Design Discussion -- Movement and keybindings

[nkenny 1057]

Design Discussion -- Movement and keybindings

Lets talk about movement and keybindings in ARMA3. We've been promised new movement animations so thats not what I want to talk about. This is a thread specifically dealing with USER INTERFACE as it relates to ARMA3. Try to keep things civil and constructive.

Personally I'm a great fan of Ghost Recon. Now Ghost Recon didn't have the width and breath of Real virtualities engine, but it can't be denied that Ghost Recon had a slick interface.

Obvious improvements in user interface includes taking a page from the Battlefield series of games. Having a seperate tab/page for Infantry, vehicle, airplanes, and I guess underwater controls. Equally helpful is pop-up mouseover information and the removal (renaming) of ambigious controls (there are plenty)

My entry

Default movement ought to be a fast and smooth tactical walk. About as quickly as you can move while still keeping your weapon in a reasonable high or low ready stance. Equally I would like to see commonly used controls consolidated into robust and above all consistent menues. Having played the game since Operation Flashpoint I am quite familiar with the default AI control interface.

WASD - movement

Stance up

Stance down

Sprint

Shuffle/Stabilize weapon

A single button that deals with activating the environment. Such as:

- Dragging or carrying wounded soldiers

- Stepping over things

- Using Ladders

- Getting in and out of vehicles

Suggest: SPACE

A single button that deals with all personal admin. Including Maps, Inventory, and possibly subdividing/administrating your squad.

Suggest: TAB

The quick command we've come to know from Arma2.

Mouse for looking around

Mouse Wheel to affect Field of View (zoom in and zoom out)

-k

[metalcraze 290]

Stance up

Stance down

Oh crap - I'm being shot at! Hold on... Hold on... I'm going prone... First I'm standing, now I'm crouching... and now I'm... dead! yay!!

A single button that deals with activating the environment. Such as:

- Dragging or carrying wounded soldiers

- Stepping over things

- Using Ladders

- Getting in and out of vehicles

- Quick heal me, heal me!

- Hold on dude, first I need to stop stepping over you and getting into a vehicle next to you all the time

A single button that deals with all personal admin. Including Maps, Inventory, and possibly subdividing/administrating your squad.

This is so ridiculous, I can't even make a joke about it

[SFJackBauer 10]

Would the devs have the guts to break compatibility with the long-lived key and animation system of ARMA? :D

I think what you said make good sense. I would add:

- Keep the gun steadier while in the slow walking mode. Whoever walks with the muzzle drawing an 8 in the space ahead needs to take some lessons.

- Make the map integrated into the 3D world. The switching back and fort between the map, the "Receiving" screen and the 3D world is annoying.

- Get rid of the mouse scroll commands menu. Anything is better. Right now, the act of enter a vehicle could become the "Activate satchels" if you slip the finger...

- Give at least an option to turn off the crosshair and the FOV reduction you have when aiming down the sights. An option that would work even on multiplayer, regardless of server settings (if anything, you are taking a penalty for it).

Ermmm, better stop here or I would turn the thread into my pet peeve list :D

[rye1 21]

I like some of these ideas, I'd add to it the single button part:

You say 'carrying or dragging', maybe holding onto space could bring an interaction menu with two icons, clearly representing dragging or carrying by both the icon and writing underneath. Drag mouse to either end to select, e.g. left then let go to drag. Would be quick in combat.

[SFJackBauer 10]

Oh crap - I'm being shot at! Hold on... Hold on... I'm going prone... First I'm standing, now I'm crouching... and now I'm... dead! yay!!

Humm.. instance up and down already exists, so your point here is null...

- Quick heal me, heal me!

- Hold on dude, first I need to stop stepping over you and getting into a vehicle next to you all the time

Solution - activate the action only after holding the button for a second - meanwhile give visual feedback about the action to be executed, so you release the button, nothing happens. Solved.

This is so ridiculous, I can't even make a joke about it

You have other options. You can contribute to the topic in a constructive way.

[rye1 21]

For keybindings, I thought someone would have mentioned the firemode selector too, press F to select through a list including grenades to finally get to the M203. Shot. Dead.

Should be hold F -> Menu -> drag mouse to select or something. Not a bad idea anyway. You could even keep the 'click F' option and select through as well.

[metalcraze 290]

Humm.. instance up and down already exists, so your point here is null...

I wasn't the one suggesting it. It sounded more like 'replace the current perfect system'

Solution - activate the action only after holding the button for a second - meanwhile give visual feedback about the action to be executed, so you release the button, nothing happens. Solved.

So when I'm under fire and need to quickly step over that small fence I must come to it, stand there for a second while being stuffed with bullets and only then step over?

What's wrong with, you know, just pressing V?

You have other options. You can contribute to the topic in a constructive way.

The only thing that ArmA can possibly do well with is using a radial menu instead of a mouse-scroll menu with the same options there

No single-button dumbing downs - they will only create a mess like examples I gave above.

Should be hold F -> Menu -> drag mouse to select or something. Not a bad idea anyway. You could even keep the 'click F' option and select through as well.

Only if you click with the middle mouse button. LMB = the big chance of misfire.

Edited August 16, 2011 by metalcraze

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Am I the only one who wants it left alone? I like it, remap it if you dont.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Am I the only one who wants it left alone? I like it, remap it if you dont.

Give this man half a cookie.

I currently like everything except the action menu, which I only half-like, as it makes doing things fast a PITA.

[-FHA-Dynamo 0]

what i would love to see is the ability to switch your primary weapon from shoulder to shoulder. could just have that action integrated as part of leaning. lean right and you use your weapon on your right shoulder, where as if you lean left, you swap shoulders as to have better cover around a left corner.

i have been doing some tactical carbine training and we never lean a left corner with our rifles on our right side. it would be nice to see some gun fighter type of movements this time around. it would certainly change the dynamics of CQC and tactical maneuvers in general.

[NoRailgunner 0]

nomnom ... sorry no cookies anymore :D

Whats wrong with custom keybindings for actions eg open/close map or compass/GPS, radio... ?

Imho it would feel clunky if you have to press "SPACE" or "TAB" and select from a menu whatever you want instead of pressing just one (customisable) key.

Of course the command action menu could be more useful eg move the "open/close door" down and the "rearm" (or other supply) stuff up.

@[FHA]Dynamo using your weaker hand/side is only "good" for blind fire and this guy in the vid looks imo a bit too much like one of those "tacticool expert" posers. If BIS would implement such an animation without taking care of strong/weak points the game would become sooner or later a popcorn shooter.

[PuFu 4600]

The only thing i want changed regarding keybinds is the breaking the weapon selector from the firemodes.

[dmarkwick 261]

I already started an interface thread, but I guess another discussion helps to highlight to the devs new ideas :)

I'd say the single most useful option would be for the devs to open up the interface for easy customisation. That way a Darwinian process would gradually reveal the most appropriate/useful/popular GUIs.

Lose the contextual action listing. Trying to specify a particular order only to "accidentally" send a unit romping off to his doom happens too often for it to be an occasional glitch. Trying to chase the actual action command up & down the list as things wander around you is very annoying and unnecessary.

I know the current ArmA action selection is designed to be done mouse-free (so that movement & observation is unaffected I guess) but it needs a rethink. A radial control system (which I favour) necessarily involves using the mouse, but I think it needn't be a bad thing. Especially if the current system is retained in any case for those people who really don't wish it changed, but not all of us are expert piano players able to move, look and also select through complex submenu choices all at the same time. Occasionally I like to actually find cover, and make a better & quicker action selection using an appropriate interface.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

You can always do (I expect):

ZZ - Prone (double tap)

Z - Crouch

X - Stand Up

XX - Jump Over/Vault (double tap)

V - Optics, as it used to be in OFP, num 0 is awkward, hard to reach, because...

Shift V - Optics Mode (is on the same key).

Personally I use the following:

Z - Prone

X - Crouch

C - Stand Up

CC - Jump Over/Vault

So the QWE,ASD,ZXC keys deals with all kinds of movement interactions in all kinds of vehicles.

Other personal favorites:

< (left of z key) - hold for gps

<< - toggle gps

Left Ctrl - Hold breath. Not applicable in vehicles when you use it for command fire.

Tab - Reveal target.

Big point for me to remove these from rmb optics.

Left Shift - Movement speed mode.

Left Alt - Freelook.

A new key recognition type could be possible to implement: Press key (already in) and Hold key (new).

Other than that, I'd like to have two filter entries in the key assign menu. One where I can type in the command (like "optics") and show only those fields that have that (toggle optics, and optics mode because both have word optics), and one where I can type in the actual key (like "v") and show only those fields that have that (like v for toggle optics and shift v for optics mode since both contain the v qualifier).

Let's face it, the game is a mighty complex one (and needs to be to support what we need), and can be a daunting task to learn and customize setup for those new. Even as a pretty experienced user, trying to help others with key assign alternatives takes quite a bit of time since I haven't memorized the name of the command, and certainly not where it exist (since it isn't sorted alphabetically). With as many keys to setup as there is, these filters would be very helpful and speed things up greatly.

Action menu could be updated to be "safer" to use.

But the biggest problem I have are the number command keys. The system is overfilled already and can't be expanded to do new useful things if we wanted to (without getting into submenu hell). They need to think new here. I've suggested multiple 16 slot radials accessed by qualifier keys + rmb drag in the past, where a "radial" is either ring, diamond, or rectangular in shape based on most appropriate use. Formations "feel good" as a diamond, interactions maybe rectangular, and watch direction radial. The current system is exhausted and not configurable.

Lastly, something that needs looking into, is providing adequate feedback. If i.e. nothing else changes in the target menu, if I use mouse to scroll between entries, I should see a line going from selected unit (on screen) to the targeted unit because most of the time targeted unit will be hidden from me and I have really no idea what command I'm actually giving. Select units for interaction (i.e. rearm at) should draw a line from selected unit(s) to the point I'm pointing at, to get a visual verification he won't do something stupid.

[-FHA-Dynamo 0]

The only thing i want changed regarding keybinds is the breaking the weapon selector from the firemodes.

+1

i hate having to cycle through semi, auto, m203, grenade, smoke grenade, satchel.

should have a dedicated key just for the fire select on your primary. a key to cycle through grenades, and i wouldn't mind the having the satchel as a scroll menu item.

lets say F cycles fire mode, G cycles grenades. press G to switch to grenades, press again to change type of grenade. press F to get back to your primary.

as for movement key arrangement, WASD for basic movements, left shift and space bar for lean, that way you can lean and still work the WASD keys, instead of Q&E where you need to get off A or D to use.

R for main optic/sight T to toggle to backup Iron sights (SpectureDR/ACOG).

Z for reload, X for prone(also turn in), C for crouch(turn out), V for stand(x2 for eject from vehicle)

i personally use Q for switching from Primary to secondary weapons (from rifle to shoulder launcher, or pistol) and E as the USE/perform action key.

with this key set up, you can control your actions while still being mobile.

@[FHA]Dynamo using your weaker hand/side is only "good" for blind fire and this guy in the vid looks imo a bit too much like one of those "tacticool expert" posers. If BIS would implement such an animation without taking care of strong/weak points the game would become sooner or later a popcorn shooter.

how do you figure that? your optics dont work on the left side? i shoot from my left side all the time and im just as accurate as my right. as for the guy in the video being a poser, could be, but saying that just cause he's fat is kinda ignorant. what he is showing is a widely used and accepted action, granted he isn't quite elegant in his movements. i only picked that video because it was short and showed what i meant by transitioning. there are much better videos on youtube, but they are long.

for transitioning from right hand to left hand shooting, i much rather fire from my non-dominant hand around a left corner than expose most of my body to incoming fire. if it means that BIS add a bit of instability when shooting from your weak side, it's still better than standing in the open. and besides, trained gun fighters can shoot just as well left handed as right.

BIS should really watch some of the MagPul tactical carbine videos, and maybe even go out to a place that offers a course in gun fighting. the military here has been contracting instructors for gun fighter courses for our troops, as the military only teaches a soldier how to operate his weapon. gun fighting is a completely different skill that the guys over seas fighting every day are learning the hard way. i have already been seeing some of these methods being used by soldiers fighting in the middle east. when a soldier leans out a corner and a sniper is putting down accurate fire on his position, you can bet your ass he wont try to expose his body.

Edited August 16, 2011 by [FHA]Dynamo

[rangerpl 13]

How about keeping things simple:

Scroll wheel -> Action menu

Ctrl + Scroll wheel -> Select weapon (such as grenades, smoke, etc), use binoculars, use NVG, use map, use GPS.

This will free up the B, N and M keys for other uses.

The functionality of the Vault key should also be expanded. You should have the option to use it to try and climb over higher walls (at the cost of stamina) and climb through windows, etc.

[rallyolle 10]

climbing onto things would be useful, so you can climb ontop for example, a box, humve or a roofpart from a lower placed roof, etc.

a more proper, faster jump would also be useful, depending on your carry weight i guess.

A jump faster than stepping over ( V). but would also be ofcourse louder, more tiresome and would offset your aim more etc etc, like a real fkin jump.. your momentum could affect the distance you travel, you could now jump over a small ditch while sprinting or skip over from roof to roof where buildings are very close. And also play that game *dont touch the ground* on vehicles.. .w/E... REALISTIC JUMP/forward skip in additon to the stepover!

[pathetic_berserker 4]

nomnom ... sorry no cookies anymore :D

.

Grrrr

a more proper, faster )@^( would also be useful, depending on your carry weight i guess.

Say that word again and I'll be forced to pull out the gaffa tape and XL rip ties.

[SPC.Spets 21]

the same as Arma2 I dont want to learn 300 keys and combinations again, not to mention I only play with ACE2. The only key that comes to my mind now, is a separate button for grenade switch and fire modes

[Antioch 10]

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=14012

Surprisingly... You fall in love with that mod.

[b101_uk 10]

WASD for movement :rolleyes: is for abnormal people who haven’t learnt its best to use the curser keys for movement then have the mouse on the left of the keyboard while having your joystick on the right all ergonomically placed so you can easily use the joystick (flying) & mouse at the same time or to be able to switch seamlessly between any two without moving anything or siting unnaturally.

(I am right handed BTW)