Improvements to third person view?

[ziiip 1]

IMO the crosshair isnt that far off in third person to impede effectiveness at shorter ranges, and you shuld use the iornsight mode for larger distances.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Have to agree with Pufu on this one.

Have to disagree with that one. For people who can't afford to buy 2 more monitors, it is needed for better situational awareness. For some reason, sound localization is very difficult in ArmA 2. Plus as an added benefit you get to see your guy. :cool:

Edited August 1, 2011 by Big Dawg KS

[dmarkwick 261]

For some reason, sound localization is very difficult in ArmA 2.

It's because viewblock geometry is also sound occlusion geometry.

[PuFu 4598]

Have to disagree with that one. For people who can't afford to buy 2 more monitors, it is needed for better situational awareness.

I never said the answer is buy 2 more monitors, and eventually a gfx card to support them all. I just pointed out that awareness in 1st person is more than possible.

That said the thread is about improvements in 3rd person view...and i doubt you ppl saying how important it is as a feature (that is something i agree with) are actually using it during a MP game for instance, in an actual firefight

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I never said the answer is buy 2 more monitors, and eventually a gfx card to support them all. I just pointed out that awareness in 1st person is more than possible.

That said the thread is about improvements in 3rd person view...and i doubt you ppl saying how important it is as a feature (that is something i agree with) are actually using it during a MP game for instance, in an actual firefight

Considering I don't play MP, I do use it alot during firefights. But as I said earlier there's really nothing that needs improving/changing.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@DMarkwick: And yet other games has seen the light and not even include it. I.e. FarCry and OFP2. More monitors give a realistic improved situational awareness, and I won't object to that (I play with one and do just fine, and I won't complain that others have better equipment than me). If you play in a team you don't even need that a wide scan sector, the normal 80-90° is fine. But 3rd person allows you to see things without putting yourself at harms way, and for a "realistic shooter", there is absolutely nothing right about that. Like I said, you can hear a tank, but you can't tell which way it is "looking" (it's turrets) without peeking out yourself. Using 3rd person to peek over the fence and call it "increased situation awareness", I mean, what's up with that? You can't get that awareness in real life either without looking, and that involves putting yourself at risk while doing so.

Note that currently I tend to allow 3rd person for vehicle drivers, but once TAKOS's ability to move head around in a vehicle is implemented, that will be gone too.

The only place I see 3rd person/tactical view usable, is when playing commander or squad leader for AI units, so it does have its use in a single player campaign. But for me, 3rd person and crosshairs have completely ruined everything that used to be good about MP gaming.

[dmarkwick 261]

I don't care what other games do, in any case I get the feeling that if I propose 3rd person because X game did it, it'd be denounced as arcadey. Why do you imagine 3rd person exists in OFP, ArmA, and ArmA2? If you imagine that you fight on a battlefield with a cardbox box over your head to be realistic, then I suggest realism isn't about what you deny people, it's about replacing what the PC naturally deprives you of.

Like I said, as soon as I can peek without getting up onto my knees/standing up/lollipopping my position away, then maybe it'd be a fair comment.

But, it's an old argument. For a lot of people, realism is purely take, never give.

Edited August 1, 2011 by DMarkwick

[Big Dawg KS 6]

But, it's an old argument. For a lot of people, realism is purely take, never give.

I would say that for a lot of people here, realism is an absolute concept. It is my opinion however that there are many levels of realism (and different types of realism) and at times it is necessary to leave behind some of the details of reality to preserve the overall experience.

Without additional hardware it is impossible to give players a completely realistic FOV from a single perspective. Playing with tunnel vision can be more unrealistic for some than playing with additional perspectives to compensate for that loss.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Big Dawg KS

[dmarkwick 261]

I would say that for a lot of people here, realism is an absolute concept. It is my opinion however that there are many levels of realism (and different types of realism) and at times it is necessary to leave behind some of the details of reality to preserve the overall experience.

Without a lot of expensive/hi-tech VR equipment it is impossible to give players a completely realistic FOV from a single perspective. Playing with tunnel vision can be more unrealistic for some than playing with additional perspectives to compensate for that loss.

Heh, yeah realism arguments go round & round:

X: "OMG, why is there a HUD telling me my leg is injured? I don't have a HUD in real life"

Y: "In real life, my leg is really hurt, how else do I know if my leg hurts in the game?"

X: "It's simple, you look down at your legs so you can see the texture"

Y: "Um.... just like in real life?......."

Whatever :)

But to get back on to topic, the 3rd person might benefit from having a zoom multiplier, so I get extra zoom out and in. (I use TrackIR so leaning forward or back is how I zoom).

[woore 10]

My suggestions about how to improve 3rd person view

In case of infantry:

1) Disable it

2)Lock the ability to enable it in configs

3)Kill it with fire

Reason: we don't have 3rd person view even in arcade Battlefield, it's a cheat and we should not play games with built-in cheats online

Edited August 8, 2011 by woore

[PeterBitt 10]

yep, best improvement for 3rd person view indeed is to get rid of it.

now that we have RTT mirrors (and hopefully completely modeled interiors of vehicles) i dont even want this for vehicles.

... dont even want it for arma 2, its so bad how many servers have this arcarde feature enabled :(

3rd person view = imersion killer and cheatmode.

[metalcraze 290]

Third person allows you to see enemies behind walls and around corners without exposing yourself. What more "improvement" do you want?

[Bee8190 10]

My suggestions about how to improve 3rd person view

In case of infantry:

1) Disable it

2)Lock the ability to enable it in configs

3)Kill it with fire

Reason: we don't have 3rd person view even in arcade Battlefield, it's a cheat and we should not play games with built-in cheats online

I absolutely disagree, I'm playing on 22'' monitor and it feels like i am looking trough scope or something all the time, you have absolutely no situational awarness whatsoever and when playing aginst AI you're pretty much loosing the only advantage you have; situation under control and being aware at all times what are your surroundings.

Now add that AI has the ability see trough grass ( happened to me a lot of times) and it brings me to conclusion that i am not the one who cheats...( unless the Ai skills are set to really dump)

As someone already stated - if you consider 3th person as cheating DONT USE IT, nobody is forcing a player to play with 3th enabled

Whats all the hassle about it anyways?:j:

[woore 10]

Oh yeah, of course you have a lot more situational awarness with 3rd view, what unexpected surprise! Even more in IRL. It feels like you're looking trough scope - write to dev to expand a field of view. 3rd person is a cheat, even arcade FPS don't have so nice feature

[dmarkwick 261]

*sigh*

3rd person can already be disabled. And it's not cheating if:

Everyone has the same power

Playing single-player

I can see the point in disabling for PvP but really, just allow people to play how they like.

[PeterBitt 10]

... nobody is forcing a player to play with 3th enabled ...

unfortunately the server admins do, and its not few of them.

ok I must not use it, i can just let myself get owned by people that magicaly know exactly where iam whilst i have no clou that they are even there.

"dont use it if you dont like it"

people use implemented features because they are implemented! see the many youtube videos with 3rd person view even in the clan videos, and the many many servers with it enabled.

but if it wasnt implemented in the first place (since OFP), no one would have ever asked for it!

apart from the (indiscussable) negative affect on gameplay, its a major immersion and atmosphere killer in my eyes.

you just leave your skin and look over your own shoulder and there is no way to actualy feel like its YOU there on the battlefield but just one bot that you control.

skyrim and the new deus ex also did epic fail with the takedowns or cover systems that will always switch you in 3rd person view even if you play in first person - look at the FarCry 3 videos you bums, thats immersion!

Edited August 9, 2011 by PeterBitt

[PuFu 4598]

rent/buy a server and set it up as you please....

[kylania 567]

apart from the (indiscussable) negative affect on gameplay, its a major immersion and atmosphere killer in my eyes.

And I feel entirely the opposite about it. You play on your floating head camera pvp server where you pwn noobs with blinders on and I'll play in my co-op 3rd person servers where I can watch my team move as a team.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

It feels like you're looking trough scope - write to dev to expand a field of view.

I guess you don't understand how FOV works... :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 08:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 PM ----------

but if it wasnt implemented in the first place (since OFP), no one would have ever asked for it!

Yea, I'm pretty sure I would have. Other comparable (and I use that word losely) games back then did have 3rd person at least for vehicles (Battlefield being the most obvious). And the of use it gives editors/modders is irreplaceable.

I can't understand what you're getting anrgy at; the only ones at fault are either yourself (just don't use it) or the people who run the servers you play on. And if you can't enjoy those MP games with 3rd person enabled then chances are you're not going to enjoy them period.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Big Dawg KS

[woore 10]

rent/buy a server and set it up as you please....

Of course. Maybe I you suggest me to buy the Bohemia Studio and explain them, how to make good MP games? Admins can disable it, of course, but 99,99999999999% of servers are staying with enabled 3rd view, because:

1) Admins are noob too;

or

2) Players join to the server, and leave it with phrases like "Oh, there is no cheats 3rd view, I gonna leave". And don't tell me this means that people wants 3rd view and will not buy Arma without it. Yes, fatal noobs will not, but more real players - will buy. I know customer's psychology well.

Military simulator with arcade things for children like TAB lock and 3rd view for infantry. Arma with them is MORE arcade, then CS, COD and BF. Rediculous.

You play on your floating head camera

Do you know you can decrease it to 0? And you have floating camera even in Crysis, and you can't change it there.

If everyone have the same opportunities, it doesn't mean that there is no cheating, it means that everyone are using legal cheat.

PeterBitt +1

In campaign - I think BIS dunno, why they shouldn't enable 3rd in campaign, they need to learn some expirience of other game developing studios. But anyway, SP is SP, they may give for players even 5th person view with pointers to enemy, if they want.

In vehicles - if we will have properly working mirrors and vehicle interiors - disable 3rd view

Edited August 9, 2011 by woore

[Militant1006 11]

woore I agree with most of what you said, in my opinion 3rd person is invaluable at the moment because it is the only way to check behind a vehicle, but as infantry, it does really ruin the experience quite a bit, such as, when there are enemies in a compound (lets say this is coop), you want a small team to locate the enemies when they enter and kill them, they simply look over the wall when AI can not, then they enter and go straight for where the AI was spotted.

I think A3 has the potential to remove 3rd person view, or at least make it limited to vehicles. Another advantage though I find with 3rd person view, at least for CQB, is when the player turns around it seems to be much quicker, and also the camera stops instantly when you stop moving your mouse, in 1st person it seems to swing a bit further, I think it is so simulate weapon weight.

[woore 10]

As infantry - it's cheat. Period. Here is more than enough arguments why is it cheat. And this time I'll think twice, buy the Arma 3, or not, if there will be old controls system, tab lock, no get in anims and 3rd view for infantry in MP. I don't have so much money to spend them for unfinished product

[dmarkwick 261]

Of course. Maybe I you suggest me to buy the Bohemia Studio and explain them, how to make good MP games? Admins can disable it, of course, but 99,99999999999% of servers are staying with enabled 3rd view, because:

1) Admins are noob too;

or

2) Players join to the server, and leave it with phrases like "Oh, there is no cheats 3rd view, I gonna leave". And don't tell me this means that people wants 3rd view and will not buy Arma without it. Yes, fatal noobs will not, but more real players - will buy. I know customer's psychology well.

Military simulator with arcade things for children like TAB lock and 3rd view for infantry. Arma with them is MORE arcade, then CS, COD and BF. Rediculous.

So everyone is either a noob or a "real player". LOL. Gone is the sentiment that perhaps more people like 3rd person than don't?

Isn't 3rd person option tied in with difficulty settings? I was going to suggest that 3rd person is disabled by default, but not removed, but I think it might already be at the higher settings. I think, my friend, that you aren't joining the right servers for you.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

It's that blasted "less is more" argument again.

[mrcash2009 0]

IMHO I dont give a shit whether BIS make it more improved as OFP suggests or not because it will bring more players to the game if they do who like that style (of which will run and gun and go play with each other .. can you smell the bias and stereotyping :) ) and I will still play without it and turn it off and play on servers that dont have it enabled.

I was only ever using 3rd person myself to either go "oooh look how nice those units are and the view" ... or in helis to get a good view, but i never use it for shooting and infantry though. Up until about a year ago I turned it off in options to stop relying on it. That said, do I think its bad for others ... no, just choices, that's Arma for ya :)

Edited August 9, 2011 by mrcash2009