3rd person view in MP : be or not to be? (voting)

[jw custom 56]

if that would be possible on public coop servers we wouldnt have a discussion here.

seriously, check arma 2 server browser and tell me how to find a proper veteran server with fitting difficulty settings.

Seriously, host your own server :idea:

I know it's a weird concept that the server owners(those who pay the bills) can decide which settings to play with....

[hund 0]

OK, so I gather that you're having difficulty finding a server that suits your specific needs. I am not going to tell you to go buy a server and run it as you want, because those things are expensive, you know? However, if the majority of servers aren't doing it your way, wouldn't that suggest that you're in the minority on this issue? Assuming that be the case, would it be considered fair for the minority (you, in this case) to dictate the majority (all the servers, apparently) how said servers are run?

just sayin' :D

And I vehemently disagree that the use of reticules, viewpoints and what have you, has anything whatsoever to do with how "seriously" you play the game.

EDIT:

As far as I know (and I might be wrong), the veteran and above difficulty settings already disallow 3rd person and a lot of other stuff. And even if it does not, the setting can be altered to do so. The reason why this is not being done must be because server admins are either unknowledgeable about settings, or they choose not to disallow 3rd person for whatever reason.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Hund

[woore 10]

Replacing corrent 3rd view camera by OTS camera (OTS, not _above_ head) is a decision may be suitable for all, 3rd users have an ability to see his actor, expand their field of view, etc., but they are will be unable to see above walls, buildings and other barriers. And I'll calm down.

Trying to find a compromiss. But it should be replaced, not added as option like "enabled/OTS/disabled". Otherwise nothing will be changed.

Hund, I've tryed to find any CTI server with disabled 3rd many times, and I failed (except 1 or 2 servers with password and 3-4 men). That's why I so angry.

PeterBitt +1

Seriously, host your own server :idea:

with 3,5 diggers on it, and I've explained why. Following your logic, better to buy and play another game.

Edited August 27, 2011 by woore

[PeterBitt 10]

Seriously, host your own server :idea:

no. (we heard this "argument" often enough)

this is so sick, it should be the other way around: in a simulation you should have more actual simulation servers on than amateur ones :(

this is so sick, in the forum for a simulation game the veteran gamers shouldnt be the minority :(

[jw custom 56]

no. (we heard this "argument" often enough)

Argument :confused: it's a simple suggestion/solution. So why won't you host your own server where you are the boss over the settings?

[woore 10]

Put your opinion about replacing current 3rd view by OTS view please.

Or we may start a new poll.

[dm 9]

Put your opinion about replacing current 3rd view by OTS view please.

zDnXkFVEQ0Y

As an optional alternative, sure. As a replacement no way.

[hund 0]

this is so sick, it should be the other way around: in a simulation you should have more actual simulation servers on than amateur ones :(

this is so sick, in the forum for a simulation game the veteran gamers shouldnt be the minority :(

It is what it is, Mr. Bitt. The online flow and ebb of the arma community is a strange and wonderful thing with a will unto itself. That, and BIS sees a lot more players coming into the game the more mainstream it gets. My best suggestion would be to roll with the punches and enjoy whatever arma gives you. Changing games isn't really an option, since there is no game like this out there, now is there? :D

@DM:

Yeah it should definitely be optional, maybe in the player profile or whatnot.

[liquidpinky 11]

this is so sick, in the forum for a simulation game the veteran gamers shouldnt be the minority :(

Define veteran gamers, I have been gaming since the ZX81 but still like to use third person view. So it isn't a veterans choice but more one of a certain type of gamer.

[hund 0]

I believe he means people who play with veteran settings.

[PeterBitt 10]

OK, so I gather that you're having difficulty finding a server that suits your specific needs. I am not going to tell you to go buy a server and run it as you want, because those things are expensive, you know? However, if the majority of servers aren't doing it your way, wouldn't that suggest that you're in the minority on this issue? Assuming that be the case, would it be considered fair for the minority (you, in this case) to dictate the majority (all the servers, apparently) how said servers are run?

just sayin' :D

sure, that is why iam not telling the devs to remove it completely :p

but a veteran difficulty wich does not allow amateur features like 3rd and crosshairs, would only be healthy for the game.

there would be more cadett servers online and make the amateurs happy, and there would be veteran servers online that make the experienced players happy.

[hund 0]

I prefer the term Cadet, since I am not an amateur anymore. In fact, I do believe I could slap your ass and call you Suzie in any game of arma, my good fellow! :D

In any case, I am not quite sure which difficulty settings allow 3rd person and which don't. Are you sure there is 3rd person in the veteran diffculty?

[jw custom 56]

sure, that is why iam not telling the devs to remove it completely :p

but a veteran difficulty wich does not allow amateur features like 3rd and crosshairs, would only be healthy for the game.

there would be more cadett servers online and make the amateurs happy, and there would be veteran servers online that make the experienced players happy.

So people who plays in 3rd person view are unexperienced amateurs...uhh i'm sure you have pissed off a few people around here :rolleyes:

Btw, one of the reasons that ArmA doesn't have the same number players as BF/COD etc. is because ArmA has a steep learning curve, not because of lack of servers with 3rd person view disabled.

[liquidpinky 11]

I prefer the term Cadet, since I am not an amateur anymore. In fact, I do believe I could slap your ass and call you Suzie in any game of arma, my good fellow! :D

In any case, I am not quite sure which difficulty settings allow 3rd person and which don't. Are you sure there is 3rd person in the veteran diffculty?

You can edit it the cfg to have third in veteran I believe.

It is still a null point as it can be disabled server side or through the mission.

Even veterans need third person, lets see you try to drive the BTR-90 turned in otherwise.

[PeterBitt 10]

So people who plays in 3rd person view are unexperienced amateurs...uhh i'm sure you have pissed off a few people around here :rolleyes:

at least i couldnt understand if a experienced player would be pissed to see a Veteran setting without 3rd & crosshair.

as i said earlier, the most people use these features not because they wouldnt be able to play without them, but just because it makes life easier.

if it wasnt implemented in the first place, no one would have asked for it.

or do you dont play battlefield because you have no 3rd implemented?

...my english is just not good enough to state my point properly, if i would talk german you would all agree to me :D

edit:

In any case, I am not quite sure which difficulty settings allow 3rd person and which don't. Are you sure there is 3rd person in the veteran diffculty?

3rd person view and crosshairs are enabled by default for veteran.

Edited August 27, 2011 by PeterBitt

[jw custom 56]

at least i couldnt understand if a experienced player would be pissed to see a Veteran setting without 3rd & crosshair.

If that "experienced" player joined a vet server with 3rd person disabled he/she would probably find another server or just live with it. You could do the same but i guess you running a server is not an option... why is that?

if it wasnt implemented in the first place, no one would have asked for it.

or do you dont play battlefield because you have no 3rd implemented?

I don't play with 3rd person enabled, i usually play on servers where it's disabled or disabled for infantry. Pretty simple, i avoid servers with it enabled or simply just play along in 1st person..... it's a GAME!

[NoRailgunner 0]

PeterBitt and woore you both still don't understand the meaning of "option" and "He who pays the piper calls the tune"? :rolleyes:

Still insisting that "mama" <insert developer/publisher> should care for your own realism/wishful thinking/daydreaming? While anyone who don't agree is just silly or a cheater?

Why you guys don't have the guts + balls to run your own server with your own "veteran" settings + missions and see how it fits? Guess its just easier to blame others for your own laziness, isn't it?

[PeterBitt 10]

Even veterans need third person, lets see you try to drive the BTR-90 turned in otherwise.

as it should be in a simulation: i cant use a BTR alone!

this is just another important point that you got there:

3rd person view allows one man alone to effectively use a tank.

in a tank you must have less field of view and situational awareness unless turned out!

a full crew has much more fun and atmosphere when playing a tank from the inside and not looking at it from the outside.

edit: ok yes, the BTR its impossible to handle in first person because of the bad model.

Edited August 27, 2011 by PeterBitt

[dmarkwick 261]

Woore, you don't understand the concept of logic. Also, although you profess to know what demagogy means, you are not able to see how your own argument is subject to it. You have many blindnesses.

But, if your logic dictates that you must play a more arcady game in order to not be subject to an optional feature, well there's your logic all spelled out for you :D

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I don't play with 3rd person enabled, i usually play on servers where it's disabled or disabled for infantry.

Problem is most of the public servers that run on Veteran have one or both of these enabled. For me personally, it ruins public games in that I spend my time and their bandwidth to join only to find the settings too easy (for what I'd expect on Veteran).

"Disabled for infantry" doesn't exist as a setting, hence it was one of the options in the poll. You can prevent it (and I do) in the mission itself.

Pretty simple, i avoid servers with it enabled or simply just play along in 1st person..... it's a GAME!

So are the so called arcade games, and even those doesn't allow 3rd person :) By brute force. However, and this is a big one - they don't have AI squad commanding either, which I agree 3rd may have some use.

Question: Should the system be built upon the following instead?

1) Server sets its "preferred" difficulties, which is in effect if mission doesn't specify.

2) Mission can override the preferred difficulties, on the fly and during play, on a per user basis (client script).

3) Server can override the mission difficulties by forcing individual settings (doesn't have to list all settings).

Means, I can choose the servers preferred settings, but allow mission to dictate whatever it want, except those specified in #3.

Would servers admins adhere to mission specific settings? Remains to be tested I guess.

Note that this is for all difficulty settings. In my mission, I could allow/disallow 3rd person on the fly based on vehicle type, being infantry. I could remove crosshairs for infantry while letting them be active for problematic weapons (A2 Javelin, A2 BMP3 side gunners). If server admin don't like these rules, he can either change mission or enforce his own override rules without affecting everything.

[PuFu 4591]

as it should be in a simulation: i cant use a BTR alone!

this is just another important point that you got there:

3rd person view allows one man alone to effectively use a tank.

in a tank you must have less field of view and situational awareness unless turned out!

a full crew has much more fun and atmosphere when playing a tank from the inside and not looking at it from the outside.

What he means is that you obviously have no idea that inside driver view for the BTR is borked

[dmarkwick 261]

So are the so called arcade games, and even those doesn't allow 3rd person :) By brute force. However, and this is a big one - they don't have AI squad commanding either, which I agree 3rd may have some use.

Question: Should the system be built upon the following instead?

1) Server sets its "preferred" difficulties, which is in effect if mission doesn't specify.

2) Mission can override the preferred difficulties, on the fly and during play, on a per user basis (client script).

3) Server can override the mission difficulties by forcing individual settings (doesn't have to list all settings).

Means, I can choose the servers preferred settings, but allow mission to dictate whatever it want, except those specified in #3.

Would servers admins adhere to mission specific settings? Remains to be tested I guess.

Note that this is for all difficulty settings. In my mission, I could allow/disallow 3rd person on the fly based on vehicle type, being infantry. I could remove crosshairs for infantry while letting them be active for problematic weapons (A2 Javelin, A2 BMP3 side gunners). If server admin don't like these rules, he can either change mission or enforce his own override rules without affecting everything.

Having an editor-set option would be another good feature yes. But I guess the issue would be: should missions have the ability to change server settings?

But, I guess that they already can to some extents, I'm pretty sure I've seen scripts that remove 3rd person abilities.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

3rd person can be enforced by mission because it can check players camera mode, so this is more of a hack. It doesn't touch the actual difficulty mode for that player (or mission). Domination has a setting for this.

I'm thinking more in the lines of difficultyEnabled and difficultyEnable [["difficultyname",value],["seconddifficultyname",value]] (new command). So if I make a mission based on AI squad command, I can ask player "how do you prefer to command"? Extended map info, or 3rd/tactical? I can also monitor where his AI is to prevent too much exploiting. Or allow it during movement but not near enemies, or pretty much whatever. Far too many servers have enabled weaponCursor. Try combining 3rd with crosshair on Chernarus and see the advantage you now get (after AI vs grass fix) - you can see the AI using 3rd, and you can aim accurately through dense grass which he no longer have any visual on.

Just trying to discuss the issue, not enforce anything. :) The polls that matter are those on DH; if 3rd and crosshair settings should be split between infantry and vehicles. It's a good enough scenario for me, but it does have potential problems depending on A3 features/config.

[jw custom 56]

Problem is most of the public servers that run on Veteran have one or both of these enabled. For me personally, it ruins public games in that I spend my time and their bandwidth to join only to find the settings too easy (for what I'd expect on Veteran).

Well if i can do it i'm sure you can aswell, so note down the servers that you like to save time next time you wanna play :)

"Disabled for infantry" doesn't exist as a setting, hence it was one of the options in the poll. You can prevent it (and I do) in the mission itself.

I'm aware this is done by simple scripting, for me thats acceptable to play with as some vehicles are (next to)impossible to drive in first person.

So are the so called arcade games, and even those doesn't allow 3rd person :) By brute force. However, and this is a big one - they don't have AI squad commanding either, which I agree 3rd may have some use.

And that has to do with ArmA :confused:

Crosshair/3rd person is optional, for god sake let people decide themself how they wanna play.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Nah, I've already given up (hacking and mod restrictions are also an issue). Last time I checked 6 Veteran servers irrc, with all of them having both 3rd and crosshairs enabled. 3rd annoys me. Crosshairs I simply can't cope with. Some Veteran (or even Regular) servers would have been more attractive if I could just set more difficult options for myself (but of course not easier than what the server says).

Yes I'm doing that 3rd trick in Domino for vehicle drivers, no other. Reason being impossible vehicle operations in some vehicles, and shitty dampening systems on bicycles, motorcycles, and ATVs.

Has to do with Arma as Arma and other action games are games. My argument is that Veteran should feel like Veteran, with 3rd, map (haven't seen this in use in a long time though), and crosshairs it fails badly. These are all locked out from Expert (you can only set 4 I think). Why is it such a big deal to remove 3rd from Veteran? I really don't get it. Why this need to run a Veteran server on difficulty options that are anything but Veteran?