision (like how smoke nades are thrown at the moment) , there is normal , there is a tiny over hand for getting over fences and high walls, a fast roll, a slow roll and a simple drop throwing mode for all grenades.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

well, now it'll be extremely modern and expensive Greek walls.

Fix'd.

[dale0404 5]

Walls, lots of walls, still cant hit one with a grenade though...

[rye1 21]

:L

Pgup, pgdown.. WAIT I'M RANGING MY NADE TO 10m.

[wipman 1]

Hi, make the nades their own selectable weapon class as someone said, will be the best thing IMO; slinging the weapon and holding the nade close to your groin or chest, with a hand arround the nade holding the safe and the finger on the ring (for the [quick throw] animation) showing a transparent trayectory arc on the screen.

No hold BM1 to give it force, just rise the view to extend the trayectory; that'll simulate much better all the common grenade throwing movements, as weapon... it could have it's own fire modes as:

- 'From Above' (to throw it over obstacles such as walls, vehicles or 2nd floors from below).

- 'Rolling Stone' (to throw it by the ground as you'll throw a rock to a lake's water to make it bounce).

- 'Catch That' (to throw it directly as you'll throw a baseball ball).

- 'Grenade' (to throw it the common "relaxed" way).

And making the grenades (all of 'em) a weapon as the main or secundary weapons would allow to do the trayectory's arc as the ViewPlayer LOD, leveled it with the ground showing the exact impact point after be trown; you'll not see where it'll land if you don't have a visual to this point, as IRL. But you'll be able of throw the nade (flashbang, Incediary or frag) on all the most common ways that the nades are used; on a clear, simple, easy and practical way. Let's C ya

[Tarmak 0]

Instead of putting a crosshair, why doing not bring to light the zone where we would like that the grenade goes ??

Sorry, but i don't like crosshair...:p

[Minoza 11]

This is actually pretty good idea!

But how would you deal with throwing a grenade over your head/wall to get it just behind it?

[Tarmak 0]

hum, you don't..... too dangerous !!

Seriously, maybe with a keys association: click + spacebar or anything else.

If you would be more definite, maybe use the same range system like sniper rifle.

Increase and decrease range with "page up" and "page down" as said Rye but in much less definite with a margin of error in the order of many meters.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Tarmak

[nkenny 1051]

Grenades behave incalcuably in many situations.

As it would happen I am a rather practiced user of handgrenades in Arma2. Usually I play on expert game mode (no helpers) and I submit that the difficulty and predicament of using hand grenades are two fold in nature:

1. Grenades bounce too much.

2. Throwing animations leave you immobile and the 'force' of the throw does not affect the inherent speed of the animation.

If BIS provides these two small fixes, both of which are slated to be part of Arma3, grenades would be immesuarably more realistic and instinctive in use. Additional HUD helpers or elements are unecessary. 'Hold button for more power' is practically an industry standard and practically second nature.

-k

Edited September 20, 2011 by NkEnNy

[VampyricTyrant 10]

I really don't understand why mess with all that that much. Just make you give it power with the speed of your body like all classic FPS that way you can simulate all kinds of throws.

[rye1 21]

like all classic FPS that way you can simulate all kinds of throws.

<3 the only good thing they got right. That's why AA uses that system, and it is a military orientated game with military guys in the background working on it.

[onlyrazor 11]

I'd like to see a kind of spot of light on the place you're targeting, so you know approximately where it's going to land.

[VampyricTyrant 10]

I'd like to see a kind of spot of light on the place you're targeting, so you know approximately where it's going to land.

that would take no skill ;)

ΑΑ2/3, and Counter-Strike have the best systems, the only problem is that ArmA is faster than these two games.

[rye1 21]

[Minoza 11]

Yeah, that's what I'd like to see in A3.

Also, some solution for situations when you just want to roll a grenade in through the doors/openings.

[Tom1 10]

Dragon Rising crossed with AA3.

Grenades should be a seperate, selectable weapon. They should however, have a hotkey (say G) to select them (not throw them) and from there the lmb can overarm throw the nade and the longer the button is held the further it goes. (AA3 style) and the rmb will roll it (Dragon Rising style)

Seeing as grenades (in this example) are their own seperate weapon, there could also be two firemodes: straight and lob (or whatever name you want, but one is a full on high lob for going over walls, the other is a straight baseball pitch style throw for accuracy. In both modes the rmb will roll the nade. )

Or there could be 3 firemodes, with roll beign one of them, but the first suggestion requires less cycling to find the firemode you want, every milisecond counts ;)

[Minoza 11]

Exactly my thoughts.

Though, I don't want to expose myself while rolling a nade in some building or yard... I want to be able to stack up and roll it in sideways, without exposing myself, if you get what I mean.

[Tom1 10]

Yeah, although I don't know how they could get that to work ingame, although if they could get it to work I would really welcome it. You may be able to get by if you are able to throw a nade from a lean instead of pressing the throw button, then snapping out of lean to throw the nade at the wall in front of you killing you -.-

[Minoza 11]

Maybe something like SMK. But it's a bit too much confusing in that mod IMO. I always get lost while trying to do something simple like throwing nade in a yard through the opening. I like their idea, but it can be improved upon.

Btw. why are people always against "cover positions"? It's not arcady at all if done right, it doesn't have to be snap system with predetermined positions, it can be just like in SMK, you don't think that is arcadish, don't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMTP7fYnVjc

Fact is, most of the time, when in cover, you wouldn't even face the wall, your back or your side would. You do realize that current system is actaully way more arcade and unnatural? I have some ideas, but I guess it would be easier if I just show you, but I have no idea how to show my idea. :D

Imagine your movement being more dynamic, adaptive I'd say. It is quite natural, and it can be done. I get my ideas from games like Mirrors Edge and mods like Free run mod for Crysis. Yeah, I know what you mean, but before bashing me, think about it. I'm not saying we need parkour game :D but we do need some system that will make all the movement and actions (like throwing) more natural, intuitive and adaptive, especially when it comes to CQB. Instead of bitching, why not look at games which have done that right? Or at least went into right direction with ideas. Some of you get all the wrong attitude if someone even mentions BF... Why? If it's different, or part of arcade game, it doesn't necessarily mean that particular segment isn't realistic or good. I still haven't really seen that ANT system in action (or whatever is called), but if it's good, why not have something similar in Arma 3?

Edited September 22, 2011 by Minoza

[Tom1 10]

Maybe something like SMK. But it's a bit too much confusing in that mod IMO. I always get lost while trying to do something simple like throwing nade in a yard through the opening. I like their idea, but it can be improved upon.

Btw. why are people always against "cover positions"? It's not arcady at all if done right, it doesn't have to be snap system with predetermined positions, it can be just like in SMK, you don't think that is arcadish, don't you?

Fact is, most of the time, when in cover, you wouldn't even face the wall, your back or your side would. You do realize that current system is actaully way more arcade and unnatural? I have some ideas, but I guess it would be easier if I just show you, but I have no idea how to show my idea. :D

Imagine your movement being more dynamic, adaptive I'd say. It is quite natural, and it can be done. I get my ideas from games like Mirrors Edge and mods like Free run mod for Crysis. Yeah, I know what you mean, but before bashing me, think about it. I'm not saying we need parkour game :D but we do need some system that will make all the movement and actions (like throwing) more natural, intuitive and adaptive, especially when it comes to CQB. Instead of bitching, why not look at games which have done that right? Or at least went into right direction with ideas. Some of you get all the wrong attitude if someone even mentions BF... Why? If it's different, or part of arcade game, it doesn't necessarily mean that particular segment isn't realistic or good. I still haven't really seen that ANT system in action (or whatever is called), but if it's good, why not have something similar in Arma 3?

This is from a different thread regarding leaning.

"If BIS is serious about CQB being one of their major improvement goals, then perhaps leaning will be useful after all. In this case, I believe that the current system is great, BUT units should lean out about 30% more then they do at the moment.

Also, the ability to lean while prone (GRAW 2 style) would be really helpfull and neccesary, and the new roll-over key combination could be [default walkkey] shift + q/e.

Also, A cover system like Gears of War or GRAW where you stick to cover is a HORRIBLE IDEA, but that animation pack had a little thing where you could duck slightly to hind behind lower cover. This would be cool in Arma 3.

Also, now that we have physics, when a player goes into aim mode near cover, they should automatically 'push up' a little to be able to see over the cover. Many players don't like the idea of being forced to automatically lift up to see over cover, even if it ONLY happens when you are in aim mode (which generally means you are trying to shoot anyway), so maybe that "duck down to take cover" idea I mentioned a few sentences ago could be used to make the player duck back down again even while the player is in aim mode.

That little "get down to take cover" feature would not happen automatically though, as many players, including myself, not only prefere but also benifit from the freedom to move in-game how WE want, the only automatic cover system kinda thing would be slightly raising your aim to see over a high wall when in aim mode (I mean who aims down sights if they aren't trying to shoot in the first place) and this can be counter acted by pressing the 'cover' button. "

Also with the improved animations, cqb and cover would work perfectly I presume.

[Minoza 11]

I went a bit offtopic here but it's kind of related. Take a look at the video I posted above, it kind of explains what I mean. Though, I still think it can be improved upon. And yes, I agree with all what you said.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Minoza

[VampyricTyrant 10]

I went a bit offtopic here but it's kind of related. Take a look at the video I posted above, it kind of explains what I mean. Though, I still think it can be improved upon. And yes, I agree with all what you said.

Things get way too complicated this way, in my opinion.

Simple like AA2/3, CoD, CS, Halo or BF would be better.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Imo its better to re-vamp animation system for throwing things.

Consolish power indicators won't look and feel good anyway. It should be that the player has to practice a little to get used to throwing stuff around, to be precise and effective. Kinda sucks more if players can always "sniper-throw" grenades no matter if he is stationary or on the run.