3rd person view in MP : be or not to be? (voting)

[jw custom 56]

And other game developers, such as Crytek, Dice are dictators, they're forcing players to play without 3rd view, even if they want!

Well they are creating the games, they decide. The people who rents arma servers pay the bill, they decide.

Did I ask you, played you or not on a server? WHICH servers you playing at?

I play on a lot of servers, i don't have any specific servers. The server i played on tonight was ARMA2.RU -PvP- <AAS> and right now there's 24 players on it.

[dmarkwick 261]

BF2, CoD and all the rest, which are touted as arcade games, do not have a 3rd person option, yet ArmA and VBS2, which are not arcade games, has it. Ergo, 3rd person is not an arcade option.

Option.

Option.

Option.

[woore 10]

JW Custom, tx, now I have one idea. DMarkwick, do I need to explain, why is it demagogy, or you can understood yourself?

[maddogx 13]

JW Custom, tx, now I have one idea. DMarkwick, do I need to explain, why is it demagogy, or you can understood yourself?

If anything, I think you need to look up the definition of the word.

DMarkwicks post contains shows simple logical deduction. ;)

[dmarkwick 261]

Yeah, sure. And this server will be empty, because there is only a few skilled players who want to play without 3rd because for now Arma is full of kids because 3rd view. You don't want to read opponent's posts, aren't you?

Woore, your elitist attitude is defeating your logical conclusions: 3rd person is a server choice, and apparently (if I'm to believe you) most servers choose to allow it enabled, ergo, most people wish it. Yet you are trying to use that argument as evidence that it must be removed, by, lets see, what's that word.....

JW Custom, tx, now I have one idea. DMarkwick, do I need to explain, why is it demagogy, or you can understood yourself?

.....Demagogy. That's it.

Yes Woore, I'm well aware that you've been hopping from foot to foot using this "demagogy" word at every opportunity just waiting for the moment to explain to all us buffoons what exactly you mean, thus proving you are absolutely correct and that we all are absolutely incorrect. It's a fallacy on your part unfortunately.

Demagogy is described as appealing to the prejudices, emotions, fears, vanities and expectations of the voting public, which is exactly precisely what you are doing. I remain, as always, for the OPTION. Option is not subject to demagogy, removal of choice is.

[Haystack15 10]

No,

You take away 3rd person, you take away my reason for playing ArmA.

Plus this poll doesn't have an "Other" option. so I voted "Let it be" that is to let the admins decided.

[woore 10]

"appealing to the prejudices, emotions, fears, vanities and expectations of the public—typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist, populist or religious themes."

Wrong definition.

Demagogy is a set of oratorical and polemical techniques, which allows you to misleading an audience. In case of dispute - allows you to create an illusion of evidence your opinion by using logically incorrect arguments, which look logically correct at the first sight (mostly because most of people have characteristic for their society dogma, more or less, which was been called "Mind idols" by Francis Bacon).

In case of your post - wrong terminology (option cannot be arcade or non - arcade, arcade as adjective means primitive, and used only for games) and inverted causation (must be not "this option is non-arcade element because it used in a simulator", but game is a arcade/simulator because it has/doesn't have arcade elements. Arcade elements is the elements, whiches make a game more primitive. 3rd view makes a game more primitive in contrast with real life, which each simulator is trying to simulate. Therefore, 3rd view is arcade element. Arma's gameplay is based on many arcade elements, such as tab lock, radars on tanks, 3rd view, crosshairs, simply guided missiles, etc. Ergo, Arma is arcade).

Do you really think I have so weak logic to take your demagogy as logically based arguments?

Haystack15, 3rd view cannot be a reason to play any game or not. Wanna obvious proofs - check the previous discussion

Edited August 26, 2011 by woore

[Maio 293]

I voted let it be ... it's an option for the love of .... an option

[maddogx 13]

I voted let it be ... it's an option for the love of .... an option

Not that woore gives a shit about the poll. ;)

[PuFu 4600]

@woore: you obviously have a frustration. I can understand that. But asking for bis to remove an optional feature, rather than say, set it to OFF for veteran difficulty without the option to change it, or set it off by default (a lot of servers are running on default settings btw) for difficulties above normal, is laughable.

You come here and say: hey you know what, all the server admins are WRONG, because they have enable 3rd view on the servers that they own and pay for. It's just bollocks. Besides, you start from the presumption that a military sim GAME, cannot have this sort of feature because it is hardly realistic (i am so getting sick of this word by the day), which is far from the truth.

I for once couldn't care less of said feature, especially when competitive PvP games have it off, just the same with the few coop events i take part.

I suggest you look at the results of the poll, i find that those are very representative for this very community (veterans and new players alike)

Edited August 26, 2011 by PuFu

[dmarkwick 261]

"appealing to the prejudices, emotions, fears, vanities and expectations of the public—typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist, populist or religious themes."

Wrong definition.

Demagogy is a set of oratorical and polemical techniques, which allows you to misleading an audience. In case of dispute - allows you to create an illusion of evidence your opinion by using logically incorrect arguments, which look logically correct at the first sight (mostly because most of people have characteristic for their society dogma, more or less, which was been called "Mind idols" by Francis Bacon).

In case of your post - wrong terminology (option cannot be arcade or non - arcade, arcade as adjective means primitive, and used only for games) and inverted causation (must be not "this option is non-arcade element because it used in a simulator", but game is a arcade/simulator because it has/doesn't have arcade elements. Arcade elements is the elements, whiches make a game more primitive. 3rd view makes a game more primitive in contrast with real life, which each simulator is trying to simulate. Therefore, 3rd view is arcade element. Arma's gameplay is based on many arcade elements, such as tab lock, radars on tanks, 3rd view, crosshairs, simply guided missiles, etc. Ergo, Arma is arcade).

Do you really think I have so weak logic to take your demagogy as logically based arguments?

All of which is pure demagogy :D you're putting your argument as truth, when it is only opinion. That's what you simply cannot understand, the notion that what you think is only an opinion. And so you present it as absolute fact, in order to force a decision to go your way. You are trying to force a decision to remove an OPTION because YOU don't wish for people to have the OPTION.

Need I go on? :)

Now, what, exactly, is the purpose of this poll Woore?

Anyway. Option it is, and option it'll most likely stay.

[celery 8]

I see woore's point of 3rd person being a statistical gameplay detriment when it's on by default even on veteran difficulty, because there's always a chance that the admin doesn't realize or remember to set an appropriate difficulty level. The difficulty options should be much easier to set on a server, and the factory default settings should be such that experienced players won't have to tamper with them at all when starting a mission.

[Bee8190 10]

I already voted but i sure love polls...LMAO!!!

[woore 10]

Opinion may be right and may be wrong. My opinion is right, because it's proven by a logic. And if I don't see any info that my opinion is wrong, I suppose that it is right. And I saw only one argument - real argument - in favor of your opinion, and I've offered you a solution, DMarkwick

Next time use bigger letters for a word OPTION

About "most of people want it" - http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2010191&postcount=40

You're trying to move discussion from the topic, gentlemen

Edited August 26, 2011 by woore

[dmarkwick 261]

You never did answer what was the purpose of the poll.

[woore 10]

To know the most popular opinion about 3rd view in Arma community. Any questions?

[maddogx 13]

To know the most popular opinion about 3rd view in Arma community. Any questions?

So you do not believe that the most popular opinion in the community is the one the developers should go with?

[dmarkwick 261]

Woore, you posts are so full of logical fallacies and vanities that I am sure that any questions I ask that might pose you a problem will be simply a result of my demagogy :D

[nuxil 2]

why does did the OP make options in his poll. he clearly doesnt like options.

[woore 10]

So you do not believe that the most popular opinion in the community is the one the developers should go with?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2010191&postcount=40

Woore, you posts are so full of logical fallacies and vanities that I am sure that any questions I ask that might pose you a problem will be simply a result of my demagogy :D

Sure. You even cannot prove, where and why am I wrong, using a logic

[maddogx 13]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2010191&postcount=40

Irrelevant wall of rant.

1. Assuming your poll is representative of community opinion, the majority of players want the 3rd person option to stay.

2. BIS make the game for the players.

3. Therefore, if the majority of players want 3rd person, BIS should leave it in.

It's that simple.

[woore 10]

read again that "irrelevant wall of rant" to complete education. To understand, why the majority of players want 3rd person. It's simple

[maddogx 13]

read again that "irrelevant wall of rant" to complete education. To understand, why the majority of players want 3rd person. It's simple

Aside from the fact that your wall of rant is full of baseless assumptions ("Because 3rd view allows you to feel yourself like a god" :rolleyes:), the reason why people want 3rd person view is absolutely irrelevant. What matters is that they want it.

The only reason for BIS to remove this feature would be if the majority of their player base wanted it to be removed. Evidently this is not the case. :)

[nuxil 2]

[dmarkwick 261]

Sure. You even cannot prove, where and why am I wrong, using a logic

Woore, I will make exactly one attempt at refuting your logic.

Your opinion on gameplay can only be an opinion. Your preferred gameplay options are not the same as everyone else's.

Your problem already has a solution.

Your wall of rant is full of suppositions and opinion.

Denying the evidence of your own poll denotes an egotistical illogic thought process.

Suggesting that a choice represents demagogy whereas the removal of choice represents correctness denotes an egotistical illogic thought process.

*sigh* there's more, but really, I think I might be done with this most useless of threads :)