Still warping / Network Lagging

[Atkins 10]

Simply put, this is a problem with the netcode.

Even when I host locally I get the same problems and that is on a gigabit LAN with a 980x etc.

I've spent hours messing with the net settings and the problem remains.

No no... didn't you read earlier that update ur pc loozer or suck it up or uninstall it :D

But seriously, warping, generally bad cpu usage (lack of optimization) and LOD flickering has made me uninstall the game several times already.

BIS seems to be more interested in releasing new addons and expansion packs then fixing 4+ year old gamestopping issues...

[bangtail 0]

They are working on it - I guess it requires alot of work.

[jw custom 56]

I've been playing some PvP lately with around 60 players and with a ping about 60ms and never experienced any warping, i have experienced it with AI quite often though!

[acoustic 82]

From what I understand, it could still be a while. Suma indicated that they would try to push out 1.60 fairly soon with single player interpolation only. Multiplayer will still be the old 1.59 system, i.e. warping.

Once 1.60 is out, they should get on the MP interpolation fairly soon, which we will most likely be testing in the form of beta patches.

So improved MP gameplay should hopefully be coming in 1.61, though it's unlikely that we'll get any kind of definitive time frame for it.

1.61 sounds to me like it won't be out till right before or with Arma III. My main head scratching question is how does BI expect Arma III to gain sells if their netcode is still crap? All of these nice new animations, physics, and other features are good looking but will look horrible if they are warping all over the place. I would have gotten the netcode working before any development on III was made.

[tarabas 10]

Without working Multiplayer i will never Buy Arma2, have made the mistake two times and wait 3 years now for a patch that is a gamebreaker and get nothing.

i recommend all players, magazines and fansites to tell everyone not to buy cause of this gamebreaker bug, so customers save the money.

[Beagle 684]

Actually I think the content bugs and simply missing because intentional left out features albeit a simple unit cfg fix would cure it (missing IHADSS in AH1Z comes to mind as ust ONE example) as well as removed features (some kind of "bugfixing" BI is doing more and more often) are far worse than MP performance.

Warping and Lag can already be "fixed" by better, more client and server friendly mission parameters. The 3rd party introduction of 24+ Player missions with high A.I. count was a bad idea and despite the limits are already visible some admins and mission makers still try to push it.

You can't make a FIAT perform like a Ferrari.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Beagle

[gonk 0]

Future MP Technique

I can see what BIS are trying to do however, I believe this technique alone will not fix the problem and in many cases will probably make it worse. e.g. when there is a large amount of maneuvering or changes. Trying to predict the future of a player’s position is extremely hard and only really works in a constant velocity situation.. So, we have to find a way to try out blend the positional errors.

The net code of ARMA2 is actually very good. It tracks 100's of thousands of objects in an effort to keep them in synch on everyone's pc. The problem is how it deals with the positional errors.

e.g. From my observations it looks like when the positional data of an entity is sent from the server, the client instantly moves the entity to the correct position, if an error is detected. This instantaneous positional update causes the warp. I have played games that use a more blending technique to make it look more natural. e.g. make the item move say, double speed (or slow down) towards the next expected position. This will produce a rubber banding effect but it is more tolerable then a warp.

So basically speaking, the client receives the new position, determines the positional error and sends corrective velocity data to the entity not corrective positional data. This will cause the object to move towards the correct position and look more natural. Plus using the above mentioned interpolating technique, I believe this would make the game look as smooth as silk.

Aircraft would be the best to apply this technique to, because their position above 100 ft is not that critical. e.g. with no reference items beside them the rubber banding is not noticeable.

I think this technique is too late for ARMA2, as it would require an entire re-write of the way it handles the errors but I hope this is a technique they are looking into for ARMA3. Thanks BIS and good luck.

Edited September 5, 2011 by gonk

[maddogx 13]

1.61 sounds to me like it won't be out till right before or with Arma III.

How did you come to that conclusion? See this post by Suma from last Wednesday. They're getting ready to release 1.60 in the next few days, barring any major regressions introduced in recent betas.

After that they'll be working on the MP fixes, which we will be testing in the betas. You think that will take a whole year? :rolleyes:

My main head scratching question is how does BI expect Arma III to gain sells if their netcode is still crap? All of these nice new animations, physics, and other features are good looking but will look horrible if they are warping all over the place. I would have gotten the netcode working before any development on III was made.

I agree that crappy netcode could have a negative impact on the success of Arma3, but since they're intending to fix it soon I don't see why you're making such a fuss. Even if it did take them a full year to get it right, just in time for Arma3, what's the problem? It would still be on time.

I'm more worried about Arma2 right now - the sooner MP interpolation is implemented, the better. In my eyes, clientside interpolation and prediction is absolutely essential for any MP game, so they really should have implemented it on time for Arma2, if not earlier. But they didn't, and no one can change that, so I see no point in whining about it. Just let them do their thing.

[sickboy 13]

Actually I think the content bugs and simply missing because intentional left out features albeit a simple unit cfg fix would cure it (missing IHADSS in AH1Z comes to mind as ust ONE example) as well as removed features (some kind of "bugfixing" BI is doing more and more often) are far worse than MP performance.

Warping and Lag can already be "fixed" by better, more client and server friendly mission parameters. The 3rd party introduction of 24+ Player missions with high A.I. count was a bad idea and despite the limits are already visible some admins and mission makers still try to push it.

You can't make a FIAT perform like a Ferrari.

As usual, I wonder what you base your opinions on. Warping can be seen on missions with a single player, and a single group of AI units or tanks etc.

The proof is in the tickets about the problem incl the relations.

Content fixes only come with full patches, but there's a good chance BIS won't fix many small things in A2/OA. At the same time you can fix many of these things through very small and simple mods. You don't fix Engine issues like MP issues with mods or missions (at best you can try to workaround or improve it instead of amplify it), that needs fixing by BIS.

[domokun 515]

How did you come to that conclusion? See this post by Suma from last Wednesday. They're getting ready to release 1.60 in the next few days, barring any major regressions introduced in recent betas.

After that they'll be working on the MP fixes, which we will be testing in the betas. You think that will take a whole year? :rolleyes:

The fact that its been half a year since the 1.59 patch and the 1.60 still isn't released :D

[maddogx 13]

The fact that its been half a year since the 1.59 patch and the 1.60 still isn't released :D

I'm fully aware of that, as you know. ;)

Edited September 5, 2011 by MadDogX

[jw custom 56]

I've been playing some PvP lately with around 60 players and with a ping about 60ms and never experienced any warping, i have experienced it with AI quite often though!

Gotta edit that, i just played on a PR server with a ping on 63ms and i was having a lot of rubber band effect not to mention yellow/red broken chain!

[KeyCat 131]

BIS seems to be more interested in releasing new addons and expansion packs then fixing 4+ year old gamestopping issues...

Thats pretty harsh words about a game/sim developer that provides among the best (if not the best?) aftermarket support in this industry.

On top of that they let everyone who want's to participate in beta tests and give feedback, and yes they do listen if you can povide repros. No NDA's or other "paperwork" required - i.e no fuss, no muss.

That said I agree that the MP lag/warping (as well as some other stuff) needs work but as already said BIS is working on it.

/KC

Edited September 5, 2011 by KeyCat

[Atkins 10]

Sometimes the truth is harsh and cold.

It is indeed great that BIS is finally working on the engine issues that matter the most (to some) but it does not negate the past years that they were not working on it (or they were, unsuccessfully be that) but instead pushing out more content and expansion packs and whatnot...

I am more than eager to wait them to fix these main issues, and when they finally do, I will start (again) talking to my friends that they should look in to this cool game. Now I just can't do it (anymore) with my conscious cos so far i've got few friends to buy this game with all the cool videos and fancy pics, only to get them uninstall the whole thing after seeing how badly it behaves in online gaming.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Atkins

[TheRookie 0]

I experienced also warping etc since OFP, and somehow could live with it. But playing PR i realized it did that by only playing COOP. PvP though, i never played much, but with a fixed netcode ArmA would be a perfect game for that.

PR will bring new players and thats always good for BIS. I would by ArmA3 just for a fixed netcode. I guess they are capable of fixing it, they did it with the deadly motorcycle, if anyone recalls :)

I think a good network code would be a major improvement - right now the great possibilities of ArmA for MP gameplay are destroyed by that warping thing. PvP needs no "in-the-box" missions, it needs a good netcode - some good missiondesigners will do the rest.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Come on guys,arma is not a game like the others.

It's not easy to solve these problems,just keep positive attitude and stop whining.

I ve played few hours ago on XR DAO server using friendly parameters,but still had warping... (i was the only one on server)

[domokun 515]

Sometimes the truth is harsh and cold.

It is indeed great that BIS is finally working on the engine issues that matter the most (to some) but it does not negate the past years that they were not working on it (or they were, unsuccessfully be that) but instead pushing out more content and expansion packs and whatnot...

Have you stopped and thought about why BIS spent years working on new content rather than patching an already released product? Let me help you; new revenue streams, i.e. no cash, no development.

Sometimes the truth is harsh and cold.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 AM ----------

Sometimes the truth is harsh and cold.

It is indeed great that BIS is finally working on the engine issues that matter the most (to some) but it does not negate the past years that they were not working on it (or they were, unsuccessfully be that) but instead pushing out more content and expansion packs and whatnot...

Have you stopped and thought about why BIS spent years working on new content rather than patching an already released product? Let me help you; new revenue streams, i.e. no cash, no development.

Sometimes the truth is harsh and cold.

[domokun 515]

Sometimes the truth is harsh and cold.

It is indeed great that BIS is finally working on the engine issues that matter the most (to some) but it does not negate the past years that they were not working on it (or they were, unsuccessfully be that) but instead pushing out more content and expansion packs and whatnot...

Have you stopped and thought about why BIS spent years working on new content rather than patching an already released product? Let me help you; new revenue streams, i.e. no cash, no development.

Sometimes the truth is harsh and cold.

[Atkins 10]

I am fully aware why they indeed would do these things for just those reasons. Can't blame them for doing it, ............. but I still will >/

[tarabas 10]

the new beta patched solved the problem :):):) No more warping in arma!!huaaa

[-=seany=- 5]

Sensationalized posting anyone? It is better, but it's hardly solved. There is still plenty of warping

[bus 11]

BIS seems to be more interested in releasing new addons and expansion packs then fixing 4+ year old gamestopping issues...

I would agree with you on that and have felt the same in the past but there are other people on the team besides the engine designers/debuggers. Those artists/mission designers/audio engineers/etc have to do something while the programmers are debugging things.

What primarily concerns me is if ArmA3 get's released without BIS improving the warping in ArmA2:OA. I mean, how can they say the multiplayer is better in A3 if they haven't fixed it in ArmA2:OA? Unless the netcode for A3 is entirely brand new. Regardless, it seems like they're finally trying to put their finger on this warping issue so kudos to them for sticking with A2:AO and not abandaning it entirely to prepare for A3.

-Bus